ILuckyGuyI is part of an alt farm that has been cheating contests for years

[jeremypwr]

Now fellas, play nice

In lieu of recent discoveries, I have adjusted my trust list

Cheaters suck

[hosemary]

In lieu of recent discoveries, I have adjusted my trust list

jeremypwr, it's entirely up to you, but you may want to consider removing your positive feedback too.
Your feedback says CLS63 is trustworthy, and I don't think you still believe that CLS63 is a trustworthy user.

[jeremypwr]

In lieu of recent discoveries, I have adjusted my trust list

jeremypwr, it's entirely up to you, but you may want to consider removing your positive feedback too.
Your feedback says CLS63 is trustworthy, and I don't think you still believe that CLS63 is a trustworthy user.

Noted and done, thanks

[CLS63]

...

Who helped you write this post?

My sister helped.   I was very upset that day. I asked my sister for help with the translation.  She told me, "Are you stupid? Look at the things you're wasting your time on." 😂 In short, screw it. I'll use Translate today, let's see how it goes.

What was important to me was not losing the friends I'd met in real life because of an incident like this, because, you know, friendships aren't easily formed. While preparing my answers to your questions for Wednesday, I saw theymos's message and realized that my answers had become meaningless. Nevertheless, I will send my writing so that my effort is not wasted.  

1) We understand your connection with ILuckyGuyI, but your money transactions are the same as with all your other accounts, and your wake-up time is the same as with all your other accounts. Is it possible that this is a coincidence?


It's possible because almost all the other accounts belonged to him, meaning he was converting the money I earned from the forum into Turkish lira for me.

2) How did you do the translations?

When he was available, he would write to me, and I would write the Turkish versions of the posts I wanted to send him on the forum, and he would translate them into English for me. Since forum posts are public, this didn't violate anyone's privacy. I used Translate on Telegram because it wouldn't be ethical to do the same thing there, so my style was different.

3) When did you meet in real life outside of the forum and what were the posts like around those dates?

That hadn't occurred to me, thanks for the question. We met between March 15-18, 2024, which is why my posting history from those dates differs from my other accounts. Because I couldn't post much when I was drunk.  

4) Does being a good person have anything to do with this event?

I believe I managed the F1 pool for three years and everyone paid the price. I understand and agree with the criticism that some people here might be good people but that doesn't mean they don't cheat. It's not the same thing.

5) What were your answers like in the competitions? Were they similar?

I didn't cheat in the competitions. I've been participating in BSFL for 5 years. I think if all these accounts belonged to me, we wouldn't be responding at the same time some weeks. Or in bets where the minute of the first goal is important, one of us wouldn't write 6th minute while the other doesn't write 7th minute.

I will not speak about this matter anymore. I think the most logical step would be to remove the positive trusts given to me. Because, no matter how much I deny it, I lost the case. Still, it's wonderful to see that there are so many friends who stand by me here. Making friends is really hard, and I'm not saying this just for the sake of saying it, these friends are truly friends, and I thank them all.

Finally, although I sometimes criticize my country, nobody here is starving. Our economic situation hasn't been great lately, but I believe everything will get better (my situation is above average). So nobody needs to pity me. It's always best to remain objective.

[jahead]

[...] It's possible because almost all the other accounts belonged to him, [...]

Even though in general I dont believe a single word you say:

This means you supposedly knew the whole time that the accounts allegedly belonged to "someone else" who was cheating the whole time, and you didnt mention it at all.  

You say "almost all of them", ok so which ones are actually yours? 

And probably the most important question: which other accounts does "he" control too? You seem to know more than you are telling us here.
You talk about so-called "friendships" but all you do is lie. If I were somehow your "friend", I wouldnt believe a single word from you anymore.

edit:
I deliberately ignored all the other side facts you mentioned because they arent worth the typed words.
Just total nonsense.

