Signature Ban Power

[Upgrade00]

<snip> let him clean the forum and if he makes a mistake we can defend the "victim" and unban them.

For that to happen there needs to be a strong willingness to listen to the community and use that feedback. The only user I'm aware that was unbanned came after the first request for review was denied, followed by several pages of replies with reputable members here accused of bias and their opinion counting less cause they are involved with a casino campaign. It only ended when a preferred (albeit impartial) mediator helped to review and recommended the ban was removed.

Does that sound like a process which values community contributions? How many members will be willing to stick their head out the next time for another user even if they feel a mistake was made? If they do, they would only do this when a decent poster in their opinion is affected, okay posters who are not high quality but still do not spam negatively will just be let to serve their ban.

This initiative should be aimed to take out the worst of spammers but some of the affected users are okay posters in my opinion. This is why I think I'm wrong on what the aim of the whole thing is.

[goldkingcoiner]

Theymos, Are you taking measurements of the current sig noise reduction rate? If so, how is the data looking?

I have not (subjectively) noticed much of an impact.

[Free Market Capitalist]

...

...

I mean for example, is a sig ban on this guy justified - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=882964

Nope imo. Plus, when he was sigbanned there was some drama about it, you can check in sigban appeal thread. Iirc, FMC also spoke in his defense.

I think at the time I said something along the lines of it being the ban I thought was least justified or the one that had surprised me the most. In any case, the ban was for a short period.

But given the uproar that all this issue has ensued, the fact that quite a few users have already been banned, and that alt farms linked to them have been uncovered, I think it would be best to ease up on the sigbans, at least for a while.

[libert19]

...

I have not (subjectively) noticed much of an impact.

Well, most posters banned are from gambling discussion board and I have noticed that users (including 'established') there don't really read each response, but rather mostly — 'read op, respond and forget'. Do you yourself read each response there for you to notice impact? Plus, pages fill up there so fast and responses also tend to be quick thoughts mustered up to fill the quota, so users don't really make an impression to begin with to make you notice their absence.

[goldkingcoiner]

...

I have not (subjectively) noticed much of an impact.

Well, most posters banned are from gambling discussion board and I have noticed that users (including 'established') there don't really read each response, but rather mostly — 'read op, respond and forget'. Do you yourself read each response there for you to notice impact? Plus, pages fill up there so fast and responses also tend to be quick thoughts mustered up to fill the quota, so users don't really make an impression to begin with to make you notice their absence.

Well, gambling, to most gamblers, is not interesting enough to merit having to post half the required 25-30 posts each week (on a Bitcoin forum, no less) in the gambling section. That is just my personal opinion. But if you look at the gambling section you will also see posters with no gambling section posting requirements, and you will find they are actually posting good stuff because they are interested in gambling in the first place.

I do read through posts in the gambling section but only the ones that don't look like they tried to pull text out of their asses.

Maybe what we need is to motivate quality posts. A shitpost wall of shame would motivate some posters not to make dumb posts maybe...

[Lucius]

Theymos, Are you taking measurements of the current sig noise reduction rate? If so, how is the data looking?
I have not (subjectively) noticed much of an impact.

Is it logical that you can see some improvement with only a few hundred (about 200 if I'm not mistaken) sig banned for now? The process is slow because it is being done by only one person, and at this pace it will take months to see any real impact - which means that at least 500 users need to be sig banned to see any positive change.

[Rikafip]

This is from that series where someone forgot to log out and wrote from the wrong account.👀

It can't be easy at all to juggle alt accounts and keep track of and remember all the lies.  

Is it logical that you can see some improvement with only a few hundred (about 200 if I'm not mistaken) sig banned for now?

There is so much activity in gambling board that its hard to see improvement even after almost 200 members got sigbanned, especially since their spots are often taken by the others (who are probably of even worse quality). So its not like they stopped, and no one took over.

