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Author Topic: "No Reserve" explanation  (Read 7949 times)
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December 31, 2011, 03:21:23 PM
 #121

hey Zhou, how's that recommendation to sell working out for your clients?
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"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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December 31, 2011, 03:23:24 PM
 #122

hey Zhou, how's that recommendation to sell working out for your clients?

I wonder who actually listened to him.

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December 31, 2011, 03:23:27 PM
 #123

By the way, in my opinion what he did should be called market manipulation and is criminal.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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December 31, 2011, 03:31:49 PM
 #124

LOL!  please think of a fix that will make everyone money.

Well, the best way for you to make money right now is to take advantage of the imminent long squeeze.

Price at the time: ~4.2

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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December 31, 2011, 03:37:40 PM
 #125

LOL!  please think of a fix that will make everyone money.

Well, the best way for you to make money right now is to take advantage of the imminent long squeeze.

Price at the time: ~4.2

That's not a market recommendation. I was just saying that I was not going to take advantage of this. And I didn't think anyone would.

You can assume that it's a good opportunity to manipulate the market when Bitcoinica is out of reserves. We had no way to hide the "insider information".

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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December 31, 2011, 03:38:50 PM
 #126

By the way, in my opinion what he did should be called market manipulation and is criminal.

I though Zhou did a pretty good job with Bitcoinica, up until that point. I don't think I'll ever use it after that. Not that there was a high chance I would have used it anyway.

Someone in his position should not be saying some of the things that were said, whether it was obvious to the market or not.

I agree.  Those long-squeeze statements were out of character and a bad move on his part.  Doesn't change anything for me with regard to Bitcoinica.  I haven't used it and don't have any intentions to, not because I think it's necessarily a bad service, but because I simply don't want to get involved in that sort of leveraged trading.
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December 31, 2011, 03:39:06 PM
 #127

I though Zhou did a pretty good job with Bitcoinica, up until that point. I don't think I'll ever use it after that. Not that there was a high chance I would have used it anyway. s that were said, whether it was obvious to the market or not.
This situation only proves that he is an honest guy.
Otherwise he'd just get some USD by selling the customer's BTC.

Obviously bitcoinica needs an investor who'd put some cash in - it cannot go on like this.

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
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December 31, 2011, 03:40:41 PM
 #128

I though Zhou did a pretty good job with Bitcoinica, up until that point. I don't think I'll ever use it after that. Not that there was a high chance I would have used it anyway. s that were said, whether it was obvious to the market or not.
This situation only proves that he is an honest guy.
Otherwise he'd just get some USD by selling the customer's BTC.

Obviously bitcoinica needs an investor who'd put some cash in - it cannot go on like this.

I can see both sides of it.  Overall I think Zhou does a good job of presenting himself and maintaining a good character, though I still think he shouldn't have made the explicit recommendations he did.
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December 31, 2011, 03:41:28 PM
 #129

By the way, in my opinion what he did should be called market manipulation and is criminal.

I though Zhou did a pretty good job with Bitcoinica, up until that point. I don't think I'll ever use it after that. Not that there was a high chance I would have used it anyway.

Someone in his position should not be saying some of the things that were said, whether it was obvious to the market or not.

I apologize for the words that shouldn't come from the mouth of a broker. I was too angry (or maybe excited) dealing with the flood of non-sense and unreasonable arguments. Really, it was beyond my logical control.

Please do not take it as a market recommendation. I just wanted to tell everyone that I was not going to take advantage of the possibility, and anyone who did would be out of my responsibility.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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December 31, 2011, 03:42:11 PM
 #130

I can see both sides of it.  Overall I think Zhou does a good job of presenting himself and maintaining a good character, though I still think he shouldn't have made the explicit recommendations he did.
It's better to do a public "recommendation" explaining the reason for it, rather than secretly betting against own customers.

Check out gocoin - my original project of a bitcoin client written in Go, with some unique features.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
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December 31, 2011, 03:43:48 PM
 #131

I agree.  Those long-squeeze statements were out of character and a bad move on his part.  Doesn't change anything for me with regard to Bitcoinica.  I haven't used it and don't have any intentions to, not because I think it's necessarily a bad service, but because I simply don't want to get involved in that sort of leveraged trading.
Same here, although I thought about buying Bitcoins with all my Bitcoin savings as margin, but ended up leaving it at a test of 2 BTC for 2 BTC, which are up from 3.5.