[Fortify]

CLS63 - you remain a friend and that bond will not break over this. However even in searching for ways to disprove it, like how the other accounts had a more similar all-time posting profile (with a spike around the same time) I then noticed that all these accounts were created at nearly the same time too which is just one more piece of evidence there's a connection. Now with the latest IP address detail from theymos, it is so hard to distinguish your account from the other accounts that you can hardly see a gap between them any more. If you are closely connected with account farmers, now is the time to disassociate from them because they've caused this trouble for you. It would not seem right for the integrity of the board trust system to leave it a positive in place, so I will have to resubmit comments about you under a neutral tag for what little it matters. If you somehow are running this account farm it's actually highly impressive how you've been able to keep it going for so long and must have earned a fair whack from it, but it is ultimately artificial noise that the community rightly wants rid of. If somehow there is future evidence that you can show to separate yourself from these accounts definitively, I'll rethink this again.

[joker_josue]

...

Who helped you write this post?

My sister helped.   I was very upset that day. I asked my sister for help with the translation.  She told me, "Are you stupid? Look at the things you're wasting your time on." 😂 In short, screw it. I'll use Translate today, let's see how it goes.

What was important to me was not losing the friends I'd met in real life because of an incident like this, because, you know, friendships aren't easily formed. While preparing my answers to your questions for Wednesday, I saw theymos's message and realized that my answers had become meaningless. Nevertheless, I will send my writing so that my effort is not wasted.  

1) We understand your connection with ILuckyGuyI, but your money transactions are the same as with all your other accounts, and your wake-up time is the same as with all your other accounts. Is it possible that this is a coincidence?


It's possible because almost all the other accounts belonged to him, meaning he was converting the money I earned from the forum into Turkish lira for me.

2) How did you do the translations?

When he was available, he would write to me, and I would write the Turkish versions of the posts I wanted to send him on the forum, and he would translate them into English for me. Since forum posts are public, this didn't violate anyone's privacy. I used Translate on Telegram because it wouldn't be ethical to do the same thing there, so my style was different.

In the end, the translator works well. Have you seen all the money you've lost all these years on translations?

There's still something that confuses me regarding translations. Sorry to insist.

You were asking ILuckyGuyI to translate what you wanted to reply, right?
So, you were online on the forum, you saw a topic you wanted to reply to in English, what did you do next? You would write the text in Turkish to ILuckyGuyI on Telegram and wait for his reply?
How long did it take him to respond? I'd say 5-10 minutes.

Now, imagine that in the meantime, other users were replying to the thread with things you had thought of saying, or answering the question you had thought of answering. What would you do?
Would you ask him to rewrite the text he wrote? Would you post it anyway? Or would you simply not post it anymore?


Another thing that confuses me is the availability hours of ILuckyGuyI on the forum, versus yours.
ILuckyGuyI is usually available between 4-5 PM. You are available in the evening after 8 PM. If ILuckyGuyI was doing translations for you, why didn't he also check out the forum and participate?
Furthermore, the number of posts they both made daily was almost always (if not always) the same every day. That seems strange to me.
But this, perhaps, must be ILuckyGuyI trying to explain...


I just keep wondering how much you paid for the translation, because it seems like there's a lot of work and time involved in the whole process.
It should be a really worthwhile amount, both for you and for the translator...

[Revolution2025]

The IP evidence is strongly supportive of ILuckyGuyI, CLS63, jakdanyel, emrecemsan, Velvet78, and Distraction all being the same person. In each case there are even logs of them sharing exactly the same IPv6 address, which is very rare if it's not the same person.

thanks for your intervention in this case, we hope to see you intercede in similar case in the future

all evidence is against you

there's nothing for you to prove

let us assume that all the accounts are handled by different users

why did you chose to share same router/WiFi with your friends when you know that your IP addresses will be the same

the strongest evidence that can be used against you in the forum is wallet connection, why did you use same deposit address and transfer cryptocurrency to each other

if possibly you are not the sole owner of all the accounts mentioned in this case then the only excuse will be that you all work together in same space, share same Router/WiFi, help each other in writing posts, same posting style and pattern then the sequence continues

it is very shameful that you find yourself in this situation after spending nearly 10 years in the forum

you have to slap yourself for being stupid

[CLS63]

...

When translating English texts, I used to rely on Translate. Even if the meaning was sometimes distorted, I could still understand most of the texts. I just thought that if I used Translate, my posts wouldn’t be accepted for signature campaigns because of the post quality. Actually, I wasn’t paying for it just for translation. It was helping me convert Bitcoin into Turkish lira.

