Impressed at how bad of a copy is Pragmatic compared to Hacksaw

[swogerino]

So in these new games Pragmatic tries to emulate what Hacksaw has been doing for years, they offer like 3-4 type of bonuses, super spins, super spins with a min multiplier or accumulative like Sweet Bonanza 2500 and they say also ante bet offering 8x the chances to get the free spins which is very funny as sometimes over 300-350 spins it does not give you the bonus, meaning if normal spins would be played it is 300x8 equals to 2400 spins without the bonus. My natural question is who the f*ck plays Pragmatic nowadays knowing such things happen, I tried with free money and also some bonus money and the result was the same, for example in Hacksaw in a game like Le Prechaun you cannot go 500 spins without a bonus and the ante there is 3-5 times more chance to get the bonus and not 8x chance. Can anyone explain the algorithm that Pragmatic uses as it does not make sense at all?

[DanWalker]

8x higher probability does not secure that any bonus will trigger within 8 spin.

In the case of Sweet Bonanza 2500, Yes, Pragmatic Play has indeed presented attribute where Ante Bet 1 option expands our possibility of triggering Free Spin by eightfold.

But actual probability for Normal mode has not been publicly revealed.
Therefore, simply looking at 8x claim does not authorize us to estimate exactly how frequently bonus will appear.

[swogerino]

8x higher probability does not secure that any bonus will trigger within 8 spin.

In the case of Sweet Bonanza 2500, Yes, Pragmatic Play has indeed presented attribute where Ante Bet 1 option expands our possibility of triggering Free Spin by eightfold.

But actual probability for Normal mode has not been publicly revealed.
Therefore, simply looking at 8x claim does not authorize us to estimate exactly how frequently bonus will appear.

Of course they have not published it yet we can see an average by playing not with the Ante bet option and it usually is a maximum of 500-850 spins before you hit one bonus, sometimes going just a bit over 1000. Let's take this as an example and out of 1000 divided by 8 is we should be able to hit the bonus at least once in every 125 spins with the 8x ante bet option enabled. I know this will not always be the case as it is normal, the game and algorithm have what we call variance which in simple words is called deviation from trajectory and I can understand that. What I cannot understand is how come this deviation is so consistent with this provider, does this provider not pass the audits or are just the audits nowadays just a formality?

[BALIK]

..as sometimes over 300-350 spins it does not give you the bonus, meaning if normal spins would be played it is 300x8 equals to 2400 spins without the bonus.

In reality going 300 to 350 spin without any bonus is not mathematically impossible. Regardless, it is a different deck if underlying probability truly boosts eightfold. In that claim, such a dry spell & drought would be fairly unlikely.

For example, if regular bonus frequency is approximately 1 in 450 then after an eightfold boost your chance of not hitting any bonus even within 300 spin would decline to around below 0.5%. Note that this is not actual odds for Pragmatic game. I am merely using it as example to demonstrate the fact.

[Alphakilo]

..as sometimes over 300-350 spins it does not give you the bonus, meaning if normal spins would be played it is 300x8 equals to 2400 spins without the bonus.

In reality going 300 to 350 spin without any bonus is not mathematically impossible. Regardless, it is a different deck if underlying probability truly boosts eightfold. In that claim, such a dry spell & drought would be fairly unlikely.

For example, if regular bonus frequency is approximately 1 in 450 then after an eightfold boost your chance of not hitting any bonus even within 300 spin would decline to around below 0.5%. Note that this is not actual odds for Pragmatic game. I am merely using it as example to demonstrate the fact.

One thing we must realize about pragmatic games is that they are very volatile by design and as in comparison to hacksaw with less volatility and that's just how it was designed mathematically  to function even if the interface design are similar.
That means a gambler needs to play longer hours in pragmatic games with more amounts to spare if they ever intend to get bonus or even win a jackpot amount as compared to hacksaw gaming, which offers more frequent bonuses in short duration of play and a better chance of winning, even if it is not as huge as that of pragmatic games.

