Corporations are to blame for high immigration

[alani123]

Something many people are missing in the immigration stats: the largest number of foreign nationals arrive legally with work permits.
This applies to most Western nations.

Politicians will go out with their populist diatribes virtue signaling about crime and undocumented immigration, but in reality the vast vast majority of immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages, and sadly or not too much power had been given to corporations over inviting whoever they want to just pay them lower wages.

Makes you wonder if Trump is going to do something under the table to please big corpo wanting to keep paying low wages to immigrants after he banned certain kinds of visas, of made them very expensive.

[Exitoral]

I think you're getting it all wrong. There are two different things to this. Corporations wants to pay lower wages. No doubt. But also they want skilled workers. If the skilled workers want higher pay, are you saying they won't pay? Of course they would. But if you can get that skilled worker and still pay lower wages, that's a bonus for them. Even you in their shoes will do same. It's just the economy and market conditions playing side by side. No judgement. So this your statement: immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages is all switched. What about those that just want a better life? Are you saying they want lower wages? You're classifying only a few to equate everybody. That's not right.

[alani123]

I think you're getting it all wrong. There are two different things to this. Corporations wants to pay lower wages. No doubt. But also they want skilled workers. If the skilled workers want higher pay, are you saying they won't pay? Of course they would. But if you can get that skilled worker and still pay lower wages, that's a bonus for them. Even you in their shoes will do same. It's just the economy and market conditions playing side by side. No judgement. So this your statement: immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages is all switched. What about those that just want a better life? Are you saying they want lower wages? You're classifying only a few to equate everybody. That's not right.

Not all corporations want highly skilled workers. Some of the most labour intensive forms of labour like agriculture, farming, hospitality restaurant work etc require little to no skills learned through schooling or education. Yet these sectors keep a large percentage of the workforce employed all over the world.

And even with skilled labour, a skilled non-westerner is much more likely to accept a low salary for his sector standards as a hopeful long term immigrant than any permanent resident who has many more options to pick and choose from without having to worry about an expiring visa between jobs. Corporations save a ton of money in the long term with a lower wage that immigrants are more likely to accept because they depend on them for the visa scheme in most countries.

[Hewlet]

I think you're getting it all wrong. There are two different things to this. Corporations wants to pay lower wages. No doubt. But also they want skilled workers. If the skilled workers want higher pay, are you saying they won't pay? Of course they would. But if you can get that skilled worker and still pay lower wages, that's a bonus for them. Even you in their shoes will do same. It's just the economy and market conditions playing side by side. No judgement. So this your statement: immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages is all switched. What about those that just want a better life? Are you saying they want lower wages? You're classifying only a few to equate everybody. That's not right.

And even with skilled labour, a skilled non-westerner is much more likely to accept a low salary for his sector standards as a hopeful long term immigrant than any permanent resident who has many more options to pick and choose from without having to worry about an expiring visa between jobs. Corporations save a ton of money in the long term with a lower wage that immigrants are more likely to accept because they depend on them for the visa scheme in most countries.

While this is true, would you rather have cooperation go for services that will cost them more just because they want to help reduce the migration crisis or they look at how to manage her resources by getting services that will cost them little?

Cooperation runs based on profit motive and wether Thier action is influencing immigration in the wrong way or not, most of them are more interested in getting services at a lower rate and that's what business is all about. They can't really dictate or influence on government policies if it's against them so it's just normal for them to leverage one if it's neutral towards them.

[Exitoral]

I think you're getting it all wrong. There are two different things to this. Corporations wants to pay lower wages. No doubt. But also they want skilled workers. If the skilled workers want higher pay, are you saying they won't pay? Of course they would. But if you can get that skilled worker and still pay lower wages, that's a bonus for them. Even you in their shoes will do same. It's just the economy and market conditions playing side by side. No judgement. So this your statement: immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages is all switched. What about those that just want a better life? Are you saying they want lower wages? You're classifying only a few to equate everybody. That's not right.

Not all corporations want highly skilled workers. Some of the most labour intensive forms of labour like agriculture, farming, hospitality restaurant work etc require little to no skills learned through schooling or education. Yet these sectors keep a large percentage of the workforce employed all over the world.

And even with skilled labour, a skilled non-westerner is much more likely to accept a low salary for his sector standards as a hopeful long term immigrant than any permanent resident who has many more options to pick and choose from without having to worry about an expiring visa between jobs. Corporations save a ton of money in the long term with a lower wage that immigrants are more likely to accept because they depend on them for the visa scheme in most countries.