Having said that, just looking at the numbers, there is a difference. Below is a chart of Gambling Discussion board (since its the one that is the most affected) that starts from July 1st until September 1st.




@nutildah I am curious to hear whether there will be some sort of reevaluation of those who got sig banned during their ban (like for example in the middle of it) and then acted accordingly? So, if someone improved in that period, to get sig ban shortened/removed, or if he got worse/stopped writing altogether (and looking at the list of sig banned members, many have 100% activity drop) to extend the ban?
 

[EarnOnVictor]

Well, most posters banned are from gambling discussion board and I have noticed that users (including 'established') there don't really read each response, but rather mostly — 'read op, respond and forget'. Do you yourself read each response there for you to notice impact? Plus, pages fill up there so fast and responses also tend to be quick thoughts mustered up to fill the quota, so users don't really make an impression to begin with to make you notice their absence.

Well, gambling, to most gamblers, is not interesting enough to merit having to post half the required 25-30 posts each week (on a Bitcoin forum, no less) in the gambling section. That is just my personal opinion. But if you look at the gambling section you will also see posters with no gambling section posting requirements, and you will find they are actually posting good stuff because they are interested in gambling in the first place.

No section of the forum is entirely free from good and bad posters, and I believe that the gambling section is only a section of attraction due to more availability of new events and the nature of most advertisement here. But I see nothing wrong with that once their campaigners are up and doing with quality posting.

As for your quoted quota above, it shouldn't be stressful for a healthy-brain individual who knows what he's doing, which makes me believe that gambling and the needed weekly tasks are not the problem, but: 1. The few poor quality posters among participants, and 2. Some people are just stereotypical about the section for no reason.

About the meriting, it's not new; as it's more sentimental than you think. Brilliant post are there in the section with no merits, while unbrilliant post are in many other places littered with merits, especially if a particular name is tagged to it.

[logfiles]

Theymos, Are you taking measurements of the current sig noise reduction rate? If so, how is the data looking?

I have not (subjectively) noticed much of an impact.

Why  would he?
We have been through the worst periods of spam. What we are even seeing in the present day is nothing compared to the past esp during the ICO boom. During that time. Case of account farming, spam and account hacking were so high.

What we are dealing with/seeing today is not that high.

[alani123]

I remember long ago badbear would issue bans based on sock puppet activity i.e. similar IP activity on multiple accounts and such heuristics. Why hasn't this been enforced here? Post quality is subjective for instance Fivestar4everMVP being sig banned is unfair in my eyes because he has pretty ok posts, but I can guess there's still sockpuppetry

[nutildah]

@nutildah I am curious to hear whether there will be some sort of reevaluation of those who got sig banned during their ban (like for example in the middle of it) and then acted accordingly? So, if someone improved in that period, to get sig banned shortened/removed, or if he got worse/stopped writing altogether (and looking at the list of sig banned members, many have 100% activity drop) to extend the ban?

I wasn't planning on it. For a handful of members I made an offer to shorten their ban if they can demonstrate a marked improvement in their posting over x number weeks/months. But I will not be reviewing the progress of every sigbanned user. Rather, they should strive to write better posts now so by the time the ban ends, they won't be on my radar anymore.

[stompix]

So, if someone improved in that period, to get sig banned shortened/removed, or if he got worse/stopped writing altogether (and looking at the list of sig banned members, many have 100% activity drop) to extend the ban?
 

I think that anyone with an over 95% drop should be banned again for an extended period of time.
I'm saying 95% because there were a few guys who actually posted 20-30 posts before they realized they got banned, for example, this guy kept posting till he saw he got removed from payment at the end of the week   so that 92.9% drop is misleading.

Having said that, just looking at the numbers, there is a difference. Below is a chart of Gambling Discussion board (since its the one that is the most affected) that starts from July 1st until September 1st.