I’m not going to use it because it’s too risky for me, but if you are really certain about a move (or certain about a bottom), it should be a great tool.

I wonder if the ability of buying BTC on margin will have the same disastrous effect upwards as shorting had downwards?

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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December 31, 2011, 03:45:03 PM
 #132

I can see both sides of it.  Overall I think Zhou does a good job of presenting himself and maintaining a good character, though I still think he shouldn't have made the explicit recommendations he did.
It's better to do a public "recommendation" explaining the reason for it, rather than secretly betting against own customers.

Now I think both are wrong. I'm really sorry about the explicit "recommendation".

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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December 31, 2011, 03:45:47 PM
 #133

I can see both sides of it.  Overall I think Zhou does a good job of presenting himself and maintaining a good character, though I still think he shouldn't have made the explicit recommendations he did.
It's better to do a public "recommendation" explaining the reason for it, rather than secretly betting against own customers.
A post in some thread on the Bitcoin forums’ speculation section is not the place to do a public announcement for Bitcoinica.

edit:

Good to see you acknowledging that, zhou.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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December 31, 2011, 03:50:37 PM
 #134

I agree.  Those long-squeeze statements were out of character and a bad move on his part.  Doesn't change anything for me with regard to Bitcoinica.  I haven't used it and don't have any intentions to, not because I think it's necessarily a bad service, but because I simply don't want to get involved in that sort of leveraged trading.
Same here, although I thought about buying Bitcoins with all my Bitcoin savings as margin, but ended up leaving it at a test of 2 BTC for 2 BTC, which are up from 3.5.

I’m not going to use it because it’s too risky for me, but if you are really certain about a move (or certain about a bottom), it should be a great tool.

I wonder if the ability of buying BTC on margin will have the same disastrous effect upwards as shorting had downwards?

For every BTC shorted at Bitcoinica, a BTC was needed by Bitcoinica. How did Bitcoinica get those BTC? By buying them. You are correct it can have an upward effect though. (The investors of) Bitcoinica provided USD that can be used to buy more BTC, which in turn will drive up the price.

And I must say I agree that the "market advice" Zhoutong provided was unprofessional and out of line for someone in his position. I'm glad he apologized and hopefully such a thing won't happen again Smiley

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December 31, 2011, 03:55:39 PM
 #135

I agree.  Those long-squeeze statements were out of character and a bad move on his part.  Doesn't change anything for me with regard to Bitcoinica.  I haven't used it and don't have any intentions to, not because I think it's necessarily a bad service, but because I simply don't want to get involved in that sort of leveraged trading.
Same here, although I thought about buying Bitcoins with all my Bitcoin savings as margin, but ended up leaving it at a test of 2 BTC for 2 BTC, which are up from 3.5.

I’m not going to use it because it’s too risky for me, but if you are really certain about a move (or certain about a bottom), it should be a great tool.

I wonder if the ability of buying BTC on margin will have the same disastrous effect upwards as shorting had downwards?

For every BTC shorted at Bitcoinica, a BTC was needed by Bitcoinica. How did Bitcoinica get those BTC? By buying them. You are correct it can have an upward effect though. (The investors of) Bitcoinica provided USD that can be used to buy more BTC, which in turn will drive up the price.

And I must say I agree that the "market advice" Zhoutong provided was unprofessional and out of line for someone in his position. I'm glad he apologized and hopefully such a thing won't happen again Smiley

Actually our BTCs come from customers. Since the first week of launch, we allowed BTC deposits until now. BTC deposits are worth about 45%-55% at today's price in Bitcoinica's total portfolio.

Basically Bitcoinica is a pool of shared resources for everyone to utilize. There are limits sometimes (like today, once again, :-/ ), but generally we are very well balanced.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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December 31, 2011, 04:00:14 PM
 #136

By the way, in my opinion what he did should be called market manipulation and is criminal.