Alright. Two things I agree with. Your post is well thoughtful. The agriculture and every other lower sector requiring little skills and necessarily skilled workers. The other one is the visa dependency that can cause that them to actually take lower wages. But looking closer at your replies, it didn't explain the whole picture of the corporation. You still focused on that one side of things. Making it look like that is what all of them are doing. You might be focusing on one country that does this. Are you saying all counties are like this? That's the bigger question.

[Barikui1]

I think you're getting it all wrong. There are two different things to this. Corporations wants to pay lower wages. No doubt. But also they want skilled workers. If the skilled workers want higher pay, are you saying they won't pay? Of course they would. But if you can get that skilled worker and still pay lower wages, that's a bonus for them. Even you in their shoes will do same. It's just the economy and market conditions playing side by side. No judgement. So this your statement: immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages is all switched. What about those that just want a better life? Are you saying they want lower wages? You're classifying only a few to equate everybody. That's not right.

You have said a lot of things I have in mind already, but their are few things I wish to add to what you have already said. As a business person, you will always care more of the interest of your business, because if the indigene don't have the required skills needed to carry out a job, or they have it but what they are demanding as pay is unrealistic, you will want to go for a cheaper alternative, because the most important thing is getting the job done.

Another thing is that these immigrants that comes to work are mostly the ones keeping the economy running because majority of them are skill works, because if they decide to go back to their various nations, it would be very difficult to replace them with the same cost.
 Example, a plumber in America that is from Asia may accept to do a particular plumbing job at a lower cost because in his country, that's a lot of money, but for an American plumber, he wouldn't want to accept it because he will feels like it's too small for him, so it's wrong to put all the blame on this corporation because they are doing what is necessary to keep the countries economy afloat, which is also of interest to them.

[Emjay24]

Makes you wonder if Trump is going to do something under the table to please big corpo wanting to keep paying low wages to immigrants after he banned certain kinds of visas, of made them very expensive.

They would still find their way, instead of direct immigration to the west from third-world countries, most of them leverage on skilled workers who already lived in countries like Kuwait or Dubai and got their permits, relocation to the west from some of these countries are easier and guys have seen it as a possible workaround.

But if you can get that skilled worker and still pay lower wages, that's a bonus for them. Even you in their shoes will do same. It's just the economy and market conditions playing side by side. No judgement. So this your statement: immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages is all switched. What about those that just want a better life? Are you saying they want lower wages? You're classifying only a few to equate everybody. That's not right.

You cannot compare the value of a skilled worker seeking opportunity in the west and that of those from the west, there is a huge difference.
Meanwhile some factories needs human-machines to take on the unskilled tasks and these immigrants are ready to take up those jobs at cheaper prices, even those who want a better life and have no skill are the ones who are mostly used as factory workers in the west and the peanuts they earn from there amount to a lot when converted to their local currencies.

[Die_empty]

Something many people are missing in the immigration stats: the largest number of foreign nationals arrive legally with work permits.
This applies to most Western nations.

Politicians will go out with their populist diatribes virtue signaling about crime and undocumented immigration, but in reality the vast vast majority of immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages, and sadly or not too much power had been given to corporations over inviting whoever they want to just pay them lower wages.

Makes you wonder if Trump is going to do something under the table to please big corpo wanting to keep paying low wages to immigrants after he banned certain kinds of visas, of made them very expensive.

I am aware that most countries have wage benchmarks for work visas. Some nations also have labour laws that forbid companies from employing foreign nationals without considering the local workforce. These laws ensure that citizens are protected and enjoy more privileges than foreign workers.

It is a government failure to allow corporations to employ cheap workers, which would end up making citizens unemployed due to stiff competition. The governemnt should have closely monitored these organisations to ensure that they abide by these laws.

China has a strong competitive advantage because of cheap labour. It might be true that some European nations intentionally allow these companies to bring in cheap labourers because it could be beneficial to the economy. With most countries suffering from low birth rates and aging populations, immigration seems to be the easiest option.

[Royal Cap]

Something many people are missing in the immigration stats: the largest number of foreign nationals arrive legally with work permits.
This applies to most Western nations.

Politicians will go out with their populist diatribes virtue signaling about crime and undocumented immigration, but in reality the vast vast majority of immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages, and sadly or not too much power had been given to corporations over inviting whoever they want to just pay them lower wages.