[Bitinity]

I am still playing Pragmatic games till today as well as so many other players out there. Your own result does not mean that all players will get the same result but I can understand how you feel when getting bad losing streak on specific game or provider. If I remember it correctly, you were a fan of one specific Play n Go game but you got bad result as well after playing it most of the time and now you are actually expressing the same feeling for different game/provider. Talking about Ante Bet feature, frankly speaking I hate this feature, not only in Pragmatic but also in all other providers because for me it is better to play with normal spin without ante bet. Coming up to the algorithm, no one knows about it except the provider but talking about having no bonus rounds after several hundreds spin with ante bet, I have experienced few times especially with Gates of Olympus 1000. Since that time, I started to stop using ante bet/double chance feature.

[swogerino]

I am still playing Pragmatic games till today as well as so many other players out there. Your own result does not mean that all players will get the same result but I can understand how you feel when getting bad losing streak on specific game or provider. If I remember it correctly, you were a fan of one specific Play n Go game but you got bad result as well after playing it most of the time and now you are actually expressing the same feeling for different game/provider. Talking about Ante Bet feature, frankly speaking I hate this feature, not only in Pragmatic but also in all other providers because for me it is better to play with normal spin without ante bet. Coming up to the algorithm, no one knows about it except the provider but talking about having no bonus rounds after several hundreds spin with ante bet, I have experienced few times especially with Gates of Olympus 1000. Since that time, I started to stop using ante bet/double chance feature.

No I am only expressing my view for the Ante bet which offer not double chance in their new games but 8x the chances to win them. I still play Pragmatic and the old game which devastated me some years ago lately has been throwing 1000x the max multiplier very often and I have won big, the game is Rabbit Garden, an old game without any enhancement like ante bet or double chance to win the feature. My point is these guys do not know how it works when use Ante bet compares to Hacksaw.

[Cointxz]

Can anyone explain the algorithm that Pragmatic uses as it does not make sense at all?

AFAIK, Extra bonus feature has worst RTP compared to the regular and super bonus buy. You can check on the game information tab about the listed RTP since each bonus has different set of RTP which is also separate to the main game theoretical RTP.

I share same sentiment to you about availing that kind of bonus. It’s expensive and at the same time always have low to zero return. Not really worth it.

The only time I like that extra bonus feature is on game like Benny the Beer from hacksaw since the result is consistently fair.

[swogerino]

Can anyone explain the algorithm that Pragmatic uses as it does not make sense at all?

AFAIK, Extra bonus feature has worst RTP compared to the regular and super bonus buy. You can check on the game information tab about the listed RTP since each bonus has different set of RTP which is also separate to the main game theoretical RTP.

I share same sentiment to you about availing that kind of bonus. It’s expensive and at the same time always have low to zero return. Not really worth it.

The only time I like that extra bonus feature is on game like Benny the Beer from hacksaw since the result is consistently fair.

Then it is only natural to ask what is the point of 8x more chance of winning the bonus or even the super bonus as in this game they let you have 8x chance to win the super bonus by increasing your bet 12x of your initial value. Is this another new form of deceiving players by keeping their hopes high while not delivering as what you write is inconsistent with what happens in reality. Even most streamers are complaining that this 8x chance is just another way of cheating the players.

[ryzaadit]

Is this another new form of deceiving players by keeping their hopes high while not delivering as what you write is inconsistent with what happens in reality.

Welcome to the reality of gambling

Just want to share my two cents. I think compared to Hacksaw, Pragmatic Play can still be easily predicted. If you are not hitting any bonuses with at least on range 130-250 spins, you're in the cold section.

Either change the slots or the provider. Don't push it! But for Hacksaw Gaming pretty random. Hard to track, and hard to guess. Feels to ask other people, since don't experience a lots for slots. At least my self have my own experience and gambling fallacy for Pragmatic Play.

[Mr. Magkaisa]

..as sometimes over 300-350 spins it does not give you the bonus, meaning if normal spins would be played it is 300x8 equals to 2400 spins without the bonus.

In reality going 300 to 350 spin without any bonus is not mathematically impossible. Regardless, it is a different deck if underlying probability truly boosts eightfold. In that claim, such a dry spell & drought would be fairly unlikely.

