I'm confused by the casino's policy

[Questat]

Just want to get community's feedback/opinion about something I read before. There was a user who had been playing in a popular and reputable sportsbook for years, and during those years the account was still not KYC verified.

Then one day he received a message saying the account was suspected of violating the TOS. The user said he was not aware of any violation, the only thing he did was use the same account on different devices.

Since the casino required KYC and the user was confident he could pass it, he submitted his documents through a third party verification provider and passed the KYC. But even after passing, the casino still decided to close the account, though they allowed him to withdraw his money.

What do you call this kind of situation? I mean how can we fight a decision like that if we believe we really did not break the TOS?

The user was not a VIP and no money was lost since the remaining balance was allowed to be withdrawn, but still it's confusing why the account was closed after passing KYC.

[Charles-Tim]

Since the casino required KYC and the user was confident he could pass it, he submitted his documents through a third party verification provider and passed the KYC. But even after passing, the casino still decided to close the account, though they allowed him to withdraw his money.

Are you sure the person pass the KYC? I have seen some gambling sites that returned the money that the person deposited that he has not lost to gambling and minus the money he won, given back to the person. But not all gambling sites can be very kind up to that extent. There are many other gambling sites that the person can use to gamble.

[freedomgo]

So the problem here is the user was suspected of violating the TOS, and I think that's something hard to fight because the investigation is on their side. They probably won't share everything they did during the process, only the final result.

After all it's their casino, they can choose who they want to allow to play and of course they will protect their own interest. The good thing here is the casino did not scam the user, they still allowed him to withdraw the funds before permanently closing the account.

If this happened with another casino maybe the funds would have been put on hold. But I still find it strange because assuming the user is honest and really did not violate anything, then he was basically accused of something without really knowing what he did wrong.

[Swordsoffreedom]

KYC will basically confirm your identity. It will never prove that you have not any other TOS issue clean, such as betting activity, device or IP pattern etc,

And I myself use my account on phone, laptop, browser everywhere. I have never had any problems. Even then if operator think it is suspicious then they should at least clearly state which rules were applied.

And if they really suspect TOS violation, then it does not matter whether you have passed KYC or not, they can definitely close your account. Because identity verification and behavioral or security review are different things. But at least in this case there was no outright confiscation because his balance was allowed to be withdrawn.

[bakasabo]

I mean how can we fight a decision like that if we believe we really did not break the TOS?

You can fight, but you cant win because 1) casinos never give full explanation why they ban you. They copy/paste clause from ToS and that is it. Not giving any explanation they describe as they dont want to reveal methods they use to catch you violating rules, because later you might find way to avoid it 2) casinos almost never unban users. Even if that user was bringing them a lot of money, they still wont unban him. Explanation is simple - they have thousands of other users who bring them money. One more or one less user dont make any difference.

[stompix]

There was a user who had been playing in a popular and reputable sportsbook for years,

Name and shame!
Seriously, why are you people so afraid of calling out a casino?
This is why abuse happens!

What do you call this kind of situation? I mean how can we fight a decision like that if we believe we really did not break the TOS?

Get a lawyer, call your national ombudsman, file a complaint with the regulatory body that granted their license.
Oh, it's a Turtle Island based casino with a license from Narnia? Good luck with your other life endeavors.

You can fight, but you cant win because 1) casinos never give full explanation why they ban you. They copy/paste clause from ToS and that is it. Not giving any explanation they describe as they dont want to reveal methods they use to catch you violating rules, because later you might find way to avoid it 2) casinos almost never unban users.

So I guess that if a casino inserts a clause in their ToS that at every $1000 won you must donate them your kidney and they show up at your door with the knife and the fridge box, there is nothing you can do, you get on the floor, they take it right there, and you get your $1000 after which yu go to the hospital for stiches.

[acroman08]

but still it's confusing why the account was closed after passing KYC.

Because passing the verification does not mean you are cleared of the terms you possibly violated. If you visit the scam accusation board, if I remember correctly, you'll see cases where gamblers were able to verify the KYC, but still got banned in the end after being allowed to withdraw their funds from the casino.

[cryptoaddictchie]

The user was not a VIP and no money was lost since the remaining balance was allowed to be withdrawn, but still it's confusing why the account was closed after passing KYC.

It really doesnt make sense actually. If he did do the KYC and pass, but never allow to continue wih the account due to some TOS then why they asked him to do it? Even at the end they will decide to not let the user continue. Making him allowed to withdraw atleast is good however he should just given an explanation how did he violate it? Justification for not allowing him to play anymore.

