$1,511,000.00 to be lost or not?

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

This has been trending since yesterday, you can see the video of the live trade on this X tweet https://x.com/i/status/2086182660020355105

A perpetual trader took a short position on Bitcoin with full margin of $1,511,000 and the craziest part here is that he used 40x leverage but cross margin and the liquidation price for this position is if Bitcoin price gets to $65,313, he will be liquidited.

He is already in a floating lose of -$723, 980, the solution here is to either top up this account to push the liquidation price farther away or risk losing his capital once Bitcoin price hits $65, 313.  Is this a behavior or a pro trader or a gambler?

Bitcoin price is currently at $65,113, just $200 to this trader's liquidation price.

[Oshosondy]

Another example of James Wynn. Definitely he is a gambler.

James Wynn was using 40x and he always get his money liquidated, blaming manipulation even while trading bitcoin, but failing to know that he was gambling.

40x leverage is too much for bitcoin trading.

[Moreno233]

This story is that of a rich guy that don't know what to do with his money so he decided to gamble them away. 40X leverage is suicidal, maybe he got some motivation to either "go hard or go home".

He will get liquidated at the price of $65,400 which is does not take more than an hour to happen in a volatile asset like Bitcoin. If not that such trader is wealthy, he would have been sweating through his ass at the moment.

[HelliumZ]

40x leverage is too much for bitcoin trading.

But if the guy is trading at 57× leverage, can you guess how much risk he has taken? I think if the guy wants to stop the liquidation, he will definitely have to add more Bitcoin and I am not sure if he has been able to do that yet. However, trading with so much risk cannot be a healthy brain activity. In fact, futures trading is more dangerous than gambling and the chances of losing your capital forever are higher than gambling. So, taking so much risk in all these activities should not have been done.

[Powerjumboo]

This has been trending since yesterday, you can see the video of the live trade on this X tweet https://x.com/i/status/2086182660020355105

A perpetual trader took a short position on Bitcoin with full margin of $1,511,000 and the craziest part here is that he used 40x leverage but cross margin and the liquidation price for this position is if Bitcoin price gets to $65,313, he will be liquidited.

He is already in a floating lose of -$723, 980, the solution here is to either top up this account to push the liquidation price farther away or risk losing his capital once Bitcoin price hits $65, 313.  Is this a behavior or a pro trader or a gambler?

Bitcoin price is currently at $65,113, just $200 to this trader's liquidation price.

I was monitoring the price of Bitcoin from an exchange and saw that the price of Bitcoin had reached $65,300. Perhaps this person did not lose his money for just $13. Currently, I have monitored the price of Bitcoin on that exchange and saw that it is at $65,200. I think that if this person does not add liquidation, he could lose all his money in a short time. If he adds liquidation, it is possible to save his money. However, in my opinion, this person may be addicted to gambling. Otherwise, he would never have used 40 times leverage like this and used such a huge amount of money to trade. Either he is addicted to gambling, or he made such trading decisions while drunk.

[nelson4lov]

Definitely going to be margin-called once people that likes to stop-hunt knows that his liquidation price is not far off. At this point, I don't think the trader will close the trade since its basically gone at this point unless we get a bad news by monday that nukes the Bitcoin chart for his benefit. Otherwise, he's definitely going to lose it.

40x leverage is too much for bitcoin trading.

Some will consider it too small. I have personally seen people use 100x to 500x leverage when it comes to Bitcoin. Bitcoin hasn't been that volatile in recent times so people just assumes that it would be hard for them to get liquidated if bitcoin doesn't do wild swings anymore.

20x to 40x leverage is around the normal ranges I have seen for Bitcoin. But much lower lev for altcoins.

[Karl_3000]

Some will consider it too small. I have personally seen people use 100x to 500x leverage when it comes to Bitcoin. Bitcoin hasn't been that volatile in recent times so people just assumes that it would be hard for them to get liquidated if bitcoin doesn't do wild swings anymore.

