The question of provable fairness standards

[danherbias07]

Will there be actual unity for gamblers to push this kind of demand? It's a good thing, and yet it's difficult to believe that it could happen. Even a petition with the signatures of gamblers will probably be hard to achieve.

Anyway, I don't believe in fairness anymore, which is why that "provably fair" will be something good for gamblers if applied truthfully. The sad part is that not all gambling sites will do it. What I believe more is that the chances of winning become very low when you get a high-multiplier win, and the chances of winning increase as you lose more. I believe that's really how their system works, but you will just never know when it could happen.
You could lose $1000 while betting $1 per roll on slots and yet never win anything. While the other guy will lose $100 while betting for $0.1 per roll and win big on the last roll. That's what they believe call RNG, but it's not pure. All the deposits, losses, and wins can affect each roll.

[Findingnemo]

It is not just misleading but it is concrete evidence of cheating because they used provably fair but the results are always fixed means the casino decides the outcome if I am not wrong. We should not just trust them, as bitcoin community we also need to verify them when they claim something. So everyone should learn how to check the provable fairness of the originals and if not better stick with games from third party such as pragmatic play.

[Obulis]

This could be common with new casino or gambling sites and so that is the reason why gambling in approved sites is a bit an upper hand even when they are rocking in bonuses because some sites wouldn't want such reviews of cheats linked to them but some would do whatever they see will work just to get the money.
Having such fixes, they go on to decide what the results will be and that's cheating which is their primary agenda and so they keep misleading the public as much as they can with over attractive baits.

[Sim_card]

Some casinos take advantage of their customers and make their provably fair uncheckable because they're saying the truth about it. Another thing is that most gamblers don't bother about checking if a casino is probably fair or not because they're only after gambling to make profit. Provably fair is just like slogan to these casinos nowadays in order to chest their customers.

[Mr_Brilliant$]

A game can be provable fair doesn't mean it is profitable. The odd still tells a different story. The game can be proved not to be manipulated and still be very unfavorable to gamblers. With all this it's best you base and fix your mind on a game that has probability. There will always be an house edge to favour the casino.

[boyptc]

That's because not all users are checking if they're into a casino that really stands with the provably fair that they're saying.

If you look at how many gamblers really care about it, I don't think that the majority would say about they care about if the game they play is provably fair.

And that's because they only gamble with a small amount and just passing by to have fun.

But for those who are serious with their gambling activities and very sensitive, they can't pass on these kinds of gamblers like the one who made that report.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

I guess the bigger responsibility is on regulators, on the agencies that issued the licenses. Do they even function? Do they conduct regular audit? Do they strictly implement policies that protect consumers? Do they prosecute or penalize cheating casinos? I guess they don't.

Funny as it may sound, I have never seen a report before from casino regulators addressing an issue that they must have discovered about a casino and give a heads up so that players can stop using that casino.

It left me with the question of whether the regulators do not bother to regularly audit a casino that they have licenced to check if those casinos are still abiding to the right policies and are not cheating players. If actually there's a regular regulatory audit on these licensed casino, they regulators can be the ones to detect it and warn players against using the casino, but I don't think they do it.

If there was a case of regulators prosecuting a casino for manipulating a game results, I have not seen one, maybe someone can show me a case like that if they have seen one.

[red4slash]

Why would a casino risk such a reputational hit? The money is probably the answer.
Maybe us as gamblers should be more informed and demand better and uniform standards across the industry.

What are your thoughts on this?

The simple assumption that a few percent of manipulation will not have any impact on gamblers is a mistake because even though only a few percent or even no more than 5 percent difference between RTP and reality it is still a deliberate manipulation practice and this will have a slightly greater impact on gamblers with large amounts.

From here we must be able to judge that even though the trust in a site looks good but we should not ignore by doing a lot of consideration in choosing a site or even the type of game in a site.
In addition, this is why I do not really like to play in casino games or slots on any site (still playing but only a little time I spend on this game) because manipulation like this is very easy to happen and I prefer to be in sportsbook although there is still manipulation that may occur (for some cases) but this will be much smaller in terms of ratio than slots or casino games.