[Questat]

Since the casino required KYC and the user was confident he could pass it, he submitted his documents through a third party verification provider and passed the KYC. But even after passing, the casino still decided to close the account, though they allowed him to withdraw his money.

Are you sure the person pass the KYC?

yes

Name and shame!
Seriously, why are you people so afraid of calling out a casino?
This is why abuse happens!

no need, I'm also a user of such casino and i find them reputable, but i also believe on the experience of the person i've mentioned.

Get a lawyer, call your national ombudsman, file a complaint with the regulatory body that granted their license.
Oh, it's a Turtle Island based casino with a license from Narnia? Good luck with your other life endeavors.

No need man, no money is lost.

So I guess that if a casino inserts a clause in their ToS that at every $1000 won you must donate them your kidney and they show up at your door with the knife and the fridge box, there is nothing you can do, you get on the floor, they take it right there, and you get your $1000 after which yu go to the hospital for stiches.

you're funny.

It really doesnt make sense actually. If he did do the KYC and pass, but never allow to continue wih the account due to some TOS then why they asked him to do it? Even at the end they will decide to not let the user continue. Making him allowed to withdraw atleast is good however he should just given an explanation how did he violate it? Justification for not allowing him to play anymore.

in the first place, i think they should no longer request for kyc since they already have a final decision anyway.
That kyc does not solve the problem.

[Wiwo]

Since the casino required KYC and the user was confident he could pass it, he submitted his documents through a third-party verification provider and passed the KYC. But even after passing, the casino still decided to close the account, though they allowed him to withdraw his money.

Are you sure the person passed the KYC? I have seen some gambling sites that returned the money that the person deposited that he has not lost to gambling, minus the money he won, given back to the person. But not all gambling sites can be very kind up to that extent. There are many other gambling sites that the person can use to gamble.

From my observations on this ops explanations, what really triggered the demand for kyc could have come from the IP used innthe new device the player logged in with before this whole issue started.

The possibility is that there must have been someone playing on the casino using that same IP address, and that is against many casinos' rules; they term it multiple accounts operations.

He was allowed to make a final withdrawal of his deposit before the account was closed as a standard operation, since there is no record of bonus abuse from the player's account, so legally he must get his money back before the account can be closed.

[BABY SHOES]

I would like to know if the person made allegations against the casino... how have casinos responded to her? It's not clear which casino because I myself am curious on the offense made by a bettor.

The situation cannot be concluded Now, Could this be just Casino subterfuge because it doesn't like bettors to win constantly? Apart from that, we are also confused because we do not provide clear references.

Is the community you are referring to on the bitcointalk forum?

[DanWalker]

This could be a soft ban or some kind of forced business termination. Either way, it's a pretty shitty and frustrating situation.

Casino often use device fingerprinting and IP intelligence as risk signal. Player may have thought they were simply logging in from different device, while the casino's system may have detected that same device or IP had previously been associated with another banned or flagged account.

The fact that they allowed withdrawal, it suggest that casino didn't consider that player as direct fraudster or thief. Perhaps classified the account as high risk because of device or network link. That's still only a possibility, though, we don't know the casino's actual reason.

Whatever the actual reason was, there's probably not much the user can do now except accept it and move on. The one good thing is that at least he didn't lose his funds.

[mak013]

Just want to get community's feedback/opinion about something I read before. There was a user who had been playing in a popular and reputable sportsbook for years, and during those years the account was still not KYC verified.

Then one day he received a message saying the account was suspected of violating the TOS. The user said he was not aware of any violation, the only thing he did was use the same account on different devices.

Since the casino required KYC and the user was confident he could pass it, he submitted his documents through a third party verification provider and passed the KYC. But even after passing, the casino still decided to close the account, though they allowed him to withdraw his money.

What do you call this kind of situation? I mean how can we fight a decision like that if we believe we really did not break the TOS?

The user was not a VIP and no money was lost since the remaining balance was allowed to be withdrawn, but still it's confusing why the account was closed after passing KYC.

They allowed him to withdraw money, they have no debts. That`s all.
In the main part of the casinos in ToS there are something like "we can ban user if we want without any explanation". If user agrees with ToS(and he must agree if he wants to play) - he agrees that casino can ban him.

Get a lawyer, call your national ombudsman, file a complaint with the regulatory body that granted their license.
Oh, it's a Turtle Island based casino with a license from Narnia? Good luck with your other life endeavors.