20x to 40x leverage is around the normal ranges I have seen for Bitcoin. But much lower lev for altcoins.

Are you serious with what you are saying? Because what you are saying is not right to me. If you want to go beyond 5x on exchanges, you will see a warning that higher leverage than 5x is highly risky.

Instead of him to hodl his bitcoin and let it yield profit in the next bull run.

I also see traders going for 40x to be gambling.

[Gozie51]

Bitcoin price is currently at $65,113, just $200 to this trader's liquidation price.

The price of bitcoin is about $65,250, so I think he is probably hodling his purchase till this time. If he has money to push in on an existing losing trade order and see if he can be patient for the account to come up back then I would simply suggest he exit the trade and add it up with the $200 left, he can then start a fresh trade after learning his lesson of not using such high leverage of 40x again.

[nelson4lov]

Some will consider it too small. I have personally seen people use 100x to 500x leverage when it comes to Bitcoin. Bitcoin hasn't been that volatile in recent times so people just assumes that it would be hard for them to get liquidated if bitcoin doesn't do wild swings anymore.

20x to 40x leverage is around the normal ranges I have seen for Bitcoin. But much lower lev for altcoins.

Are you serious with what you are saying? Because what you are saying is not right to me. If you want to go beyond 5x on exchanges, you will see a warning that higher leverage than 5x is highly risky.

Instead of him to hodl his bitcoin and let it yield profit in the next bull run.

I also see traders going for 40x to be gambling.

During the 10/10 market crash last year, there was a whale called the white whale that was very close to hitting $100m in PnL from trading onchain on hyperliquid and other perp dexes like Drift Protocol on solana (which has been hacked btw). He was trading with similar leverage and he wasn't the only one. The last time I checked, these are the official leverage limits on hyperliquid:

Code:

 SOL is 20x, 40x BTC and 25x ETH

So the whale being talked about in this thread is likely maxxing out Hyperliquid's leverage on Bitcoin. On the matter of gambling, people use leverage all the time not just in crypto but in US stocks, japenese stock market, forex, etc. It might surprise you to know that some traders like as much leverage as they can get.

[BitMaxz]

What exchange does this guy use? It looks like the guy has two orders, spot and futures; there's a possibility even his future order got liquidated. He earns from funding fees while he can sell the spot order. So there's no loss here and the advantage he earns from funding fees.

Look at his capital. I believe he is doing arbitrage here, buying on the spot market while shorting on prep to take advantage of funding fees.

[logfiles]

The higher the leverage, the more it looks like pure gambling 

However, we can not know how deep the pockets are of the person who opened the position. One could say that they could just be doing it for fun as the $1.5M is just pocket change to them. So even if they lost it, I just open another and then another and so on.

[OsaiEmma]

What exchange does this guy use? It looks like the guy has two orders, spot and futures; there's a possibility even his future order got liquidated. He earns from funding fees while he can sell the spot order. So there's no loss here and the advantage he earns from funding fees.

Look at his capital. I believe he is doing arbitrage here, buying on the spot market while shorting on prep to take advantage of funding fees.

Yeah he used 50% on both spot and perp, but can funding fee cover that loss if he eventually lost in the perp? I think it's not worth it, his risk tolerance is really high. If he had used at least 10x since he is arbitraging with spot and taking advantage of funding fees; although 10x is still to high but, extending his liquidation price with a lower leverage would have guaranteed him a better position. I believe there is a possibility for price to go to 63k; right now, it is approaching a major resistance and I have this feeling it will be pushed back to a much lower price. So using that crazily high leverage while arbitraging is just putting yourself in an unnecessary disadvantage.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

Some will consider it too small. I have personally seen people use 100x to 500x leverage when it comes to Bitcoin. Bitcoin hasn't been that volatile in recent times so people just assumes that it would be hard for them to get liquidated if bitcoin doesn't do wild swings anymore.

