How to improve privacy before paying someone in a safe way?

[takuma sato]

What I mean is the following. For instance you have a public address (public as in also known to the public, such as a public donation address posted somewhere that identifies you, that could be Googled and found). For your own safety, the idea is to hide that address belongs to you, but also not end up with tainted coins that could put you or the receiver in problems eventually.

It would look as following:

(Your public address) ---> (Service or software that improves your privacy) ---> (Receiving address) ----> (Person/Entity puts coins in exchange/pays taxes)

Back then it was very common and everyone used mixers and people understood it was common sense to use them in order to improve your privacy, but given that recently they randomly incriminate mixer users, how could this be solved?

When the person/entity deposits the coins you sent them into an exchange and/or pays taxes on those gains, and if you are unlucky and you received coins that are tainted during the mixing process, they would be in problems and may point to you as the previous owner of the coins. This is a fact and some people live in a parallel reality when they claim "tainted coins do not exist" so im not here to discuss facts, just looking for solutions.

I've heard about aggregators, or certain exchanges that may be useful here and minimize ending up with tainted coins when improving your privacy.

LN is out of the question, im not using that for now.

If someone knows a service/software that could allow this that remains good for your privacy (KYC and Tor friendly) please let me know.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I think what you're looking for is Wasabi Wallet with its new "Coinjoin Payments" feature. Both the sender and receiver gain privacy, and there is no need to consolidate any private coins that creates toxic change. You kill two birds with one stone.

I never had a problem with "tainted coins".

[Mia Chloe]

~snip

Basically what you are asking is to clean tainted coins and you already highlighted one way to do that which is using mixers. Other methods are there too some people can make use of coinjoins instead. Also if I can vividly remember there's a new method around too... Octojoin that combines both coin join and  lightning.

Alternatively you can get a very trusted DEX sometimes a coin bridge fixes the taint on coins more like a BTC to XMR swap and then probably to USDT or BTC again when you feel it's safe to use according to you you can then proceed to use CEX to get rid of tax charges.

[Forsyth Jones]

Mixers or exchanges are not recommended for sending coins directly to the recipient.

For any operation, whether using a mixer or an exchange, always receive the coins in your self-custody wallet first and then pay the recipient. Use AML checkers to verify the score.

This way, if you receive compromised coins, you can use a reliable and reputable solution to obtain coins with low AML scores.

You can exchange your coins on exchanges without KYC, such as the well-established ones on the forum like b1exch, sageswap, and ccecash (I use them quite often).

You can use wallets that support silent payments (like Sparrow, Cake wallet) to further increase your privacy (I believe this doesn't influence the AML score) and agree with the receiver also using it.

In most cases, the service that indicates the UTXO is compromised will request some proof of deposit and other types of evidence that may be sufficient to release the funds, the person you paid doesn't even need your intervention, except in more serious cases.

I think what you're looking for is Wasabi Wallet with its new "Coinjoin Payments" feature. Both the sender and receiver gain privacy, and there is no need to consolidate any private coins that creates toxic change. You kill two birds with one stone.

I never had a problem with "tainted coins".

Doesn't this increase the risk of both parties receiving coins with high AML? Coinjoin often comes with high AML.

[bitmover]

Back then it was very common and everyone used mixers and people understood it was common sense to use them in order to improve your privacy, but given that recently they randomly incriminate mixer users, how could this be solved?

When the person/entity deposits the coins you sent them into an exchange and/or pays taxes on those gains, and if you are unlucky and you received coins that are tainted during the mixing process, they would be in problems and may point to you as the previous owner of the coins. This is a fact and some people live in a parallel reality when they claim "tainted coins do not exist" so im not here to discuss facts, just looking for solutions.

I've heard about aggregators, or certain exchanges that may be useful here and minimize ending up with tainted coins when improving your privacy.

LN is out of the question, im not using that for now.

If someone knows a service/software that could allow this that remains good for your privacy (KYC and Tor friendly) please let me know.

I have several addresses from several different sources.
Some of them I think are anonymous enough and low aml to send to anyone.

For those which are highly linked to my identity (or my forum persona), I usually convert them into usdt when I need to spend.
I convert using some of the kyc exchnages known in this forum, or even hyperliquid.

Mixers are good also, some of them offer low AML coins. But they are more expensive.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

I think what you're looking for is Wasabi Wallet with its new "Coinjoin Payments" feature. Both the sender and receiver gain privacy, and there is no need to consolidate any private coins that creates toxic change. You kill two birds with one stone.

I don't know about their new feature but Wasabi wallet received many questions, discussions in the forum about their cooperation with Chainalysis - not sure my memory is too correct but you can check here. It is like severe concern on why Wasabi wallet team did that while they claimed to provide products for privacy and anonymity for their users.

I never had a problem with "tainted coins".

Likely you are knowledgeable and skillful to do that without problems but with the others, it is not too easy. There are ways to do bypass tainted coin problem but not all people can do that.
Bitcoin Q&A: Blacklists, Taint, and Wallet Fingerprinting.

[takuma sato]

~snip

Basically what you are asking is to clean tainted coins and you already highlighted one way to do that which is using mixers. Other methods are there too some people can make use of coinjoins instead. Also if I can vividly remember there's a new method around too... Octojoin that combines both coin join and  lightning.

Alternatively you can get a very trusted DEX sometimes a coin bridge fixes the taint on coins more like a BTC to XMR swap and then probably to USDT or BTC again when you feel it's safe to use according to you you can then proceed to use CEX to get rid of tax charges.

No, im not really asking that. The coins are not tainted (as far as I know, since I have no control of where the coins that I get have been through before arriving in my wallet). I just want to make a payment without the coins being attached to your identity.

