Do institutional buying and selling really change anything

[Odusko]

Another news alart that micro Strategy are selling some large amounts of their bitcoin holdings, this can make mainstream headlines news, but does it really change anything in terms of bitcoin market price reactions both in the long term or short term basis.
 https://x.com/i/status/2086785757620945349

[Oshosondy]

Do not worry, they will still buy bitcoin again. They are Treasury holder, you should expect this to happen.

Since the company started this STRC, I know this will happen. We are going to later know Strategy plan, but I think they have long term plan for bitcoin buying.

The amount sold is big, but it is small to their total bitcoin holding.

[Free Market Capitalist]

Another news alart that micro Strategy are selling some large amounts of their bitcoin holdings, this can make mainstream headlines news, but does it really change anything in terms of bitcoin market price reactions both in the long term or short term basis.

Strategy's trades are OTC, so they do not impact the market. What can have an impact, however, are the announcements it makes, as was the case with the first symbolic sale of a small amount of Bitcoin earlier this year.

Do not worry, they will still buy bitcoin again. They are Treasury holder, you should expect this to happen.

Since the company started this STRC, I know this will happen. We are going to later know Strategy plan, but I think they have long term plan for bitcoin buying.

The amount sold is big, but it is small to their total bitcoin holding.

Reading that, I'm not surprised it was written by you, because I remember your knowledge on the subject is quite limited, but don't take it personally. It's common on the forum to talk about Strategy or STRC as if people know what they're talking about when, in reality, they don't have even the most basic understanding.

To conclude, in response to the question of whether institutional trades influence the market, my answer is yes—but for the worse for us. Bitcoin has become “Wall Street-ized,” and it’s going through the same thing that happened with gold back in the day: the price isn’t determined purely by the supply and demand of actual Bitcoin.

[rbynxx]

The only thing that will surely get attention are the critics behind Michael or Strategy I guess but I think the market will just absorb it.

Since the company started this STRC, I know this will happen. We are going to later know Strategy plan, but I think they have long term plan for bitcoin buying.

The amount sold is big, but it is small to their total bitcoin holding.

They need a USD reserves because of this and that's what they do to do it long term and to cater their clients. I think Michael is the maxi we need and I'm still bullish that he'll continue that graph that he use to post in his X page. You think we will see that holding reduce to 500k at least or surpass that Satoshi bitcoin holdings?

[Lucius]

~snip~
To conclude, in response to the question of whether institutional trades influence the market, my answer is yes—but for the worse for us. Bitcoin has become “Wall Street-ized,” and it’s going through the same thing that happened with gold back in the day: the price isn’t determined purely by the supply and demand of actual Bitcoin.

Since I joined this forum I remember people discussing when "they" would get involved in the Bitcoin story - and now that they have, many people don't understand why 1 BTC isn't still worth at least $1 million. For me, it was something inevitable, not something bad in general - because if I bought coins for $200, and they buy for several hundred times the price, it is not at all disputed who is stupid in that story.

Of course, they use everything possible to make as much profit as possible, and the market has no mercy for the weak and inexperienced - regardless of whether it is gold or Bitcoin.

~snip~
They need a USD reserves because of this and that's what they do to do it long term and to cater their clients. I think Michael is the maxi we need and I'm still bullish that he'll continue that graph that he use to post in his X page. You think we will see that holding reduce to 500k at least or surpass that Satoshi bitcoin holdings?

Why is it important to you and why do you think we need it?

He was never here because he thinks Bitcoin is something phenomenal that will change the world (no matter what he's been saying all these years), but only for profit. It doesn't matter at all whether he has 800k BTC or only 80 BTC, what matters is that he miscalculated and now has to sell to stay afloat.

[Odusko]

Do not worry, they will still buy bitcoin again. They are Treasury holder, you should expect this to happen.

Since the company started this STRC, I know this will happen. We are going to later know Strategy plan, but I think they have long term plan for bitcoin buying.

The amount sold is big, but it is small compared to their total bitcoin holding.

Yes I am not worried, because micro strategy have consistently buy back bitcoin more than the quantity their sell each time there is a major bitcoin sell off like thi, onething that makes me to raise this discussion is for us to speculate, what impact this kind of institutional actions have on bitcoin price movement, micro strategy hinted that they are diving into more.y

[Frankolala]

Don't you see that Microstrategy is into business and did you think that he will buy all those large quantities of Bitcoin without selling a dime till infinity. Nah! He invested as a normal retailer will do irrespective of his level of aggressiveness. Selling small portion of Strategy bitcoin wouldn't affect the company at all. This will only affects the market in a short term and the price will definitely bounce up again.