This is crazy and it will be even crazier if someone is using such kind of high leverage meanwhile the possibility of being liquidated is just  1 or 5 PIPs (price interest point) away from the trader's entry price.
The max leverage on Bybit is 100x, I think on binance it's around 120x I can't remember correctly because I have deleted the app from my phone, there is this other exchange I'm also using Lbank, the max leverage on Bitcoin 200x, this is completely gambling in my opinion and if exchange allows such high leverage, they probably want you to lose your money.

20x to 40x leverage is around the normal ranges I have seen for Bitcoin. But much lower lev for altcoins.

Not at all, I don't see it as a normal range but rather I consider 5x or 10x as normal depending on your Margin size, it can give a wider liquidation price compare to using 20x and above.

What exchange does this guy use? It looks like the guy has two orders, spot and futures; there's a possibility even his future order got liquidated. He earns from funding fees while he can sell the spot order. So there's no loss here and the advantage he earns from funding fees.

Look at his capital. I believe he is doing arbitrage here, buying on the spot market while shorting on prep to take advantage of funding fees.

It looks like a perpetual DEx but I don't know the exact one.  Yes, he also have a pending order in spot option but the funding fees I'm seeing there was just $25k+, if maybe he gets Liqdated I think he still loss some money despite having spot order that he can sell to make profit, that would just be a compensation for the perpetual loss (I thinking, if he wins the perpetual trade and also make profit from the sport  order, that's double win but not same when he wins one and lose the other). I could be wrong, but you can throw more light.

[Negotiation]

In my opinion, trading with 40x leverage on a highly volatile asset like bitcoin is extremely risky and akin to gambling. If the price of bitcoin drops to $65,400 and the trader is liquidated, then a negative change of just 2.5% in value will wipe out his entire capital or margin. It is quite common for bitcoin to experience such a 2-3% change in a matter of minutes. Therefore, closing the trade reduces the stress rather than incurring a large loss and leaves capital for the next trade.

[RGBTC]

Unfortunately, why wait until you have such a large balance just to become an idiot trader? A 40x leverage is typical of a compulsive gambler.

Bitcoin price is currently at $65,113, just $200 to this trader's liquidation price.

The price of bitcoin is about $65,250, so I think he is probably hodling his purchase till this time. If he has money to push in on an existing losing trade order and see if he can be patient for the account to come up back then I would simply suggest he exit the trade and add it up with the $200 left, he can then start a fresh trade after learning his lesson of not using such high leverage of 40x again.

You haven't read the context; this trader is sitting on a floating loss on his short position, and if the price rises another $200, he will be liquidated.

[abel1337]

This is just a gamble. Not too many has the balls to do a 40x leverage with a margin that high. He will either become a legend or become the next James Wynn.

This kind of risk tolerance is just absurd. I myself don't have the balls to try leverage trading with that kind of money.  Seeing a 700k floating loss would drive me crazy LOL. It's a rich mans game at that point.

[Gozie51]

The price of bitcoin is about $65,250, so I think he is probably hodling his purchase till this time. If he has money to push in on an existing losing trade order and see if he can be patient for the account to come up back then I would simply suggest he exit the trade and add it up with the $200 left, he can then start a fresh trade after learning his lesson of not using such high leverage of 40x again.

You haven't read the context; this trader is sitting on a floating loss on his short position, and if the price rises another $200, he will be liquidated.

I read and understood the post and the condition he was and as such, I gave my own 2 cent suggestion. What I was driving at was that since he had balance of $200 left, he can mitigate on the floating loss by calling off the running trade and wait for another trade because to add more funds to the existing losing trade is quite as gambling, he doesn't have control of his order anymore as the market has proved him wrong. So he can as well lose the trade or become lucky if the price reverts.