By the way, I’m not trying to defend myself against the forum anymore in this situation. If I’m not given negative trust, it would become impossible to punish other account abusers who are accused in similar cases on the forum. I’m just trying to explain to the people who are defending me here that they weren’t mistaken about me.

Normally, I wasn’t going to reply anymore, but since you have been quite polite even though you are against me, I wanted to respond to you. This matter is now closed for me. Thank you very much, everyone.

[mindrust]

I am pretty surprised to see that theymos did interfere and post his own opinions and backed them with data... as far as I know he wasnt interested any of the forum drama in the past. he was like a ghost. now he comes out of the shadows, posts backend logs, shapes the public opinion.

This will act as a deterrent too. The other acc farmers now know it, if they abuse the forum too much, the admin can check the logs and identify the alts pretty easily. Surely there are ways to use multiple IP's but it will definitely make things harder for the farmers. One missclick and your IP is now connected to the every other alt you got.

It was already hard to control and post from multiple accounts. Now it became way harder.

Pretty sure IP isnt the only thing that gives away your real identity anyway. Digital finger prints and shiet, theymos is smart enough to look into those as well. Does he care enough? He did care enough to look into the IP logs... Next time he might take this one step further.

[snipie]

I am pretty surprised to see that theymos did interfere and post his own opinions and backed them with data... as far as I know he wasnt interested any of the forum drama in the past. he was like a ghost. now he comes out of the shadows, posts backend logs, shapes the public opinion.

This will act as a deterrent too. The other acc farmers now know it, if they abuse the forum too much, the admin can check the logs and identify the alts pretty easily. Surely there are ways to use multiple IP's but it will definitely make things harder for the farmers. One missclick and your IP is now connected to the every other alt you got.

It was already hard to control and post from multiple accounts. Now it became way harder.

Pretty sure IP isnt the only thing that gives away your real identity anyway. Digital finger prints and shiet, theymos is smart enough to look into those as well. Does he care enough? He did care enough to look into the IP logs... Next time he might take this one step further.

As far as my bad memory recall, I believe theymos interfered in the past on similar cases. This is not a precedent if I am not mistaken. You can try searching if you are interested.
IP logs are limited but could give a lot of information. I don't know if the forums gather more information about the device used to connect and the browser because within big and young families, you can find several members sharing the same config. Same goes for group of friends, students living together.

[xLays]

I am pretty surprised to see that theymos did interfere and post his own opinions and backed them with data... as far as I know he wasnt interested any of the forum drama in the past. he was like a ghost. now he comes out of the shadows, posts backend logs, shapes the public opinion.

This will act as a deterrent too. The other acc farmers now know it, if they abuse the forum too much, the admin can check the logs and identify the alts pretty easily. Surely there are ways to use multiple IP's but it will definitely make things harder for the farmers. One missclick and your IP is now connected to the every other alt you got.

It was already hard to control and post from multiple accounts. Now it became way harder.

Pretty sure IP isnt the only thing that gives away your real identity anyway. Digital finger prints and shiet, theymos is smart enough to look into those as well. Does he care enough? He did care enough to look into the IP logs... Next time he might take this one step further.

I think the reason theymos got involved this time is simply because someone probably asked him to look into it. I don't think he suddenly became interested in issue or the drama you talking about. If nobody had asked for his input or brought the issue to his attention, I doubt he would have stepped in and checked the backend logs.
As he recently said, he's okay with users sending suggestions, whether they are made publicly or privately. So maybe someone took that opportunity and asked him to look into this particular issue.

[dkbit98]

Good work guys on cracking another farm.
Maybe it's Sisyphus work, but it makes forum a better place.

Because the VPN also changes the addresses, and those addresses are not Turkish. Examine it in detail and you'll definitely find something that sets me apart from the others.

You can explain VPN for sure, but I didn't hear any good explanation for the same writing patterns, and for address connections.
It's very obvious to everyone that you were using several alt accounts basically for cheating.

[nutildah]

I wanted to address some persisting misconceptions. Mainly, this isn't a witch hunt. This was me acting on something strange I saw because I thought it was worth bringing up. Only with the help of the community was the whole thing put together -- I certainly didn't imagine it would be this big in scope when I first opened this topic.