First of all I would say that the idea that all Western countries use legal immigrants to pay low wages is not correct, because many Western countries have very strict labor laws where minimum wages and equal work rights are legally protected for both domestic and foreign workers, and secondly, the low wage story does not apply to all types of work or visas. As far as I know in high skill technology industries H-1B visas, corporations bring in the world's best talent by paying much more than ordinary American workers because there is a shortage of that particular skill locally. However, It's true that during the Trump administration, the application fees for H-1B visas were increased many times and the minimum wage limit was increased a lot in one fell swoop, so that companies lost the incentive to hire foreign workers instead of domestic workers.

[asriloni]

Makes you wonder if Trump is going to do something under the table to please big corpo wanting to keep paying low wages to immigrants after he banned certain kinds of visas, of made them very expensive.

I think the change of immigrant policies under Trump's regime is already enough to prove he is not letting US companies to hire low wage immigrants. He's fixed the loophole, and made it extremely expensive to hire immigrants. why do we need to speculate to the thing that has no proof like he's undertable agrement with corporations to recruit immigrants while he's already cracked it down?

The question should be whether the next regime after Trump will undo Trump's policies to stricting immigrants to enter US.  

[viljy]

It seems to me that corporate interests are only part of the reason for mass migration. Another part is political. Migration is funded by certain political forces that are interested in a new "great migration of peoples", in a "Babylonian mixing of languages" and cultures. The goal of this is to destroy nation‑states, fragment countries, and create chaos. After all, many migrants don’t even intend to work for low or high wages. They live on generous benefits. At the same time, migrants fiercely hate the indigenous population and want to rape them and then kill them. Or, conversely, in the opposite order...

[Tongley]

Companies always look for their own profit and they see what will be good for them. For example, suppose there is no difference between a US person and a Nigerian person and both people have the same level of ability and can do the same job but the problem is that if a US person is hired, the company will have to pay 2 thousand dollars and if they hire a Nigerian person, they can hire him for 1 thousand dollars, then the company will definitely hire that Nigerian person.

Now the question is that the Nigerian person will agree to work for 1 thousand dollars because this 1 thousand Nigerian dollar is a very big amount. For a US person, 1 thousand dollars may not be that big but for a Nigerian person, 1 thousand is very big. The Nigerian person will definitely be willing to work for that 1 thousand. From this point of view, the company will definitely consider its own profit and hire the Nigerian person

[aoluain]

Something many people are missing in the immigration stats: the largest number of foreign nationals arrive legally with work permits.
This applies to most Western nations.

Politicians will go out with their populist diatribes virtue signaling about crime and undocumented immigration, but in reality the vast vast majority of immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages, and sadly or not too much power had been given to corporations over inviting whoever they want to just pay them lower wages.

Makes you wonder if Trump is going to do something under the table to please big corpo wanting to keep paying low wages to immigrants after he banned certain kinds of visas, of made them very expensive.

In the EU there is freedom of Movement so someone from Denmark who chooses to live
in Spain is considered a foreign national but still an EU citizen.

And in my country there is "full employment" so nobody wants to be a cleaner there are far
better paid jobs available so these lets call them "low grade" jobs are carried out by non-EU
foreign nationals, for example people from Brazil.

So I would say that a siomilar situation may be happening in the US, the low grade jobs are
carried out by "immigrants" and hasnt that been the case since forever but its only in the
last couple of years that it seems to become a problem for people?

And on probably a touchier subject -  wasnt the US colonised by Immigrants - not so long ago?

[stadus]

First, that “under the table” part has no evidence, so I don’t think we should treat it as fact.

And about blaming corporations, I don’t think that is completely right either. A corporation cannot do much if the government does not allow it. Of course, as a business they will always try to lower operating costs, and if hiring foreign workers is legal and cheaper, they will take advantage of that.

If people think that system is unfair or hurting local workers, then the government should revise the law or make the requirements stricter. The rules come first, companies are just operating within them.

[Fortify]

Something many people are missing in the immigration stats: the largest number of foreign nationals arrive legally with work permits.
This applies to most Western nations.

Politicians will go out with their populist diatribes virtue signaling about crime and undocumented immigration, but in reality the vast vast majority of immigrants are entering the west because some corporation wants to pay lower wages, and sadly or not too much power had been given to corporations over inviting whoever they want to just pay them lower wages.