However, with the scenario so far, maybe he lost the trade eventually if he didn't add more funds to it giving how much balance he had ($200) because 2/3 hours after his post, the price of bitcoin touched the roof of $65,463,23 which will probably wipe his $200 balance from $65,113. That is to say, high - current price at the time of post - balance = $65,463 - $65,113 + $200 = $150. So, about $150 from my calculation is what the price would have reached ahead of his total fund to cut him off. That is, if he didn't add extra fund, $150 above his total fund would have been where price will get to before reverting. That would have been very painful because after that spike around 10pm yesterday, the price has continued to drop.

Thus, I believe he could come up here to share his experience and how he took such a huge 40x leverage risk.

[Stepstowealth]

He is already in a floating lose of -$723, 980, the solution here is to either top up this account to push the liquidation price farther away or risk losing his capital once Bitcoin price hits $65, 313.  Is this a behavior or a pro trader or a gambler?

More like gambling because I don't think there's anything professional about this because to the best of my understanding and to what I've read here any good trader needs to be able to manage their risk properly and to me it seems like this trading person we are discussing did not actually taking to cognizance risk management to help them manage the losses they will make and not this kind of big loss. It is a shame to have this amount and then have to lose it all to a bad trading decision. Sometimes bad trading habits like this do not just start one day, it is a way the trader has been trading, taking this kind of risk, and it was working for him until this very time. You are lucky if a bad trading practice works once for you, you do not need to try it over and over again.

[Issa56]

Some will consider it too small. I have personally seen people use 100x to 500x leverage when it comes to Bitcoin. Bitcoin hasn't been that volatile in recent times so people just assumes that it would be hard for them to get liquidated if bitcoin doesn't do wild swings anymore.

20x to 40x leverage is around the normal ranges I have seen for Bitcoin. But much lower lev for altcoins.

Are you serious with what you are saying? Because what you are saying is not right to me. If you want to go beyond 5x on exchanges, you will see a warning that leverage than 5x is highly risky.

The trader knows the risk which he is taking, so am sure he will ignore the warning. Some people are just so desperate to make money, and that’s why some of them do lose big whenever they are trading. Even if bitcoin is not so volatile currently, I don’t still encourage people to make use of high leverage whenever they are trading because of the risk involved in it. We should always learn how to properly manage our risk whenever we are trading.

Instead of him to hodl his bitcoin and let it yield profit in the next bull run.

Some people that involve themselves in leverage trading are just people desperate to make quick money from trading, and that’s why they do use high leverage. For me I don’t always support leverage trading, I prefer to trade on spot, because I know if bitcoin price drops, I will just have to hold, and the price is going to bounce back with time, I have nothing to panic about because I won’t be liquidated.

I also see traders going for 40x to be gambling.

I can’t even imagine myself use 40X leverage whenever am trading, the risk is just too high.

[BitMaxz]

Yeah he used 50% on both spot and perp, but can funding fee cover that loss if he eventually lost in the perp? I think it's not worth it, his risk tolerance is really high. If he had used at least 10x since he is arbitraging with spot and taking advantage of funding fees; although 10x is still to high but, extending his liquidation price with a lower leverage would have guaranteed him a better position. I believe there is a possibility for price to go to 63k; right now, it is approaching a major resistance and I have this feeling it will be pushed back to a much lower price. So using that crazily high leverage while arbitraging is just putting yourself in an unnecessary disadvantage.

Well, with the current balance on spot, yes, it won't cover your losses, but we aren't sure if this is only one account; I mean, he might also have another account and buy from other exchanges.

Or the other option is I think he is going to deposit some amount, since this is a cross-type margin; having extra funds deposited will increase his liquidation. while taking advantage of funding fees. Or I think selling his Bitcoin from spot and transferring it to futures will increase the liquidation. I am sure he is going to do that to get his position more breathing room.
Recently, the price hit his liquidation price, but there is no update yet on X if he lost this trade. So I believe he deposited more or sold his bitcoin from spot to support his current shorting position.