[Donk1]

​I think gamblers need to be more aware not just blindly placing a bet just because they find it fun or they're desperate to win. Basically it's sad to say most gamblers are trusting these platforms too much because almost nobody takes their time to even check their game to see if it was fair or not, making it easy for the casino to slightly take the chance to reduce the possibility of you as a gambler winning that game.....
Perhaps since they are the ones in charge they certainly have the power to take advantage of gamblers until folks start creating awareness by asking for real proof of fair odds. For that it would be easier to differentiate from an honest casino platform and the one that isn't while slightly reducing the chances of losing as a gambler..That's all......

[lovesmayfamilis]

The effect of provable fairness will, in any case, be directed towards the business and profits of the casino itself. We may see promises, but we don't know how casinos will act in disputed situations, since the entire investigation ultimately falls on the operator's judgment. In this case, the operator is the king and the god , they can present whatever is beneficial to them. And yes, we must admit that not everyone will check all the game algorithms. Since people are focused on the game, only a very small percentage of people understand all the intricacies of the checks.

[alani123]

That's because not all users are checking if they're into a casino that really stands with the provably fair that they're saying.

If you look at how many gamblers really care about it, I don't think that the majority would say about they care about if the game they play is provably fair.

And that's because they only gamble with a small amount and just passing by to have fun.

But for those who are serious with their gambling activities and very sensitive, they can't pass on these kinds of gamblers like the one who made that report.

It's even not that easy to check that independently.
In order to understand what you're doing you need some computer science knowledge that isn't even that basic.

Most students in CompSci would take cryptographic algorithms in their second or third year out of a four year program. So really for someone to be self taught in how to check cryptographic chains it might take some extra time or at least some sort of talent or past experience with similar hobbies.

There are utilities to help you check online but they aren't really independent and might be inclined to lie to help a casino.

[Bitcoin.com97]

Some casinos take advantage of their customers and make their provably fair uncheckable because they're saying the truth about it. Another thing is that most gamblers don't bother about checking if a casino is probably fair or not because they're only after gambling to make profit. Provably fair is just like slogan to these casinos nowadays in order to chest their customers.

Exactly, many gamblers don't even care about those things ,they just want to gamble and make good profit , and I believe Casion will do things in there own favour too ,a game being probably doesn't guarantee that it will profitable, but it's obvious Casion are taking advantage of their customers, because this is cheating especially by making it uncheackable .

[xenomorfo]

It's even not that easy to check that independently.
In order to understand what you're doing you need some computer science knowledge that isn't even that basic.

Most students in CompSci would take cryptographic algorithms in their second or third year out of a four year program. So really for someone to be self taught in how to check cryptographic chains it might take some extra time or at least some sort of talent or past experience with similar hobbies.

There are utilities to help you check online but they aren't really independent and might be inclined to lie to help a casino.

what you say is true, how do ordinary people who are totally far from information technology understand it?
there are friends, there are controllers here in the forum who are highly intelligent people
I rely above all on them who know so much about everything.

[DPHOR]

Well to be honest, most gambling site could uses this provably fairness to attract more of the gambler to their site with the intention of having being most trusted casinos, if I must say all casinos preached to be that Fair but dip down I don't just think they are worth it as I do not know how they are calculating their fairness.
And this is what the gambler would want to listen over time because everyone searches for where to win a sustainable amount while gambling.

[tread93]

The recent report by probablyfair.org brings to question the standards of provable fairness across the industry.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5588925.0

It makes us all wonder how easy it is for a gambling site to pretend it's provably fair for the eyes of the people just to hide behind some skewed odds. While yes, bets could be pre decided on a one to one basis, the odds of such bets may be skewed in an unfair way as the afformentioned investigation against betfury showed.

Why would a casino risk such a reputational hit? The money is probably the answer.
Maybe us as gamblers should be more informed and demand better and uniform standards across the industry.

What are your thoughts on this?

Wild how casinos just go about their business here and don’t think anyone is going to come along and double check and hold them accountable. It is most certainly because of the money, they will just go out now and build a new brand and do the same thing again probably. That’s when it becomes tricky because then they will be under the radar again until the cycle repeats.