Yeah...I have a feeling it cleaned one board and spilled in the other:
https://bitlist.co/board/1?date_min=2026-05-09&date_max=2026-09-05&bucket=week

It would be really funny to check the sheets from campaign managers and see how much the gambling post share has dropped, cause I have a feeling some are avoiding posting there more than the required quota and doing the rest on different boards

[snipie]

Theymos, Are you taking measurements of the current sig noise reduction rate? If so, how is the data looking?

I have not (subjectively) noticed much of an impact.

Why  would he?
We have been through the worst periods of spam. What we are even seeing in the present day is nothing compared to the past esp during the ICO boom. During that time. Case of account farming, spam and account hacking were so high.

What we are dealing with/seeing today is not that high.

Just to say that even before ICO boom, the amount of spam was incredibly high because joining signature campaign was so easy because there were no campaign managers, nothing in several signature campaigns. Any full member and above could put the signature and added his forum number to start being paid. Hilarious was the real effective staff member who stepped to reduce the noise. The only solution back then was to ban many members then one of the services altogether.
Nowadays, it is AI which generates the spam and that's another story.

[lovesmayfamilis]

many have 100% activity drop) to extend the ban?
 

The lack of activity from users doesn't seem to indicate that they've left, abandoned the platform, taken offense, or anything else... Most likely, they have other accounts that they decided to “grow” during the ban period.. We've hardly seen any disagreement with the bans among 90% of users. Are they all in agreement? Probably, or most likely, they have other accounts that have remained "for now" in the shadows.

There is no rule that alternative accounts, if one account is blocked, do not have the right to write from another unblocked account on the forum. This means no improvement is expected (since there are alts) since there may be less activity (there is no motivation to pay), but the quality will remain the same.

You should also expect an influx of new accounts👎. For some, the ban lasts a year.. During this time, those who did not have alts will create them.

The forum has the magic of attraction. Not many people are able to leave just like that. Especially when others suggest or propose the departure, rather than the account owners themselves.

I remember long ago badbear would issue bans based on sock puppet activity i.e. similar IP activity on multiple accounts and such heuristics. Why hasn't this been enforced here? Post quality is subjective for instance Fivestar4everMVP being sig banned is unfair in my eyes because he has pretty ok posts, but I can guess there's still sockpuppetry

This is the first time I've heard that someone had access to IP addresses. Was that even possible? The farms are registered on the forum not just via VPN, but from a single address🤪. As far as I know, only the admin has access to such information.

[Rikafip]

I think that anyone with an over 95% drop should be banned again for an extended period of time.

It's perfectly normal to drop let's say 50–60% (or even more) while sig banned. Let's be honest, 99.99% of us wouldn't be as active here if sig campaigns suddenly ended for whatever reason. But to stop writing altogether for 6 months - a year, or however long the sig ban is? Tbh I wouldn't feel sorry for them if their sig bans get extended.

It would be really funny to check the sheets from campaign managers and see how much the gambling post share has dropped

And I see that you did exactly that. 

The lack of activity from users doesn't seem to indicate that they've left, abandoned the platform, taken offense, or anything else... Most likely, they have other accounts that they decided to “grow” during the ban period..

No doubt that many of them turned their focus on other accounts, but unless they change, they will end up the same way. In either case, nutildah can sig ban them faster than they can rank up their accounts and sooner or later they will have to either change their posting habits, or leave bitcointalk for good.

We've hardly seen any disagreement with the bans among 90% of users. Are they all in agreement? Probably, or most likely, they have other accounts that have remained "for now" in the shadows.

That's probably because they don't want forum sleuths to start looking into them, and possibly finding more accounts connected to them. Its not like we don't have plenty of examples of that. 

[notocactus]

You should also expect an influx of new accounts👎. For some, the ban lasts a year.. During this time, those who did not have alts will create them.

Weeks ago, even before the signature ban enforcement, there were some topics discuss about spam, someone pointed out that spam increased but number of new accounts did not increased similarly during the same time (recent years).