I though Zhou did a pretty good job with Bitcoinica, up until that point. I don't think I'll ever use it after that. Not that there was a high chance I would have used it anyway.

Someone in his position should not be saying some of the things that were said, whether it was obvious to the market or not.

I apologize for the words that shouldn't come from the mouth of a broker. I was too angry (or maybe excited) dealing with the flood of non-sense and unreasonable arguments. Really, it was beyond my logical control.

Please do not take it as a market recommendation. I just wanted to tell everyone that I was not going to take advantage of the possibility, and anyone who did would be out of my responsibility.

you know what?  i'm tired of being nice to you just b/c you're a 17 yo kid.  f*ck you prick!

i've rooted out several valid problems with the way Bitcoinica functions.  while i had to do some catching up with exactly how your service works b/c its so opaque, it turns out that most of my suspicions are real. 

and i would posit that NO ONE around here knew that your service could freeze up like this and prevent shorts and longs from covering or buying due to a red flag event.  too bad your short clients will have to be liquidated.  its either you or them who will take losses Zhou.  who will you choose?

the fact that you're constantly having to "revise" your algorithm is testament to this.  the fact that i was able to jam your algorithm as up to 4.95 10d ago is fact, not fiction.

you need to keep your mouth shut.
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December 31, 2011, 04:18:13 PM
 #137

By the way, in my opinion what he did should be called market manipulation and is criminal.

I though Zhou did a pretty good job with Bitcoinica, up until that point. I don't think I'll ever use it after that. Not that there was a high chance I would have used it anyway.

Someone in his position should not be saying some of the things that were said, whether it was obvious to the market or not.

I apologize for the words that shouldn't come from the mouth of a broker. I was too angry (or maybe excited) dealing with the flood of non-sense and unreasonable arguments. Really, it was beyond my logical control.

Please do not take it as a market recommendation. I just wanted to tell everyone that I was not going to take advantage of the possibility, and anyone who did would be out of my responsibility.

you know what?  i'm tired of being nice to you just b/c you're a 17 yo kid.  f*ck you prick!

i've rooted out several valid problems with the way Bitcoinica functions.  while i had to do some catching up with exactly how your service works b/c its so opaque, it turns out that most of my suspicions are real. 

and i would posit that NO ONE around here knew that your service could freeze up like this and prevent shorts and longs from covering or buying due to a red flag event.  too bad your short clients will have to be liquidated.  its either you or them who will take losses Zhou.  who will you choose?

the fact that you're constantly having to "revise" your algorithm is testament to this.  the fact that i was able to jam your algorithm as up to 4.95 10d ago is fact, not fiction.

you need to keep your mouth shut.

Good lord calm down man. 

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December 31, 2011, 04:21:44 PM
 #138

By the way, in my opinion what he did should be called market manipulation and is criminal.

I though Zhou did a pretty good job with Bitcoinica, up until that point. I don't think I'll ever use it after that. Not that there was a high chance I would have used it anyway.

Someone in his position should not be saying some of the things that were said, whether it was obvious to the market or not.

I apologize for the words that shouldn't come from the mouth of a broker. I was too angry (or maybe excited) dealing with the flood of non-sense and unreasonable arguments. Really, it was beyond my logical control.

Please do not take it as a market recommendation. I just wanted to tell everyone that I was not going to take advantage of the possibility, and anyone who did would be out of my responsibility.

you know what?  i'm tired of being nice to you just b/c you're a 17 yo kid.  f*ck you prick!

i've rooted out several valid problems with the way Bitcoinica functions.  while i had to do some catching up with exactly how your service works b/c its so opaque, it turns out that most of my suspicions are real. 

and i would posit that NO ONE around here knew that your service could freeze up like this and prevent shorts and longs from covering or buying due to a red flag event.  too bad your short clients will have to be liquidated.  its either you or them who will take losses Zhou.  who will you choose?

the fact that you're constantly having to "revise" your algorithm is testament to this.  the fact that i was able to jam your algorithm as up to 4.95 10d ago is fact, not fiction.

you need to keep your mouth shut.

