Is this negative trust feedback justified?

[GhostOfBitcoin]

Recently, I received a negative trust feedback from @icopress regarding contacting one of his active clients and offering to run a signature campaign for free.

I would like to clarify the situation.

My management service is relatively new, and we are currently trying to build some campaign history and collect feedback. For this reason, my two team managers have recently been contacting some potential casino/mixer projects and offering free campaign management for a limited period.

It appears that one of my managers contacted a project that was already an active client of @icopress. This was not intentional, and we were not aware that the project was already working with him. There was no intention to take his client, interfere with his campaign, or cause any business conflict.

I completely understand that unsolicited messages can be annoying, and I accept that we should have been more careful before contacting potential clients. However, I am unsure whether this mistake is serious enough to justify a negative trust feedback on my official account.

If the issue had been brought to my attention first, I would have immediately asked my manager not to contact that client again.

So I would like to ask the community:

Do you consider this negative feedback justified and proportionate for this situation, or would a warning/PM have been more appropriate?

I am not trying to attack @icopress or question his reputation. I simply want to present my side and hear an unbiased opinion from the community.

[Fiatless]

I am not trying to attack @icopress or question his reputation. I simply want to present my side and hear an unbiased opinion from the community.

It is very easy to identify campaign managers who run promotions for projects. All you need to do is come to the service board. So claiming that you are not aware that they are in charge of the project is a lame excuse.

Offering free services to projects under the management of campaign managers is very wrong. You are simply attacking their business. You should go and source potential clients outside the forum. Some of these campaign managers work very hard to attract projects. After this hard work, you are now offering free services. Go outside the forum and attract companies with your free service offers.

You have already made a grave mistake. Have you tried reaching out to icopress through pm?  

[libert19]

If the issue had been brought to my attention first, I would have immediately asked my manager not to contact that client again.

This. People in power (i.e. DT Status) or even otherwise I would say, should warn first before bestowing the punishment, so the mistake is known and if there is no correction only then punishment should be inflicted.

[GhostOfBitcoin]

It is very easy to identify campaign managers who run promotions for projects. All you need to do is come to the service board.

Yes, I know it is very easy to identify them. If I look at the list of active signature campaign campaigns on the Bitcointalk forum, I can easily find out which project is under which campaign manager.

So claiming that you are not aware that they are in charge of the project is a lame excuse.

However, I do not want to use the fact that @icopress is in charge of this signature campaign and that I was unaware of it as an excuse. I understand the situation.

Offering free services to projects under the management of campaign managers is very wrong. You are simply attacking their business. You should go and source potential clients outside the forum.

My two managers and I regularly send campaign management proposals to affiliate managers for various casino and mixer projects. We do not rely solely on the Bitcointalk forum to find them; we often gather their contact information via Google and send proposals directly. We have been operating this way for the past few months. Screenshots of some of our previous proposals are provided below.

       

Some of these campaign managers work very hard to attract projects. After this hard work, you are now offering free services. Go outside the forum and attract companies with your free service offers.

Yes, you are absolutely right it was a mistake to offer free management services for a project that was already under another campaign manager. If another user had contacted a client from one of my active campaigns in the same way, I, too, would have first issued a warning via personal message and asked them to clarify the situation.

I do not look for potential clients solely on Bitcointalk in fact, I mostly try to find them through sources outside the forum.

You have already made a grave mistake. Have you tried reaching out to icopress through pm?  

And yes, I tried to contact @icopress via personal message, but I haven't received any response from him so far.

If the issue had been brought to my attention first, I would have immediately asked my manager not to contact that client again.

This. People in power (i.e. DT Status) or even otherwise I would say, should warn first before bestowing the punishment, so the mistake is known and if there is no correction only then punishment should be inflicted.

I agree with you. Especially in situations like this where there is no direct financial loss, scam, or fraud involved issuing a personal warning first would have made the matter much easier to resolve.

If someone continues the same behavior even after being made aware of the mistake, then leaving negative feedback or taking other measures certainly seems more justified. Had I been informed beforehand, I would have immediately explained the situation to my managers and taken steps to avoid such outreach in the future.

Ultimately, my intention was not to interfere with anyone's client or business relationships. Therefore, I believe that providing an opportunity for a warning before imposing a penalty would have been a fairer approach.

[examplens]

Even if the negative tag you're referring to here, someone would interpret it as excessive, because you market it freely and you can offer your service, as far as I can see from the screenshot you attached yourself, you are a spammer.
I see no difference between your spam and any other for cheap viagra. If you are spam ready, offering free services just to squeeze out your competitor, there is a high probability that you used other shady tactics as well.

Here I will give you a free hint. Often, project owners give marketing managers access to official accounts, including those on the forum. So you very likely sent a proposal that the current manager read first. What do you think? How naive you looked in that situation.