For example, if regular bonus frequency is approximately 1 in 450 then after an eightfold boost your chance of not hitting any bonus even within 300 spin would decline to around below 0.5%. Note that this is not actual odds for Pragmatic game. I am merely using it as example to demonstrate the fact.

I still believe in luck. Well sometimes evevn 1000 spin will not give you a bonus spin,. Sometimes you just need 1 spin to hit that bonus. Every spin we do in the slots has a chance to get that bonus spin. I've been playing both providers and i gonna say that it is hard to hit those bonuses. I experienced before to hit that bonus spin and got max win on my first spin.  It also took a single spin on the bonus round to hit the max. Gate of olympus 1000.

[swogerino]

Is this another new form of deceiving players by keeping their hopes high while not delivering as what you write is inconsistent with what happens in reality.

Welcome to the reality of gambling

Just want to share my two cents. I think compared to Hacksaw, Pragmatic Play can still be easily predicted. If you are not hitting any bonuses with at least on range 130-250 spins, you're in the cold section.

Either change the slots or the provider. Don't push it! But for Hacksaw Gaming pretty random. Hard to track, and hard to guess. Feels to ask other people, since don't experience a lots for slots. At least my self have my own experience and gambling fallacy for Pragmatic Play.

Well, then I am in the cold section pretty much 75% of the times I play the new games with this provider. I know pretty well the reality of gambling yet this provider by offering lots of new enhancements in their new games seems like want attention from gamblers by promising like Trump now things that are plain lies and cannot be fulfilled for the American citizens ( in here gamblers)  .

[Cointxz]

Can anyone explain the algorithm that Pragmatic uses as it does not make sense at all?

AFAIK, Extra bonus feature has worst RTP compared to the regular and super bonus buy. You can check on the game information tab about the listed RTP since each bonus has different set of RTP which is also separate to the main game theoretical RTP.

I share same sentiment to you about availing that kind of bonus. It’s expensive and at the same time always have low to zero return. Not really worth it.

The only time I like that extra bonus feature is on game like Benny the Beer from hacksaw since the result is consistently fair.

Then it is only natural to ask what is the point of 8x more chance of winning the bonus or even the super bonus as in this game they let you have 8x chance to win the super bonus by increasing your bet 12x of your initial value. Is this another new form of deceiving players by keeping their hopes high while not delivering as what you write is inconsistent with what happens in reality. Even most streamers are complaining that this 8x chance is just another way of cheating the players.

If you view it as deception then I don’t disagree with that since all these slot games works in completely random so we don’t know exactly how the hell they get result aside from they are using an “RNG”.

Another way to view it which I personally believe is they are trying to increase options to kill boredom on playing same mechanics over and over.

Some slot players also preferred skipping the normal spinning part and just want to experience the specific special feature instantly unlike bonus buy that still undergo to the normal spinning part then give higher chance for this special feature to occur. Either way, this is why I only play slot as my last resort game to kill boredom on blackjack. 

[danherbias07]

I don't trust Pragmatic anymore. It's a losing game, and not just by a minimum, but like 1 to 500. 1 win for 500 bets. I tried playing their games for a long time, and I can say most of them have a start by losing half of the gambler's balance of the gambler. It's almost always like that. They don't give anything when you start. They take and take until they are full, and that's only when they will give back. The excess. Even choosing the lowest-volatility game, they are not worth it.

Pragmatic Play's developers should really rethink what they have done to their slot games. They are going to lose customers as time flies by because their games are becoming predictable. It's always a loss and rarely a return. Heck, it's not even a game anymore because it ain't fun.

[Donk1]

I think the extra bets options are just another trick to make gamblers spend more money on every single spin. Because if you think about it the slot is certainly insisting that the person playing should pay more than their regular stakes just so that you will be having high hopes that something would happen or you might win the next spin but the reality is that it doesn't guarantee anything. As long as each spin doesn't correspond to the last, it means the game is already set to keep giving you empty spins.........

That said most players just avoid such because Hacksaw is more preferable at least it has actual gameplay. Perhaps to me, Pragmatic will only make sense if you have enough money to risk very quickly just for a tiny chance at a massive payout. That's all.....