Makes you wonder if Trump is going to do something under the table to please big corpo wanting to keep paying low wages to immigrants after he banned certain kinds of visas, of made them very expensive.

I'm not sure who you think makes the laws, but in most countries it is the government and not corporations. That line is obviously very fuzzy when it comes to places like the USA where lobbying (legal bribery) is so prevalent, but if politicians have a backbone then they don't sway to money over the best interests of the citizens of a country. Globalization has made the movement of goods and people so much more acceptable these days.  Sometimes you do need to import people to do highly skilled jobs paying a better rate than they can get elsewhere. Sometimes there are demographic changes in a country where there is not enough growth from the native population to sustain the economy or do the nastier jobs that they don't want to do. It's easy to blame immigrants but they often do jobs that are not very glamorous and work their asses off to earn something to just survive. They are often the boogeyman when society has bigger problems to solve. I think the real problem is when they don't integrate properly and bring all the issues that they had in their country of origin to a better place, then drag it back down again. There's one religion in particular that tends to be stone age in it's thinking and holds people back from adapting.

[knowngunman]

First, that “under the table” part has no evidence, so I don’t think we should treat it as fact.

And about blaming corporations, I don’t think that is completely right either. A corporation cannot do much if the government does not allow it. Of course, as a business they will always try to lower operating costs, and if hiring foreign workers is legal and cheaper, they will take advantage of that.

If people think that system is unfair or hurting local workers, then the government should revise the law or make the requirements stricter. The rules come first, companies are just operating within them.

It's a complicated issue but you both have a point. Companies can't do anything without government approval, government write rules for them but that's not entirely the case. Corporations know how to play their game too, they don't just follow rules, they are part of the rules too.

Government and corporations work together because they are benefiting each other. They influence each other decisions that mostly affect workers. Government will turn deaf ears to whatever the corporations are doing as long as they are pumping money into economy. Nothing will really change unless the system itself changes.

[Accardo]

And even with skilled labour, a skilled non-westerner is much more likely to accept a low salary for his sector standards as a hopeful long term immigrant than any permanent resident who has many more options to pick and choose from without having to worry about an expiring visa between jobs. Corporations save a ton of money in the long term with a lower wage that immigrants are more likely to accept because they depend on them for the visa scheme in most countries.

High skilled immigrants from Africa gets underemployed in the western world, a third world doctor could take a job as a cleaner in the US to survive the need for bills as an incomer, while looking at moving into the medical field. The challenge is about the first time the immigrant got to the western world,  the person have to take a quick and available job to stay afloat. I don't think Immigrants get underpaid when working out their profession. A doctor in Africa who gets a job in Europe or America in the medical field won't be underpaid for coming from Africa, the big issue is in underemployment.

[Salahmu]

And even with skilled labour, a skilled non-westerner is much more likely to accept a low salary for his sector standards as a hopeful long term immigrant than any permanent resident who has many more options to pick and choose from without having to worry about an expiring visa between jobs. Corporations save a ton of money in the long term with a lower wage that immigrants are more likely to accept because they depend on them for the visa scheme in most countries.

While this is true, would you rather have cooperation go for services that will cost them more just because they want to help reduce the migration crisis or they look at how to manage her resources by getting services that will cost them little?

Cooperation runs based on profit motive and wether Thier action is influencing immigration in the wrong way or not, most of them are more interested in getting services at a lower rate and that's what business is all about.

Cost minimization is what every company and business does so whenever they have any option of low spending with efficient results that's what they would prefer regardless of how the citizens are feeling about it. although I have also observed that most times is not really about the lower pay that encouraged foreign companies to look for immigrants because sometimes they also pay immigrants the same amount as the citizens would receive but however the shortage of skills personnels in the country is a reason why most foreign countries go for immigrants to fill up the space.

[Sticky Bomb]

You might be focusing on one country that does this. Are you saying all counties are like this? That's the bigger question.

Most European countries are like that, the US, Turkey, Germany, Uk. I'm not very sure about France cos I don't have any friends there to confirm.
A friend of mine confirmed to me that some guys working in factories in Turkey earn below What I earn in signature campaign in a month_{upon it is only a side hustle for me}, despite the hard labour involved in such jobs.

I view some of these unskilled labour drift in western countries as advanced slavery. Those who travel with skills are less vulnerable, although a whole lot of them are still underpaid and most of them going with work permit endure a lot until they get their green cards, this is why you see some of them do shitty things like marrying a grandma just to get their green cards faster and be free from such exploitations.