~

So I guess that if a casino inserts a clause in their ToS that at every $1000 won you must donate them your kidney and they show up at your door with the knife and the fridge box, there is nothing you can do, you get on the floor, they take it right there, and you get your $1000 after which yu go to the hospital for stiches.

I don`t a lawyer, but i don`t think that here it is possible to do something. They returned all money and they can restrict user without any reasons.

PS. The only thing it is possible to do is:

Name and shame!

[Russlenat]

That's strange, sometimes their system may run a false positive report so you can't really argue with that right away, there's always two sides to the story.

And if you sue them what will you really get, they already allowed the user to withdraw the funds so maybe they don't have much liability anymore. What if they just want to kick a user out, I think they can do that after all being in a casino is not a right, it's more of a privilege, same with here in the forum.

[Saltysugar99]

but still it's confusing why the account was closed after passing KYC.

Because passing the verification does not mean you are cleared of the terms you possibly violated. If you visit the scam accusation board, if I remember correctly, you'll see cases where gamblers were able to verify the KYC, but still got banned in the end after being allowed to withdraw their funds from the casino.

I agree with you. Passing KYC and TOS investigation are not the same thing. It seems to me that the person had some other mistake that he may not understand. It does not seem right to ban an account just because of changing the device. Because people can change devices. Even logging in to multiple devices is quite common. I do not see this as a big reason to close the account. However, the casino site's reputation may have allowed him to withdraw his balance. If the casino site was cheating, the person would have lost his entire balance.

[red4slash]

Is there a further explanation about the ToS violation which is the initial problem because if it comes to account closure the violation should have been committed (consciously or not) this is quite serious because of the impact produced but there is no further explanation regarding this is not something that looks forced.

But indeed I quite applaud what the site is doing in their actions regarding this. They let the gambler withdraw the money left in the account is not it a move that should be appreciated because it is very rare for a site to let their players withdraw the money they have in the balance when the player is caught violating the provisions that the site has explained in the ToS but in this case the situation is different although for me it becomes contradictory when the site gives permission for withdrawal but ban the account.

[Porfirii]

So the problem here is the user was suspected of violating the TOS, and I think that's something hard to fight because the investigation is on their side. They probably won't share everything they did during the process, only the final result.

Under the regulations on the protection of personal data, at least in my jurisdiction, access to information that could be used in an ongoing investigation is not permitted, therefore they would have a good argument not to have to explain themselves until a verdict is adopted in the case.

I'm always surprised that even if they had doubts and asked to do KYC they allowed him to withdraw his money, but it's not the first time I've heard this same thing, so I'm getting used to reading this kind of things that don't make much sense. As long as it is to the benefit of the user, we can't complain.

[free-bit.co.in]

What do you call this kind of situation?

It seems to me at first glance that he may have had something like automated browser extension or proxy service or VPN running on one of his device. Those may have been caught immediately by casino's risk detector software.

I mean how can we fight a decision like that if we believe we really did not break the TOS?

Frankly, fighting in this situation is almost impossible. And they allowed the player to withdraw his entire balance, so there should be no problem.

If a casino confiscates your real money then complaining to licensing authority or third-party dispute body such as AskGamblers or CasinoGuru may take some action. But if they return your deposit and balance, no regulator can force the casino to say "you have to service this player." As a private business they have the right not to provide services to whomever they wish.

[Sticky Bomb]

Then one day he received a message saying the account was suspected of violating the TOS. The user said he was not aware of any violation, the only thing he did was use the same account on different devices.

This would make more sense if it was made known the exact TOS he violated, at least the accused should be enlightened of his crime and be allowed to defend himself or offer explanations. It would also be nice if we knew the name of the casino in that regard and a proper accusation is levelled against them if they are not being clear with the gambler.

Or is it a case of the gambler winning too much and they decided to close his account? Since the person passed KYC and they allowed him withdraw his funds, it's obvious he's not from a restricted country, I think casinos with such behaviors should be called out properly, so more people know about their shady practices. It is not an act of integrity on their side.

[Shinpako09]

Submitting KYC doesn't mean he is free of the accusation of violating the ToS. But it really doesn't make sense to ask if they are still going to ban him at the end. They could just ban him outright.

The only reason I can think of is they want to know his identity for whatever future purpose it is. Maybe put his name on their system banned list or if something terrible happens, at least they know his identity. But at least they let him withdraw coz if I'm not mistaken some casinos can legally freeze or confiscate your funds if you violated their ToS.