Bitcoin heist in the name of running hardware wallet company

[uchegod-21]

The more valuable Bitcoin gets over time the more I believe that this can be possible.

I can wake up one day and device to build my own hardware wallet for the world, I'm going to spend some large amount of money, I get it but the goal is to have the biggest Gold mine at my disposal.

Get people's attention, do buying bonuses and keep introducing patches and updates overtime.
In few years time I will gain the trust of many people, hire YouTubers to do adverts, saying mine is better than Trezor and others.

My goal is to have access to people's Bitcoin without them even realising it until THE DAY.
200 BTC, 1000BTC, 20BTC, you think I'm crazy? It's going to worth it. ..

Then one day I just pull the rug on them all, putting the blame on some North Korea hackers or glitches in the system, like tell me how this isn't even possible?

I had this conversation with a foreign friend yesterday night, since he have the idea about copying codes and baking your own wallet up, and he laughed saying that's some La casa de papel shit.

I think it's just waaaay better to stick with Trezor and old crypto hardware wallet that are open source fully, few new players are coming into this space introducing new hardware wallet while Bitcoin is on its way to 1 million dollars some years in the future, don't bother telling me that this is a joke..

These moth****s can take years to plan this Bitcoin heist up and you won't see it coming, call me crazy 🤣🤣 it's just a thought.

Funny, but there is nothing impossible here. Scammers are really patient people, they can take years investing both their time and money to plan one major attack. They do all of this to gain the trust of their victims and gather enough money that will cover the entire cost spent on executing the plan. I knew about this very long ago when a ponzi scheme entered my country in the year 2014. People trusted them with their money and the scheme became a household name. In 2016, the scammers disappeared and their website shutdown. You can imagine how long they planned that.

This is where we have to advice ourselves to stick  to what we know. If you do not have any genuine reason to dump your already existing old wallet that has proven to be reputable over the years, then never jump on a new wallet that promises you what you can't prove.