Reason is like this, they did not create many new accounts, just woke up accounts like newbies, accounts used for bounty in the past years, and farmed merit when farming merit became easily recent years or months.

A new wave of new account registration can be a part of their long term plan again.

That's one of reasons I said repeatedly that signature ban won't solve spam.

[alani123]

I remember long ago badbear would issue bans based on sock puppet activity i.e. similar IP activity on multiple accounts and such heuristics. Why hasn't this been enforced here? Post quality is subjective for instance Fivestar4everMVP being sig banned is unfair in my eyes because he has pretty ok posts, but I can guess there's still sockpuppetry

This is the first time I've heard that someone had access to IP addresses. Was that even possible? The farms are registered on the forum not just via VPN, but from a single address🤪. As far as I know, only the admin has access to such information.

Well, badbear has been inactive for around 10 years and I don't recall any other moderator checking IP logs.
Maybe it's done a bit more in the background for some cases that might be more of the in your face or maybe nothing is done at all.

[Sandra_hakeem]

many have 100% activity drop) to extend the ban?

There is no rule that alternative accounts, if one account is blocked, do not have the right to write from another unblocked account on the forum. This means no improvement is expected (since there are alts) since there may be less activity (there is no motivation to pay), but the quality will remain the same.

This is quite interesting. It literally means that the new moderation policies barely have any effect?!  Perhaps if, like you said, there are no rules preventing alternative accounts to operate while the main account is on a signature ban, then it is merely a scheme that would transcend, in plenty of folds, the exact madness that we are trying to eradicate. Oh my God!

You should also expect an influx of new accounts👎. For some, the ban lasts a year.. During this time, those who did not have alts will create them.

The forum has the magic of attraction. Not many people are able to leave just like that. Especially when others suggest or propose the departure, rather than the account owners themselves.

.... Hold. Especially for an account farmer, if they have tested already what it feels like to make a couple hundred bucks, say a thousand dollars in total per month.

[notocactus]

There is no rule that alternative accounts, if one account is blocked, do not have the right to write from another unblocked account on the forum. This means no improvement is expected (since there are alts) since there may be less activity (there is no motivation to pay), but the quality will remain the same.

Like driving your motorbike or car, there is a driving license and if your driving license is invalid or suspended, you are no longer allowed to drive your bike or car. That means you are forced to use public transportation or any other means until the suspension period expires, and likely after that you will have to change your driving habit on the road somewhat.

This is quite interesting. It literally means that the new moderation policies barely have any effect?!

There are effects but not much and won't last too long.

The cause is from farmers with many accounts that overwhelm them in posting management.
With many accounts, they can not write good posts, as their brain and energy has to be shared to many accounts.
To rank up, they have to rely on merit sources with easy meriting criteria, their own sources, local farms and friends to circulate smerit around accounts but with shitposts.
After rank up to Full member at least, they can earn money through spam and shitposts while they will continue merit farming and account farming. Along the cycle, the numbers of accounts increase and shitposts daily and weekly increase.

[TypoTonic]

Theymos, Are you taking measurements of the current sig noise reduction rate? If so, how is the data looking?

I have not (subjectively) noticed much of an impact.

TryNinja provides some analytics on this dashboard -- https://bitlist.co/analytics/sigbanned
Preventing 10k potential spam posts sounds pretty good to me. That's fewer posts that need to be reported, and less moderation work for the staff as well.

I remember long ago badbear would issue bans based on sock puppet activity i.e. similar IP activity on multiple accounts and such heuristics. Why hasn't this been enforced here? Post quality is subjective for instance Fivestar4everMVP being sig banned is unfair in my eyes because he has pretty ok posts, but I can guess there's still sockpuppetry

This is the first time I've heard that someone had access to IP addresses. Was that even possible? The farms are registered on the forum not just via VPN, but from a single address🤪. As far as I know, only the admin has access to such information.

I looked it up. It seems like BadBear used to be an admin from around 2015 to 2016, which would explain why he had access to IP logs.