[Dunamisx]

Another news alart that micro Strategy are selling some large amounts of their bitcoin holdings, this can make mainstream headlines news, but does it really change anything in terms of bitcoin market price reactions both in the long term or short term basis.
 https://x.com/i/status/2086785757620945349

No wonder the market is bearish since morning, this is just a quick reaction towards the recent development as the market was initially planning to surge before this come in, pulling it down, Michael Saylor is very strategic about is buying and selling and this recent reaction may just lead to further fall over the market and before you know it, you will still hear more about their decision to buy after the fall of the market which is a unique strategy man don't know how it works in this manner.

[Tonimez]

Another news alart that micro Strategy are selling some large amounts of their bitcoin holdings, this can make mainstream headlines news, but does it really change anything in terms of bitcoin market price reactions both in the long term or short term basis.

Strategy's trades are OTC, so they do not impact the market. What can have an impact, however, are the announcements it makes, as was the case with the first symbolic sale of a small amount of Bitcoin earlier this year.

The announcements are truly the real market blow that this strategy sales have been causing since the bitcoin sales commenced. Not many bitcoin investors have taken their time to investigate into the reason why this sales have not truly had a significant impact on the current bitcoin price even though it's raising much questions among some bitcoin communities. I checked through for the OTC trade and I now agree with you that this sales itself would have an insignificant effect if not for the continuous fallacious announcements the company has been making and the public attention since it's not exchange based. I feel more relieved right now because I have also questioned this sales but never found the real truth.

Don't you see that Microstrategy is into business and did you think that he will buy all those large quantities of Bitcoin without selling a dime till infinity. Nah! He invested as a normal retailer will do irrespective of his level of aggressiveness. Selling small portion of Strategy bitcoin wouldn't affect the company at all. This will only affects the market in a short term and the price will definitely bounce up again.

There's no way anybody would expect strategy never to sell their bitcoin till eternity because it's an investment and even though they may not be selling off all their reserves they can also be taking the profits. But it's not selling at loss, yes the average cost per bitcoin owned by strategy is around $75k and as an investor he won't want to sell at loss but I saw in a place where he clarified that he also intended to prove a point:, "According to Saylor, it was partly designed to prove that the company could sell BTC without breaking either Bitcoin's market or Strategy's financing model." I'm still trying to understand the whole situation here and how This was possible since the price has not had any significant negative impact yet. I would love to see a clearer explanation to this from @Free market capitalist.

[puloweh555]

Do not worry, they will still buy bitcoin again. They are Treasury holder, you should expect this to happen.

Since the company started this STRC, I know this will happen. We are going to later know Strategy plan, but I think they have long term plan for bitcoin buying.

The amount sold is big, but it is small compared to their total bitcoin holding.

Yes I am not worried, because micro strategy have consistently buy back bitcoin more than the quantity their sell each time there is a major bitcoin sell off like thi, onething that makes me to raise this discussion is for us to speculate, what impact this kind of institutional actions have on bitcoin price movement, micro strategy hinted that they are diving into more.y

Yes. This sale is a continuation of the previous sell-off by the company, which might be bigger than before. Of course, the Bitcoin sales made by Michael or Strategy will affect the price in the short term, but there's no need to worry. In fact, if we look at Bitcoin pattern from every cycle, there's always a price drop to the lowest point. Maybe the sales by Michael or Strategy are part of a scheme that will happen with Bitcoin. 

Moreover, the amount of Bitcoin still held by Michael or Strategy compared to what they've sold is very small. You could say they still have 4% of Bitcoins from the total supply. The short term price impact will become more apparent as this marks the sixth consecutive week that Michael or Strategy has not bought any BTC.

[Mrbluntzy]

Bitcoin market reaction is based on other factors but one of the obvious factor which we usually talk about is supply and demand, institutional trades of Bitcoin can influence supply and demand depending if the amount sold or bought is extremely massive and that can influence the reaction of Bitcoin price for a short or long period of time.