Example, you accept donations in an address, and everyone can find this address as it is public in order to accept donations. Well before paying you want to break this link from that address to you.

Btw, if XMR is involved im going to need an XMR wallet isn't it? What wallet can I use that is not annoying to use? like an Electrum type wallet.

Mixers or exchanges are not recommended for sending coins directly to the recipient.

For any operation, whether using a mixer or an exchange, always receive the coins in your self-custody wallet first and then pay the recipient. Use AML checkers to verify the score.

This way, if you receive compromised coins, you can use a reliable and reputable solution to obtain coins with low AML scores.

You can exchange your coins on exchanges without KYC, such as the well-established ones on the forum like b1exch, sageswap, and ccecash (I use them quite often).

You can use wallets that support silent payments (like Sparrow, Cake wallet) to further increase your privacy (I believe this doesn't influence the AML score) and agree with the receiver also using it.

In most cases, the service that indicates the UTXO is compromised will request some proof of deposit and other types of evidence that may be sufficient to release the funds, the person you paid doesn't even need your intervention, except in more serious cases.

I think what you're looking for is Wasabi Wallet with its new "Coinjoin Payments" feature. Both the sender and receiver gain privacy, and there is no need to consolidate any private coins that creates toxic change. You kill two birds with one stone.

I never had a problem with "tainted coins".

Doesn't this increase the risk of both parties receiving coins with high AML? Coinjoin often comes with high AML.

Yeah, I would never send directly from an exchange, that's why im asking above what XMR wallet would you recommned that is easy to setup, as I don't want to download the blockchain. I could just use Tails that comes with Electrum for BTC, and then install there the XMR wallet to get the XMR and make the payment for the VPN.

As far as AML checkers, do they really work? What free AML checkers work? as far as I know the legit ones are paid and only accessible to professionals.

As far as this:

You can exchange your coins on exchanges without KYC, such as the well-established ones on the forum like b1exch, sageswap, and ccecash (I use them quite often).

So you are saying, I can just send my BTC to these exchanges, sell the BTC for XMR or whatever, and that's about it? How much protection do they give? How long would you wait to get the XMR out to pay for the VPN? I will also need either ETH or some of these USD stablecoins to pay for the service I need. Do these have XMR, USDC, ETH and DAI? which one of these 3 exchanges would you recommend in particular?

Also, as far as ETH and it's ERC-20 tokens, what could I use that works with Tails? I mean for the wallet. I just want to move some small amounts for this so I don't want to download whole blockchains or anything.

[LoyceV]

I just want to make a payment without the coins being attached to your identity.

I think you're overthinking this. Just keep different wallets for different purposes: if you have one known publicly and don't want it linked to something, use another wallet.
Label your inputs and manually send the right one.

Btw, if XMR is involved im going to need an XMR wallet isn't it? What wallet can I use that is not annoying to use? like an Electrum type wallet.

Feather.

[Mia Chloe]

Example, you accept donations in an address, and everyone can find this address as it is public in order to accept donations. Well before paying you want to break this link from that address to you.
Btw, if XMR is involved im going to need an XMR wallet isn't it? What wallet can I use that is not annoying to use? like an Electrum type wallet.

Well assuming you are talking about a mobile wallet the best I can actually recommend for a situation like this is cake wallet. Aside from the fact that the support XMR you can also choose to swap it to any coin of your choice and their fees for swaps are very considerate actually.

Besides it's close to cleaning in the occasion of if the coins are probably tainted. For something like this I suggest a multi coin wallet.

[PrivacyG]

I also believe you are complicating the situation way too much.  Do what LoyceV said and have two separate Wallets for public versus private use or make all your Bitcoin private and then use Coin Control to control which UTXOs are linked, spent and the remaining Bitcoin anonymized again.

[Forsyth Jones]

Yeah, I would never send directly from an exchange, that's why im asking above what XMR wallet would you recommned that is easy to setup, as I don't want to download the blockchain. I could just use Tails that comes with Electrum for BTC, and then install there the XMR wallet to get the XMR and make the payment for the VPN.

As far as AML checkers, do they really work? What free AML checkers work? as far as I know the legit ones are paid and only accessible to professionals.

As far as this:

You can exchange your coins on exchanges without KYC, such as the well-established ones on the forum like b1exch, sageswap, and ccecash (I use them quite often).

So you are saying, I can just send my BTC to these exchanges, sell the BTC for XMR or whatever, and that's about it? How much protection do they give? How long would you wait to get the XMR out to pay for the VPN? I will also need either ETH or some of these USD stablecoins to pay for the service I need. Do these have XMR, USDC, ETH and DAI? which one of these 3 exchanges would you recommend in particular?

Also, as far as ETH and it's ERC-20 tokens, what could I use that works with Tails? I mean for the wallet. I just want to move some small amounts for this so I don't want to download whole blockchains or anything.

I don't use XMR frequently, I've tried it a few times and only have experience with the XMR gui wallet (full node), but with it you have the option of SPV connection or full node. If you want other suggestions, you can follow the tips from other friends in this thread.

About the AML bots, they check if your address is on any blacklist or has any compromising history and give you an indicator from 0 to 100 points, the higher the score, the more compromising, this includes theft, gambling, mixing, terrorism (rare), etc. You can use the free AML Bot from b1exch.io, you can find it in the members signatures space who carry it or access it directly here: https://b1exch.to/Tools/AmlChecker

You don't necessarily always need to use XMR as a privacy bridge. Remember, using instant-exchanges doesn't always guarantee you'll receive coins with low AML, you can use stablecoins like USDC as a bridge as well.

I think Tails needs some manual configuration to install other software like Sparrow, etc. Consult a expert in this area.