I've been here for a long time and have seen a lot of things. I can keep a secret about somebody's alt account. Sometimes - more often than not, actually - it turns out it was the wrong thing to do. I knew jakdanyel was the alt account of ILuckyGuyI almost immediately after the sigban, but decided not to act on it until I discovered the two accounts had been entering the same contests together for years.

IMO, this type of thing is not something that should be kept a secret. Multi-accounting in contests, pools & tournaments is an inherently unfair practice that punishes honest participants.

As far as "proof" of the contest cheating is concerned, I looked through at least 100 contests participated in by both CLS63 and ILuckyGuyI and didn't find a single identical entry. No prediction they made is exactly the same for the same contest. Rather, they look like they are covering different probable outcomes, especially when a 3rd account from the farm has entered.

Here is the closest example I found of 2 accounts making the same prediction:

1. No
2. No
3. Over
4. Dallas
5. Dallas
6. Boston
7. Boston

1. Yes
2. No
3. Over
4. Dallas
5. Dallas
6. Boston
7. Boston

These 2 accounts have 1640 posts in the Games & Rounds section. This represents several hundred shared contests. Feel free to inspect the posts yourselves and come to your own conclusions:

https://bitlist.co/search?author=ILuckyGuyI,CLS63&board_id=71&limit=20&sort_by=date_asc

Finally, this is connected to sigban work only because its hard to write quality posts if you're running 5-6 accounts at the same time. In addition to ILuckyGuyI, I sigbanned jakdanyel and Distraction and will stop at that.

Thanks to everybody who contributed evidence and connected the dots.

[Rikafip]

As far as "proof" of the contest cheating is concerned, I looked through at least 100 contests participated in by both CLS63 and ILuckyGuyI and didn't find a single identical entry. No prediction they made is exactly the same for the same contest. Rather, they look like they are covering different probable outcomes, especially when a 3rd account from the farm has entered.

I found one case of the same prediction. I haven't checked thoroughly though, just the first few pages of results (I started with the newest ones). 

27 goals

27 goals

[cryptofrka]

The IP evidence is strongly supportive of ILuckyGuyI, CLS63, jakdanyel, emrecemsan, Velvet78, and Distraction all being the same person. In each case there are even logs of them sharing exactly the same IPv6 address, which is very rare if it's not the same person.

theymos, can we please focus a little bit more on this?
Sorry it took me a while, I knew nothing about these things a few days ago - and still don't know much. What I did gather is that you shaped the public opinion based on something that is usually considered only as supporting evidence.
Can you, with certainty, connect CLS63 with the other accounts?

Basic Chatgpt search gives me this (and for this tech stuff AI is usually on point):

In particular, saying identical IPv6 addresses are “very rare if it's not the same person” can be misleading if the address could be an Opera VPN exit address.

Also:

Even if two accounts have an exact 128-bit match, the match establishes that the service logging them observed the same source IPv6 address. It does not inherently tell you whether there was one device, two devices, one LAN, a VPN/proxy exit, or another intermediary.

I'm just trying to understand all of this. Is it 100% or not, and if not - why make such a statement at all?
Also, can we now expect such involvement from you in similar cases in the future?

IMO, this type of thing is not something that should be kept a secret. Multi-accounting in contests, pools & tournaments is an inherently unfair practice that punishes honest participants.

Finally something we agree on. This is exactly why I want the CLS63 case explained to me.

[eaLiTy]

~
What are the chances of any other member of this forum using the Opera browser and the exact location (city with the same IP address) to hide their true location?

I am also using the Opera browser with the VPN active by default, and I highly doubt the IPv6 addresses would be the same, unless someone from my city is also accessing the site using the same browser defaults.

In this case, the only way that's even possible is that Opera VPN uses a small, fixed pool of public IP addresses for each region. In that specific instance, multiple devices connecting from the same city or building will almost always be assigned to the exact same Opera proxy server—making identical IPv4 and IPv6 addresses possible.

@nutildah did a good job identifying the patterns. I am only sharing the possibility of how using the Opera browser with the VPN enabled by default could produce the same IPv4 and IPv6 addresses.

~
It's not normal for IPv6 addresses to be the same with a VPN, typically. And you shift ISPs in the same patterns as ILuckyGuyI.

Like I mentioned above, Opera VPN is not actually a true virtual network tunnel, but rather a proxy server.