In my opinion, how the institutional trades can change Bitcoin is that the Institutions could sometimes orchestrate fake supply to cause FUD in the market which can cause a lot of retail investor to dump and then the Institution will buy back more Bitcoin, in such situation they will buy more than that previous number had and they are buying it at a lower price. I feel that sometimes, the institutions doesn't even sell any coins but they can move a large amount of Bitcoin to a different destination to make people feel they are selling. If the selling pressure is so high that there is no demand to absorb it, it cause price to fall and the institutions will start buying.  However, if you don't fall for such a manipulation, you will still earn profit for holding your coins until it reached the price you have always wanted to sell at.

If the news is true, since he also stated it too in his post on Xthat Strategy sold 1,690 Bitcoin between August 3rd and August 9th which was yesterday, and it didn't show any impact on the market, that's to say there is a strong demand that have absorbed the sold coins. Speaking of which, I read that they also sold $6.59 million shares of common stock and raised about $653.1 million.

[rbynxx]

~snip~
They need a USD reserves because of this and that's what they do to do it long term and to cater their clients. I think Michael is the maxi we need and I'm still bullish that he'll continue that graph that he use to post in his X page. You think we will see that holding reduce to 500k at least or surpass that Satoshi bitcoin holdings?

Why is it important to you and why do you think we need it?

He was never here because he thinks Bitcoin is something phenomenal that will change the world (no matter what he's been saying all these years), but only for profit. It doesn't matter at all whether he has 800k BTC or only 80 BTC, what matters is that he miscalculated and now has to sell to stay afloat.

That's just my opinion though and the impact it has to the market. Well you've got point there and that's difficult to argue, but whether he believe or just saw it as an opportunity, the effects that bitcoin being legit and the adoption was real regardless of intent. As for miscalculation, I think he/they navigate a lot of downturns without forcing a sell. Possible, but I think it's still premature to call that.

[tabas]

No wonder the market is bearish since morning, this is just a quick reaction towards the recent development as the market was initially planning to surge before this come in, pulling it down, Michael Saylor is very strategic about is buying and selling and this recent reaction may just lead to further fall over the market and before you know it, you will still hear more about their decision to buy after the fall of the market which is a unique strategy man don't know how it works in this manner.

The impact was felt and I guess that's already the force that affected the market when they've sold. From $65k down to $63k but that's not too much per se. Because the price always recovers if ever they're selling. I knew it that they're going to sell at some point and Michael has already said that it's him telling that people shouldn't sell but not them. I guess that the goal of aiming to hold a million of BTC is still on going. but with financial matters that they have to face, these sales are a part of their company's obligation to their investors.

[Finebone]

Another news alart that micro Strategy are selling some large amounts of their bitcoin holdings, this can make mainstream headlines news, but does it really change anything in terms of bitcoin market price reactions both in the long term or short term basis.
 https://x.com/i/status/2086785757620945349

No wonder the market is bearish since morning, this is just a quick reaction towards the recent development as the market was initially planning to surge before this come in, pulling it down, Michael Saylor is very strategic about is buying and selling and this recent reaction may just lead to further fall over the market and before you know it, you will still hear more about their decision to buy after the fall of the market which is a unique strategy man don't know how it works in this manner.

When i heard of the news that Michael saylor sold a huge amount of his holdings, the first thing that goes through my mind is how the market will react to this, because with such high numbers of Bitcoin sold off(1,690) their is no way it would not influence other investors to sell also in fear that the market may drop drastically than they expect, so since the drop is not that much as they thought, I guess that before the end of the week, those that sold in fear when they heard of the news will buy back and the market will be bullish again, so am not losing sleep over this because am confident that bitcoin will always recover, no matter how dip it falls.

[Ishicryptic]

Do not worry, they will still buy bitcoin again. They are Treasury holder, you should expect this to happen.

Since the company started this STRC, I know this will happen. We are going to later know Strategy plan, but I think they have long term plan for bitcoin buying.

The amount sold is big, but it is small to their total bitcoin holding.

I also expect that Strategy would buy back all the Bitcoin that they sold and surely continue to increase their stash, what we're seeing now is a temporary setback because they are not selling at profit which means that they have a good reason to be selling in this dip, were it not for the Saylor "never sell" stance I don't think that we would be seeing their sellings as a big deal. What they've sold so far is significant but considering the amount of Bitcoin that they have we cannot conclude that they are desperately selling off to liquidate their Bitcoin asset, they can decide to sell for whatever reasons that they choose but as long as they still have a lot of Bitcoin assets reserve we can assume that they will continue to be in Bitcoin investment business. As for their selling it hasn't impacted the market like some observers would expect it to so it means that the market have adjusted to Strategy sells, it's no longer a strong fundamental to affect the market to slump.