Calm down. The spread algorithm has already been fixed, and behaved perfectly during this rally. Also the prevention of people being able to liquidate has also already been fixed. And Zhoutong already said he would take the risk of the people unable to liquidate. I'm not sure how he could have possibly responded better to these problems? It's good, no great, you're bringing up (potential) problems, but there's no need to become disrespectful here.

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December 31, 2011, 04:23:26 PM
 #139

By the way, in my opinion what he did should be called market manipulation and is criminal.

I though Zhou did a pretty good job with Bitcoinica, up until that point. I don't think I'll ever use it after that. Not that there was a high chance I would have used it anyway.

Someone in his position should not be saying some of the things that were said, whether it was obvious to the market or not.

I apologize for the words that shouldn't come from the mouth of a broker. I was too angry (or maybe excited) dealing with the flood of non-sense and unreasonable arguments. Really, it was beyond my logical control.

Please do not take it as a market recommendation. I just wanted to tell everyone that I was not going to take advantage of the possibility, and anyone who did would be out of my responsibility.

you know what?  i'm tired of being nice to you just b/c you're a 17 yo kid.  f*ck you prick!

i've rooted out several valid problems with the way Bitcoinica functions.  while i had to do some catching up with exactly how your service works b/c its so opaque, it turns out that most of my suspicions are real. 

and i would posit that NO ONE around here knew that your service could freeze up like this and prevent shorts and longs from covering or buying due to a red flag event.  too bad your short clients will have to be liquidated.  its either you or them who will take losses Zhou.  who will you choose?

the fact that you're constantly having to "revise" your algorithm is testament to this.  the fact that i was able to jam your algorithm as up to 4.95 10d ago is fact, not fiction.

you need to keep your mouth shut.

Calm down. The spread algorithm has already been fixed, and behaved perfectly during this rally. Also the prevention of people being able to liquidate has also already been fixed. And Zhoutong already said he would take the risk of the people unable to liquidate. I'm not sure how he could have possibly responded better to these problems? It's good, no great, you're bringing up (potential) problems, but there's no need to become disrespectful here.

this is the first time i've lost my temper with him.

if you go back thru the threads, i've tolerated alot of disrespectful comments from him.
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December 31, 2011, 04:25:00 PM
 #140

By the way, in my opinion what he did should be called market manipulation and is criminal.

I though Zhou did a pretty good job with Bitcoinica, up until that point. I don't think I'll ever use it after that. Not that there was a high chance I would have used it anyway.

Someone in his position should not be saying some of the things that were said, whether it was obvious to the market or not.

I apologize for the words that shouldn't come from the mouth of a broker. I was too angry (or maybe excited) dealing with the flood of non-sense and unreasonable arguments. Really, it was beyond my logical control.

Please do not take it as a market recommendation. I just wanted to tell everyone that I was not going to take advantage of the possibility, and anyone who did would be out of my responsibility.

you know what?  i'm tired of being nice to you just b/c you're a 17 yo kid.  f*ck you prick!

i've rooted out several valid problems with the way Bitcoinica functions.  while i had to do some catching up with exactly how your service works b/c its so opaque, it turns out that most of my suspicions are real. 

and i would posit that NO ONE around here knew that your service could freeze up like this and prevent shorts and longs from covering or buying due to a red flag event.  too bad your short clients will have to be liquidated.  its either you or them who will take losses Zhou.  who will you choose?

the fact that you're constantly having to "revise" your algorithm is testament to this.  the fact that i was able to jam your algorithm as up to 4.95 10d ago is fact, not fiction.

you need to keep your mouth shut.

Calm down. The spread algorithm has already been fixed, and behaved perfectly during this rally. Also the prevention of people being able to liquidate has also already been fixed. And Zhoutong already said he would take the risk of the people unable to liquidate. I'm not sure how he could have possibly responded better to these problems? It's good, no great, you're bringing up (potential) problems, but there's no need to become disrespectful here.

this is the first time i've lost my temper with him.

if you go back thru the threads, i've tolerated alot of disrespectful comments from him.

True, and I agree with you there. But no need to become disrespectful towards him just because he has been disrespectful towards you. This forum would become a mess if everyone responded like that.

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