Source: https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2016/04/22/opera-browser-vpn-proxy/

[JollyGood]

Finally, this is connected to sigban work only because its hard to write quality posts if you're running 5-6 accounts at the same time. In addition to ILuckyGuyI, I sigbanned jakdanyel and Distraction and will stop at that.

It seems to be sending a signal to account farmers that just one or a select few of their accounts will receive signature bans if they have conducted in nefarious conduct. I believe it is a bad idea as it sends out the wrong messages and is not an appropriate deterrent.

Just for clarity, are you not giving a signature ban to CLS63 on the basis that the posts made using that account were not substandard in quality but the ILuckyGuyI, jakdanyel and Distraction accounts were making substandard quality posts?

I am also using the Opera browser with the VPN active by default, and I highly doubt the IPv6 addresses would be the same, unless someone from my city is also accessing the site using the same browser defaults.

In this case, the only way that's even possible is that Opera VPN uses a small, fixed pool of public IP addresses for each region. In that specific instance, multiple devices connecting from the same city or building will almost always be assigned to the exact same Opera proxy server—making identical IPv4 and IPv6 addresses possible.

The chances that those six accounts used the same IP address at the exact same times on multiple occasions are almost zero whether they used Opera VPN or not. The IP addresses matching on multiple occasions is not a coincidence. Also when the accounts woke up over a period three days in 2020, that also was no coincidence. Then when another two accounts woke up together, that too was no coincidence.

I know some members here (including myself) find it hard to believe the CLS63 account was involved in this but the evidence is extremely strong and his explanations to distract from the facts are hard to believe.

[joker_josue]

I'm just trying to understand all of this. Is it 100% or not, and if not - why make such a statement at all?
Also, can we now expect such involvement from you in similar cases in the future?

IMO, this type of thing is not something that should be kept a secret. Multi-accounting in contests, pools & tournaments is an inherently unfair practice that punishes honest participants.

Finally something we agree on. This is exactly why I want the CLS63 case explained to me.

I have somewhat limited access to the forum, at this moment, I can't present many details.

The situation is not limited to the same IP. It involves a more careful analysis of the logs.
There are connection details, patterns and other points, which helps to identify.

To help you understand better, take a look at this example I gave:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5592644.msg67104107#msg67104107

Then, when I have the opportunity, I can try to explain it better.

[el che]

Like I mentioned above, Opera VPN is not actually a true virtual network tunnel, but rather a proxy server.

Exactly!

Opera's VPN is a browser level proxy and it reportedly used to only handle IPv4 traffic. IPv6 traffic wasn't proxied at all, it just goes out directly through the real connection, leaking the user's actual ISP assigned address. As a cybersecurity professional, I can confirm this has been the case until recently. I ran some tests with Opera VPN using two separate devices on two separate networks (same city), connecting almost simultaneously to the same Opera server (Americas). Both devices ended up with the exact same /64 prefix but a different full /128.

Many casinos ban players for sharing the same /64 prefix, thinking it proves they're on the same network, but that's flawed reasoning, since two completely unrelated people using Opera VPN would also end up sharing that same /64 prefix. If the full /128 matches, though, that's a different story entirely, multi-accounting becomes almost certain. That's exactly why this needs clarifying by theymos.

So the "shared IPv6" in question probably wasn't a VPN exit address at all, it was the real address, unaffected by the VPN. Real IPv6 addresses aren't shared across strangers the way IPv4 is through CGNAT. People on the same household network usually share a /64 prefix, but not the exact same 128-bit address, unless something specific is going on (a static IPv6, a proxy on the router, etc).

So a full, identical IPv6 match is actually a stronger signal than an IPv4 match. It points to the same device, the same connection or some shared infrastructure, not a random VPN collision.

Before concluding anything, though, it's worth checking: is the "identical" address really a full /128 match, or just a shared /64 prefix being loosely described as "the same IP"? If it really is a full match outside a shared household setup, that's much harder to explain away as a fluke.

A response from theymos on this point would go a long way toward resolving this.

To be clear, I have no personal connection to OP or CLS63, I'm a member of the paid pools in gambling and all I care about is the integrity of our contests and fairness to the accused until proven guilty without a shadow of a doubt. That's the only reason I'm asking theymos for this key clarification.