[iBaba]

~~~

There are some things that I think you didn’t know that they could expose or stop this your plan, it is not possible as you make it sound. For example how do you want to hide backdoor in the wallet for years without security researchers, even developers or users discovering it? What happens when people trying to vet the wallet or something suspicious in an update? Have you thought of how you would work with manufacturers, employees and other people who can expose the plan?

Let me even say you were able to play your cards, how exactly do you want to move such huge amounts of bitcoin  without attracting attention and those transactions would be more on block chain that can be tracked.

So what I am trying to say here is that there are so many things involved than just building a wallet, gaining peoples trust and pulling the rug. I would really like to know you planned to get all this things I have mentioned.

[PERtua]

Open source is a good layer of protection, I don't think this should be a guarantee on its own. But that leads to another question: Is the software that people inspect the same software on the device that they purchased? Is the hardware itself trusted? All this matters here: Firmware signing, Reproducible builds, Secure boot and Supply-chain controls. Having a backdoor is not strictly necessary if they can break into one of those steps. That's why it's as important as the source code being public for independent audits and users to be able to check out what is running on their device.

[Zoomic]

As crazy as this idea appears to be, I honestly do think that you're not the only person who's had this thought in their head but somehow, you became the one who's bold enough to put out here.

This is another reason why we're strongly advised to avoid putting their entire Bitcoin holdings into one hardware wallet or relying completely on one manufacturer.

This might sound simple but I think it might make people begin to question the the cause of some of the hardware wallet hacks we've witnessed in the before.

[Catenaccio]

This is another reason why we're strongly advised to avoid putting their entire Bitcoin holdings into one hardware wallet or relying completely on one manufacturer.

The advice for DOs with bitcoin fund is splitting it into different wallets, and if possible, different wallets from different wallet softwares and wallet manufacturers. Because one software, one manufacturer can have security issues in their products that can affect your bitcoin fund in these wallets. Fortunately, if you already thought about this risk, and had good practice as prevention by using other wallet softwares/ manufacturers for other pieces of your whole bitcoin fund, you will never lose all bitcoins in one security accident.

Even if accidents are only from your side, this practice will help to prevent complete loss with a single accident.
Manage bitcoin like a whale.

[Karl_3000]

Then one day I just pull the rug on them all, putting the blame on some North Korea hackers or glitches in the system, like tell me how this isn't even possible?

It might sound like it's that easy. Like you just need to set everything up and then let people use it, and then you immediately do a rug pull. Let’s say you actually pull that off, but how do you launder all that Bitcoin? Right now, it’s really hard to convert the stolen Bitcoin into cash without creating a trail that can be traced back to you. Especially with the tighter supervision from blockchain security firms and investigators who constantly monitor your activity, it makes it really hard to move because even one small mistake can get you traced.

What are you saying? Are you not reading about the coins that hackers are stealing? Some are just gone forever, mixed in a way that they can not be traced.

There is a guy in collectibles on this forum that sold bitcoin card wallet to people, some people bought it and one day the person stole all the coins and it was a huge amount of money. Nothing happened till now.

[MainIbem]

Then one day I just pull the rug on them all, putting the blame on some North Korea hackers or glitches in the system, like tell me how this isn't even possible?

It might sound like it's that easy. Like you just need to set everything up and then let people use it, and then you immediately do a rug pull. Let’s say you actually pull that off, but how do you launder all that Bitcoin? Right now, it’s really hard to convert the stolen Bitcoin into cash without creating a trail that can be traced back to you. Especially with the tighter supervision from blockchain security firms and investigators who constantly monitor your activity, it makes it really hard to move because even one small mistake can get you traced.

Exactly what i intended asking, I've thought about his post and his chances of success is high since his plan is long term but if he succeed,  I wonder how he intend spending the money without being trailed or would he be doing it to prove a point and return the stolen funds later. It would be waste of time, resources and energy to steal money that can't be used.

[Faisal2202]

I am not a dev but to do all this, you have to do more than just bonuses, patches, etc. In order to do this heist, one has to win the trust of the clients in a way that the customer would think this is the best option out there, like Trezor was. People even on this forum once suggested other members to use Coldcard in an era, with time that changes.

People are still suggesting others to use Trezor, but Trezor might not be involved directly with ShipMonk, but who knows!

If I am using Trezor, I am not going to test the open sourceness, I am testing nothing, I am no dev, I have to take note of investigators out there and you take care of them, you can convince a number of people that your wallet is better.

Anyway, there are many things that are still in our control, while creating a wallet and securing the seed phrase.

[yhiaali3]

It is a crazy idea but not far-fetched. given all the recent unfortunate incidents involving Bitcoin wallets, I can no longer rule it out. Although it seems far removed from reality, why not? Anything possible.

Even if a hardware wallet company had no intention of stealing users' Bitcoin when it was first established, that possibility could arise later; it all comes down to trusting the manufacturers. But what if they betray that trust? What guarantee is there that our Bitcoin is 100% safe? None.

[Ishicryptic]

As crazy as this idea appears to be, I honestly do think that you're not the only person who's had this thought in their head but somehow, you became the one who's bold enough to put out here.

This is another reason why we're strongly advised to avoid putting their entire Bitcoin holdings into one hardware wallet or relying completely on one manufacturer.

This might sound simple but I think it might make people begin to question the the cause of some of the hardware wallet hacks we've witnessed in the before.

A lot of us sometimes have wild imaginations about areas of vulnerabilities that criminals can capitalize on to steal people's Bitcoin and I know that what OP is reasoning that might happen in the future could be a possibility and it's for us to be informed and remotely prepare for the possibilities of it happening, nothing is totally impossible to manoeuvre. What we can do is priotize hardware wallets that have built trust like trezor, if you must use or recommend a wallet you should make sure to DYOR and I agree with you that it is not advisable to hold all your Bitcoin in only one wallet no matter the reputation. Coldcard has opened our eyes that just because you're using an offline wallet that the safety of your Bitcoin through it is full proof, it's better not to rely on only one wallet for all your Bitcoin.

[ImGenius]

Okay let's say you built a hardware wallet by investing millions or billions of dollars for everyone but the thing is just because you built and advertised a hardware wallet doesn't mean everyone will start using your hardware wallet. People trust something like a wallet the most when someone trustworthy reviews it. You built your hardware wallet and as soon as someone tests it properly they will understand that there is some kind of problem with it and then everyone will start avoiding it and all your investment will be wasted.

I'm not saying it's not possible it is definitely possible but the chance of it being successful is very low and the investment risk is very high.

[Shadiq]

