Another Bitcoin miner pivots to AI after a brutal quarter

[Oshosondy]

Keel Infrastructure (Nasdaq: KEEL), formerly known as Bitcoin miner Bitfarms, reported made losses in another quarter. It is moving from bitcoin mining to AI and high-performance computing (HPC) which it said to have been completed.

You can read about about this on https://finance.yahoo.com/markets/crypto/articles/another-bitcoin-miner-pivots-ai-205005042.html

I still think miners that get it right and sell bitcoin later will not lose, but business is business, some miners want the profit as fast as possible.

[FP91G]

Miners can profit by selling their coins at a profit if their mining cost is lower than the market price of Bitcoin and they can hold the coins.

When a miner's Bitcoin mining cost is higher than the market price, they need to cover their operating expenses or take out loans.

[dansus021]

First of all I seen news same like this MARA and other companies said they want to move into AI datacenter, I mean its okay to move on but are they really have that customer to pay their bill. If I were company CEO im gonna diversify rather than pivoting all my resource into AI.

But after all they are public company who looking for profit so they might wanting fast profits, For companies facing high operational debt or poor fleet efficiency, continuing to mine Bitcoin at a loss while waiting for a massive price rally becomes a dangerous balance-sheet gamble.

[FP91G]

First of all I seen news same like this MARA and other companies said they want to move into AI datacenter, I mean its okay to move on but are they really have that customer to pay their bill. If I were company CEO im gonna diversify rather than pivoting all my resource into AI.

But after all they are public company who looking for profit so they might wanting fast profits, For companies facing high operational debt or poor fleet efficiency, continuing to mine Bitcoin at a loss while waiting for a massive price rally becomes a dangerous balance-sheet gamble.

Risk diversification is the right strategy, but what will these companies do when the AI ​​bubble bursts?
MARA Holdings doesn't purchase the very expensive equipment needed to power its AI systems. MARA Holdings provides land and ready-made energy infrastructure, while its partner, Starwood Capital, invests in construction and enters into lease agreements with corporate clients.

[Mia Chloe]

Miners can profit by selling their coins at a profit if their mining cost is lower than the market price of Bitcoin and they can hold the coins.
When a miner's Bitcoin mining cost is higher than the market price, they need to cover their operating expenses or take out loans.

Which explains exactly why solo mining as a thing actually seems to be declining. When both price and hash rate competitions put you at a disadvantage you basically run into gross loss. That's why it's still very important we still have price increments from time to time just to sustain cost for small miners.

Risk diversification is the right strategy, but what will these companies do when the AI ​​bubble bursts?
MARA Holdings doesn't purchase the very expensive equipment needed to power its AI systems. MARA Holdings provides land and ready-made energy infrastructure, while its partner, Starwood Capital, invests in construction and enters into lease agreements with corporate clients.

These are all business minded and structured incentives. They are partnering and investing in energy solutions because that's where most of the losses come in. Electricity is getting crazy expensive.

[dansus021]

First of all I seen news same like this MARA and other companies said they want to move into AI datacenter, I mean its okay to move on but are they really have that customer to pay their bill. If I were company CEO im gonna diversify rather than pivoting all my resource into AI.

But after all they are public company who looking for profit so they might wanting fast profits, For companies facing high operational debt or poor fleet efficiency, continuing to mine Bitcoin at a loss while waiting for a massive price rally becomes a dangerous balance-sheet gamble.

Risk diversification is the right strategy, but what will these companies do when the AI ​​bubble bursts?
MARA Holdings doesn't purchase the very expensive equipment needed to power its AI systems. MARA Holdings provides land and ready-made energy infrastructure, while its partner, Starwood Capital, invests in construction and enters into lease agreements with corporate clients.

I personally wanted to say this out loud haha, and yes what happen when AI bubble burst? after they rellocating all their resource pivoting into AI. In theory a data center can be widely used not just for AI but for other things, but my question is what would happen if the company cant find the buyer or customer? is just killing them, bitcoin in other hand didnt really need customer to operate right

if everyone follow mara that provides land and futures contract its fine but what happen with other companie

[FP91G]

Miners can profit by selling their coins at a profit if their mining cost is lower than the market price of Bitcoin and they can hold the coins.
When a miner's Bitcoin mining cost is higher than the market price, they need to cover their operating expenses or take out loans.