[Dogedegen]

Wild how casinos just go about their business here and don’t think anyone is going to come along and double check and hold them accountable. It is most certainly because of the money, they will just go out now and build a new brand and do the same thing again probably. That’s when it becomes tricky because then they will be under the radar again until the cycle repeats.

The wild this is the irresponsibility of their business practices when they have very profitable businesses, not that they think that. They are actually right to make that assumption that almost nobody will come along and double check, because as you see it rarely happens. In the case that we have presented in the thread we do not know for how long the casino has been manipulating its results or well scamming the public, we only have a small test in a specific time frame by an user. They could have been scamming for many more months. To avoid easy detection they could even manipulate the days. So I will give a simple example but they can use advanced methods to hide it well. They can use the scam house edge one day and the normal house edge another day. With these days changing it will actually hide the percentage by which they are scamming to some amount. We really need to develop ways to check the provably fairness in real time and then push for the industry to have it accepted. Gambling review websites could demand that casinos participate in that standard and if they don't they could be given a red flag.

[Showlove01]

Well to be honest, most gambling site could uses this provably fairness to attract more of the gambler to their site with the intention of having being most trusted casinos, if I must say all casinos preached to be that Fair but dip down I don't just think they are worth it as I do not know how they are calculating their fairness.
And this is what the gambler would want to listen over time because everyone searches for where to win a sustainable amount while gambling.

Before, did you expect them not to talk how fair they are? of cause they will always talk about how fair they are just to convince and lure people to patronize them. However, some of them that preached about how good and reliable they are, are not actually a scam, but it is very advisable to always look and search before believing or trusting a casino, so someone does not get scammed. sometimes what they mostly used to lure in gamblers is these bonus talks.

[WhoYouCantKill]

I think that’s really where the main problem lies. Having to prove that the result of a game wasn’t manipulated is completely different from having to prove that the odds offered by that particular game itself is actually fair. It’s pretty much possible for a casino to be transparent about how game outcomes are generated, while still on the other hand set an unfavorable house edge. Here’s what would make probably fair a lot more meaningful, if the casino can be more transparent about randomness and payout probabilities.

[MRY]

Before, did you expect them not to talk how fair they are? of cause they will always talk about how fair they are just to convince and lure people to patronize them. However, some of them that preached about how good and reliable they are, are not actually a scam, but it is very advisable to always look and search before believing or trusting a casino, so someone does not get scammed. sometimes what they mostly used to lure in gamblers is these bonus talks.

Well, it is true that the so called algorithmic fairness is usually nothing more than a branding tool that is used to increase the user base that is registered. Story of reliability is carefully created, on a grand scale to appeal to players who need a promise of assurance in continuing to bet their capital.

One of the main tactics to capture the interest of general population is the promise of marvellous bonuses, under the disguise of ensuring the integrity of operations. Such critical attitude and personal inquiry of the goodwill of the manager are imperative to avoid getting cheated by bogus claims and the losses incurred.

[qurbanshah02]

I think that’s really where the main problem lies. Having to prove that the result of a game wasn’t manipulated is completely different from having to prove that the odds offered by that particular game itself is actually fair. It’s pretty much possible for a casino to be transparent about how game outcomes are generated, while still on the other hand set an unfavorable house edge. Here’s what would make probably fair a lot more meaningful, if the casino can be more transparent about randomness and payout probabilities.

We cannot prove it in any way. My friend once played a game in which a pattern was being formed, that is, whether the win will come in the next number or not. In this game, there was a box where the sign of each win and the number of losses were being written. In this box, there were about 6 to 7 lines, out of which 4 lines were completed and I had understood this method. I told my friend that by betting as much money as possible, this is the way by which he can win these rounds. He listened to me but was afraid to bet more money and it happened as I had thought and later that friend was quite disappointed. After that, I did not find any way by which I could prove myself. The casino sets all this, some people benefit from it and some lose because their aim is this, otherwise they set every game, they have already set it in a complete order.