Before you put such a huge amount of money in your hardware wallet, you must face a tough test, build long-term trust. The plan you have made is very long-term, you may succeed or fail in it. That is why it is advisable to use an open source wallet so that everyone is aware of the flaws and workings of that wallet. Although open source does not mean a secure wallet, it can be better and comparatively secure than Closed Source.

How careful can a person who has a few hundred Bitcoins or a few thousand Bitcoins take before choosing a wallet? How safe can a wallet be to store that huge amount of money? They must have the ability to choose a perfect wallet or get someone else to do it for them.

[lionheart78]

These moth****s can take years to plan this Bitcoin heist up and you won't see it coming, call me crazy 🤣🤣 it's just a thought.

It is not crazy to think such possible event.  Scammers and fraudsters are also patience if they knew tha they will really hit it big.  Hardware wallet company pulling such scam is not impossible.  They have the initial control on the gadget they sell, they can easily make a program to relay any activities their hardware wallet is doing especially if their code is not public or not open source.

We have seen some people pulling a scam through loaded Bitcoin collectible coins, since the private address used on those loaded Bitcoin collectible physical coins is created by the seller, he can easily create a back up and eventually clean up those loaded Bitcoin physical coins owned by unsuspecting victimes.  I believe the same thing maybe possible to happen on this hardware wallets

[NotFuzzyWarm]

^^. Is possible as some scammers do have the patience to play the long game. A couple years ago there was a popular online website for generating keys. Of course that is a terrible idea because the site could (and turns out did) keep a copy of your keys. After waiting a few years the folks running the site cleaned out most of the wallet keys that were generated and no doubt retired to some island with no extradition treaties.

Now most hardware wallets are made by companies that have corporate matters and reputations to maintain and as such should be safer to trust.

[CryptoBuds]

I think it's just waaaay better to stick with Trezor and old crypto hardware wallet that are open source fully, few new players are coming into this space introducing new hardware wallet while Bitcoin is on its way to 1 million dollars some years in the future, don't bother telling me that this is a joke..

Standing open source does not convey Trezor is entirely unassailable, dude.
Open source code merely provide you option to audit and confirm code.
But open source code alone won't rescue you if your hardware itself is affected or malicious.
So, verifying your firmware is also very important part.
You shouldn't blindly trust the supply chain, either.

You may know Trezor now execute firmware authenticity check and utilizes Secure Element in Safe 3, Safe 5 and Safe 7 model. So, if you cling to old & outdated device then you risk dropping victim to threat again. To stay safe you must always keep your device up to date.

[Livingleged]

I guess you can also blame supply chain attacks that upload malicious updates to steal users funds, if we're going with "stealing people funds" route. Then again, it depends on how many people actually used HW or softwares that aren't fully open source. I kinda doubt there'll be a lot after the Coldcard incident tbh. But if somehow you can acquire users like that, then it's possible to target them. On the other hand, the amount of people warning others to be careful about their HW and so on will also increase. Especially if they follow basic principle like "don't trust, verify" closely.

Just like I had also thought the COLDCARD it self was fully an open source hardware wallet until after the incident and I made some research about it just to discover that it was not fully open source hardware wallet per say, it was like an open source verifiable hardware wallet, with publicly available firmware and hardware documents, but with some components and licensing restrictions which basically made it to be equivalent to an unrestricted open source hardware wallet hardware wallet.
That’s why when discussing hardware wallet we need to make this important distinction that open source means the code can actually be inspected but it doesn’t automatically mean the code it is bug free.

[Curious T]

If it were that easy, people would have done it. This is one reason why it is always advised that people should use open source. When it's an open source wallet, whatever back door is in the wallet would be seen in the code. Also, there is no guarantee that other hackers will not see that back door and use it before the person who created the wallet. To avoid things like this, just use an open-source wallet.

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

I had this conversation with a foreign friend yesterday night, since he have the idea about copying codes and baking your own wallet up, and he laughed saying that's some La casa de papel shit.

I think it's just waaaay better to stick with Trezor and old crypto hardware wallet that are open source fully, few new players are coming into this space introducing new hardware wallet while Bitcoin is on its way to 1 million dollars some years in the future, don't bother telling me that this is a joke..

These moth****s can take years to plan this Bitcoin heist up and you won't see it coming, call me crazy 🤣🤣 it's just a thought.

Yes, you are absolutely right, because most of the huge bitcoin scams we have ever heard of, nobody can tell if such was an arrange plan like what you just explained above, because inasmuch as lots of profits will be made, i'm 100% sure that there are lots of people who wouldn't mind spending 2 to 5 years just to arrange a heavy and huge bitcoin heist like this, and most especially when an inflencer who they so much believes in recommend it to be better than Trezor and co. And because of this, i think it is a more reason to stick with wallets that have lasted more than 10years in the industry and still very much safe.

[Hamza2424]

These moth****s can take years to plan this Bitcoin heist up and you won't see it coming, call me crazy 🤣🤣 it's just a thought.

Bro this reminds me of the foolproof prank by Key and Peele haha, they will work in the bank as guards to make that plan and to heist in the end after 40 years, haha just watch that reel somewhere on social media, search the same thing, and you will know what I am talking about.

So bro, the plan is massive and really time-consuming, but let's say someone would be able to steal all that money, let's say the plan is now executed by ETF companies like the custodial wallets of Coinbase. They are the ones holding the fortune, but they can't sell?

Even if they hold too much, they can't sell, so getting fewer customers should be the target, not more haha. Knowingly or unknowingly, we are all somehow contributing to this haha, I am out, bro.

[Asiska02]

I think it's just waaaay better to stick with Trezor and old crypto hardware wallet that are open source fully, few new players are coming into this space introducing new hardware wallet while Bitcoin is on its way to 1 million dollars some years in the future, don't bother telling me that this is a joke..

These moth****s can take years to plan this Bitcoin heist up and you won't see it coming, call me crazy 🤣🤣 it's just a thought.

When something like this can be thought of, then there is a high tendency that it can be pulled off. It is better people learn to stick with reliable and trusted hardware wallet companies that are open source, it builds more confidence to what to keep your coins safe in those devices rather than some new hardware wallet company who may be aiming for just what you’re imagining now. I won’t be surprised that a heist like that is already underway just looking for the perfect time to strike.

The recent hacks in trusted hardware wallets companies like Trezor could really push to make this heist an actuality. It is better we stick to relatable ones, they’re better off and some security challenges faced which they’ve been able to covert immediately shouldn’t push people away into trusting their funds with new companies offering the same services. Building trust and confidence in the crypto space is very difficult, but when one is built, people do trust them genuinely and never want to depart from them as long as they don’t bring a reason to.