Which explains exactly why solo mining as a thing actually seems to be declining. When both price and hash rate competitions put you at a disadvantage you basically run into gross loss. That's why it's still very important we still have price increments from time to time just to sustain cost for small miners.

Risk diversification is the right strategy, but what will these companies do when the AI ​​bubble bursts?
MARA Holdings doesn't purchase the very expensive equipment needed to power its AI systems. MARA Holdings provides land and ready-made energy infrastructure, while its partner, Starwood Capital, invests in construction and enters into lease agreements with corporate clients.

These are all business minded and structured incentives. They are partnering and investing in energy solutions because that's where most of the losses come in. Electricity is getting crazy expensive.

I don't see solo mining in decline right now.
Look at how many solo mining devices are currently on the market and how many pools are popping up.
It's unprofitable, but $200-$1,000 per device for solo mining and a few tens of dollars or less in electricity costs doesn't seem like a loss for miners.

if everyone follow mara that provides land and futures contract its fine but what happen with other companie

"More room for the rest of us." C 

[nelson4lov]

I have no issues with miners that are pivoting to AI. What I'm more concerned about is if the move is permanent or just a temporary one to milk off the AI hype before things in AI peaks. Miners run a business and have to make profit off their resources and if you look at the figures some of these major players in AI are willing to spend on compute, it's easy to see why miners are pivoting. We get less sale pressure in the end and difficulty will be adjusted all of which may be catalysts for the next bull run.

[FP91G]

I have no issues with miners that are pivoting to AI. What I'm more concerned about is if the move is permanent or just a temporary one to milk off the AI hype before things in AI peaks. Miners run a business and have to make profit off their resources and if you look at the figures some of these major players in AI are willing to spend on compute, it's easy to see why miners are pivoting. We get less sale pressure in the end and difficulty will be adjusted all of which may be catalysts for the next bull run.

Only the largest players in the mining market can do this, as they can find funding or partners who need their energy capacity.
All other miners lack this opportunity for financial reasons, as building data centers is a slow process, and the payback for AI mining equipment is indefinite.

[Outhue]

I'm wondering if they would do the same if AI never existed? I bet there isn't anywhere else to move to, and that one thing I've learnt about mining is bear market are always the toughest but also the best time to get into mining because those miners will be cheaper than they used to, the problem is keeping up with their electric consumption, if they don't make good profits it makes no sense to keep paying for electricity bill but those who understand the cycle knows that bear market is a deceiving camouflage that have fooled many including miners themselves, the sweetest time to actually mine is in a bear market, better difficulty and cheaper Asic miners.

[logfiles]

<...>

Mining BTC is a long term investment and so anyone who invested in it should think about the rough times like the bear market. They should be able to cover the electricity bills among other costs until the bull market returns

Most of the folks are rushing into AI because it "looks lucrative" and there is a lot of hype around it right now. But I think that hype won't last long. We are already seeing companies sourcing for funding through IPOs. That simply means the cost of running the service is more than how much people are paying/subscribing for. When you look at the subscription plans especially for those AI models from the US, they are too high IMO.

[FP91G]

I'm wondering if they would do the same if AI never existed? I bet there isn't anywhere else to move to, and that one thing I've learnt about mining is bear market are always the toughest but also the best time to get into mining because those miners will be cheaper than they used to, the problem is keeping up with their electric consumption, if they don't make good profits it makes no sense to keep paying for electricity bill but those who understand the cycle knows that bear market is a deceiving camouflage that have fooled many including miners themselves, the sweetest time to actually mine is in a bear market, better difficulty and cheaper Asic miners.

Now isn't the best time to buy ASICs unless you have cheap electricity.
If you buy an ASIC now, it might not pay for itself before the halving in 20 months, and after the halving, it will be unprofitable unless the Bitcoin price at least doubles.
I don't see the point in buying ASICs now if my profit is almost zero. It's more profitable to buy Bitcoin as an investment.

[mikeywith]

I still think miners that get it right and sell bitcoin later will not lose, but business is business, some miners want the profit as fast as possible.

How soon is "later" ? that would be a gambling strategy rather than a business because nobody knows when will the price reach a certain point, in fact, nobody can be certain that the price will actually go up in the first place, so building on a "hope" is indeed stupid.

For a small individual miner they may take that risk and wait for years, but large corporations can't do that -- they have massive expenses they need to fund and thus their breath is very short and I did mention years ago that all of thess large U.S miners will take a hit and go out of business and this is more likely to happen the further we move on with halvings.