[Somegory]

So hacksawgaming has lower volatility than pragmatic play? I will never even know this because I believe that people doing research on such are those who want to find the easier path to nailing a jackpot or easy win.

Anyways, hacksaw gaming do have visuals and they offer unique mechanics and this sets them apart from other competitors, but everyone is free to do whatever they like.

I engage in online casino games to find what I could possibly like the best and this makes me less worried about which game providers are better than others.

[Betwrong]

~ Can anyone explain the algorithm that Pragmatic uses as it does not make sense at all?

I think what they’re doing is copying some of the best features from Hacksaw. If they are not breaking copyright in the process - they are doing the right thing. I personally prefer Hacksaw to Pragmatic right now, but I don’t rule out switching to Pragmatic if they overtake Hacksaw in the race to be the best slot provider.

[Patikno]

I don't trust Pragmatic anymore. It's a losing game, and not just by a minimum, but like 1 to 500. 1 win for 500 bets. I tried playing their games for a long time, and I can say most of them have a start by losing half of the gambler's balance of the gambler. It's almost always like that. They don't give anything when you start. They take and take until they are full, and that's only when they will give back. The excess. Even choosing the lowest-volatility game, they are not worth it.

Pragmatic Play's developers should really rethink what they have done to their slot games. They are going to lose customers as time flies by because their games are becoming predictable. It's always a loss and rarely a return. Heck, it's not even a game anymore because it ain't fun.

I think everyone’s luck varies, especially when it comes to specific gambling game providers. Personally, I find Pragmatic more enjoyable, and more profitable than the other providers I have tried. Of course, I realize that everyone’s experience differsincluding the intensity of play in specific games. Still, I feel like anything can happen in gambling, and I have certainly had my share of unique experiences, whether it is quick big wins, rapid losses, or games that seem to take forever to build up a bankroll (and vice versa).

[Alex077]

So in these new games Pragmatic tries to emulate what Hacksaw has been doing for years, they offer like 3-4 type of bonuses, super spins, super spins with a min multiplier or accumulative like Sweet Bonanza 2500 and they say also ante bet offering 8x the chances to get the free spins which is very funny as sometimes over 300-350 spins it does not give you the bonus, meaning if normal spins would be played it is 300x8 equals to 2400 spins without the bonus...

In this case the important thing to understand here is that “8x higher chances” doesn’t mean the bonus has to hit eight times faster. So even 300–350 spins without a bonus are theoretically possible, especially in a highly volatile slot.
That said, I understand the complaint about Pragmatic. Especially when you compare it to Hacksaw, where the BonusHunt FeatureSpins in some games officially give you around a 5x higher chance of triggering the bonus for 3x the normal bet.

In Sweet Bonanza 2500, Pragmatic really did add several levels of special bets and bonuses, including Super Free Spins and bonuses with minimum multipliers. The first Ante Bet costs around 2.5x the regular bet and supposedly gives you an 8x higher chance of triggering Free Spins.
So I wouldn’t say Pragmatic’s algorithm “makes no sense.” Mathematically, this kind of result is completely possible.

[POPOLUV]

I still believe in luck. Well sometimes evevn 1000 spin will not give you a bonus spin,. Sometimes you just need 1 spin to hit that bonus. Every spin we do in the slots has a chance to get that bonus spin. I've been playing both providers and i gonna say that it is hard to hit those bonuses. I experienced before to hit that bonus spin and got max win on my first spin.  It also took a single spin on the bonus round to hit the max. Gate of olympus 1000.

I totally agree with you because my passed experience on spining always remind me about the whole scenario, i went through just to be able to archived a winnings and yet could not even hit a bonus, I was really under estimating that, since it is just to spin, why can i be lucky to win in a role, by spining up 50 times but before could realize it while still spinning, i spin up to 100 and my win was not much and those winnings couldn't cover all the last i got from spinning in that very day, so i really conclude not to underestimating spinning again and i do find spinning so hard to play compared to football predictions because in spining there is no skills but only based on luck but football predictions there are skills gamblers has figured out and it perfectly works for them most of the time.