[atookz]

Another news alart that micro Strategy are selling some large amounts of their bitcoin holdings, this can make mainstream headlines news, but does it really change anything in terms of bitcoin market price reactions both in the long term or short term basis.
 https://x.com/i/status/2086785757620945349

IMO, institutional buying/selling does matter, but it hits differently in the short term versus the long term.

In the short term, news of this type tends to cause volatility as a group of retail traders panics when they read a headline such as “MicroStrategy dumps bitcoin”. But FOMO or panic selling can come and go quickly, especially when the news is sensationalized by the mainstream press, which often lacks proper context (e.g., is this a big sell-off or simply some minor rebalancing?).

However, in the long term, bitcoin's valuation is much more driven by fundamentals, such as:
Overall adoption
Macro conditions – interest rates, inflation etc.
General market sentiment
Supply and demand of the whole market, not just one player.

MicroStrategy does have a big bag, although in comparison to bitcoin's overall market cap in the hundreds of billions, their buys and sells generally make a ripple. Unless the quantity is really big and the dump occurs all at once on the spot market; not OTC.

The important thing is not the institutional move itself, it's how the market responds to it. A sharp recovery in price is indicative of continuing strong demand. However, if it continues to be dragged down then it means sentiment is very weak.

Simply, the bottom line is that institutional buying/selling short term can produce noise and/or emotion, but it does not influence the overall long-term market sentiment much  unless it's accompanied by a broader shift in market sentiment.

[Derekfunds]

This sell can cause a change in the market but the effect won't be that great because there are folks out there who are also buying but if people that are buying now doesn't purchase more than this quantity then the effect can be really significant but it doesn't change any thing because this is market and there will always be a seller and there will always be a buyer but market will fluctuate more if there is a little momentum of buying and lastly Investor should not bother about what is happening.

[LogitechMouse]

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Another news alart that micro Strategy are selling some large amounts of their bitcoin holdings, this can make mainstream headlines news, but does it really change anything in terms of bitcoin market price reactions both in the long term or short term basis.

That picture is the sole reason why many are frustrated about Michael Saylor and even though he always say that he will never sell his PERSONAL Bitcoin holdings, investors will still be frustrated at him whenever the company Strategy sells their Bitcoin holdings. It already came to a point where whenever you hear the company name "Strategy", the first name that comes to our mind is him even though he's not the CEO anymore.

As for the company selling some Bitcoins, there are some reasons as to why they're doing it.
1. Stock Dividends - well we know that STRC holders will receive dividends, and where they're getting those? By selling Bitcoin.
2. Replenishing USD reserve

It seems like going all-in on Bitcoin isn't the best thing to do if you're a company, eh? As for the question, institutions aren't disclosing where and how they sold those Bitcoins, but whenever these will be known to the public, it could have a negative effect towards the investors hence, the selling pressure increase. If institutions buy, nothing changes because I believe they're buying OTC and not through an exchange. Please correct me on this one if I'm wrong.

[justdimin]

The only thing that will surely get attention are the critics behind Michael or Strategy I guess but I think the market will just absorb it.

Which I never really understand. They are not the only ones selling, they have 800k+ or so bitcoins, they already bought so much, and they grew their company to an insane size thanks to it, maybe they did buy at wrong times ab it, I mean they have been around for a long time and they are right now at a loss, they are selling at a loss right now because their average is higher than the current price, meaning they did not buy when it was low and they sold when it was low so that is a mistake, and I can understand being critical of that part.

But there are so many people selling right now; it is not just Microstrategy, it is not just Saylor, the entire market is selling, the price is crashing. We have gone from 125k to even under 60k, and that means there are so many people selling, from regular small time poor retail investors to big blackrock level of investors; they all sold during this period, so it is really making no sense to me that it is just Microstrategy that is getting all this much hate for it.

[Awaklara]

This sell can cause a change in the market but the effect won't be that great because there are folks out there who are also buying but if people that are buying now doesn't purchase more than this quantity then the effect can be really significant but it doesn't change any thing because this is market and there will always be a seller and there will always be a buyer but market will fluctuate more if there is a little momentum of buying and lastly Investor should not bother about what is happening.

Institutional investors who are selling are definitely executing a strategy. I'm sure they'll buy again in certain situations, or they're working on something for their next move. They buy in large amounts and sell some of it. It's not all the Bitcoin they own. Maybe they're moving the market, but I'm sure it's not what's changing the long-term direction.