[GhostOfBitcoin]

Even if the negative tag you're referring to here, someone would interpret it as excessive, because you market it freely and you can offer your service

I would like to know if there is a specific rule on the Bitcointalk forum against offering free marketing or services. If such a rule exists, I am unaware of it. However, the question I am raising is this: are offering a service for free and receiving negative trust for doing so considered the same thing?

If I had charged a $1,000 management fee for the same service, would that have made it legitimate? Or is the core issue the fact that I contacted a manager's active client?

as far as I can see from the screenshot you attached yourself, you are a spammer.
I see no difference between your spam and any other for cheap viagra. If you are spam ready, offering free services just to squeeze out your competitor, there is a high probability that you used other shady tactics as well.

Determining who qualifies as a spammer is certainly a matter of personal judgment. However, the screenshots I provided show no spammy activity on my part they merely display examples of previous proposals.

Could you point me to a specific rule on Bitcointalk stating that contacting a project managed by a campaign manager regarding a campaign proposal will result in negative trust?

Here I will give you a free hint. Often, project owners give marketing managers access to official accounts, including those on the forum. So you very likely sent a proposal that the current manager read first. What do you think? How naive you looked in that situation.

I also acknowledge that there are forum rules regarding unsolicited promotional PMs, so we should be more cautious about such outreach in the future. However, my question is was a negative trust rating a proportionate response to this particular incident? This is because the forum's trust system is primarily related to trade-based trust, and trust feedback is generally not governed by forum moderation.

I simply want to know whether there are sufficient grounds to assign a negative trust rating in this instance.

[examplens]

I would like to know if there is a specific rule on the Bitcointalk forum against offering free marketing or services. If such a rule exists, I am unaware of it. However, the question I am raising is this: are offering a service for free and receiving negative trust for doing so considered the same thing?

Forum rules do not cover every detail, there are some things that are part of norms of behaviour. For example, there is no defined rule "don't cheat others" on the forum, it still happens, but it doesn't mean that it's acceptable behaviour.

Maybe your tag is not exclusively because of what you offered, but because of the violation of another rule

29. Sending unsolicited PMs, including but not limited to advertising and flood, is not allowed.

[Shishir99]

I won't say the negative feedback is justified, but I won't blame him either.
Sending offers to a company that is already working with a manager is shady as fuck. This is totally unethical, and if I were the campaign manager, I would be angry and leave negative feedback on your profile as well. You should know very well that this market is very competitive, and convincing a client must be too hard. A manager won't let his client go with another manager at all unless the company itself chooses different managers.

We have seen that the brands themself switched the managers, and this happened a couple of times in this forum. But there was no reputation thread drama because the company themself choose to switch, not because the campaign managers were reaching them. You should have sent a private message to icopress instead of creating this thread.

[GhostOfBitcoin]

I won't say the negative feedback is justified, but I won't blame him either.
Sending offers to a company that is already working with a manager is shady as fuck. This is totally unethical, and if I were the campaign manager, I would be angry and leave negative feedback on your profile as well.

I understand that your anger is justified. However, I do not think it is fair to issue a 'red trust' immediately for such a minor mistake. There was an opportunity to issue a warning via a personal message first had the same mistake been repeated after such a warning then issuing a red trust would have been far more reasonable.

In my view, the way a 'red trust' was directly imposed on me felt like an abuse of power. There must be a sense of responsibility and proportionality when exercising authority, especially in the role of a DT member.

You should have sent a private message to icopress instead of creating this thread.

Before creating this thread, I sent two personal messages to @icopress. In them, I clearly stated that I was unaware the project involved an active client of theirs, and I asked for forgiveness, acknowledging it as my mistake. I also assured them that such an incident would not happen again and requested at least one opportunity.

Unfortunately, I still haven't received any response from @icopress. That is why I ultimately decided to create this thread to seek the community's opinion.

Maybe your tag is not exclusively because of what you offered, but because of the violation of another rule

If you have seen the comment on my trust feedback, it should be clear that I was given red trust solely for offering a free service. Had there been any other reason, it would certainly have been mentioned in the feedback comment.

In my view, I did not violate any specific rules of the forum. The forum authorities have already imposed a 7-day ban on me for sending unsolicited offers via personal messages, meaning I cannot make any posts or send PMs during this period. I consider this punishment to be fair.

[_act_]

It appears that one of my managers contacted a project that was already an active client of @icopress. This was not intentional, and we were not aware that the project was already working with him. There was no intention to take his client, interfere with his campaign, or cause any business conflict.

I completely understand that unsolicited messages can be annoying, and I accept that we should have been more careful before contacting potential clients. However, I am unsure whether this mistake is serious enough to justify a negative trust feedback on my official account.

The icopress client will tell you that they are already working with icopress, so I do not think you have any excuse if you continue further contacting the icopress client. Or were you not told that icopress is already working with them?

If you did not know and they did not let you know that they are already working with icopress, I think icopress may remove the red trust.

It is better you pm icopress about it.

[Free Market Capitalist]

It is better you pm icopress about it.

Is is also better if you read before you write because he has already said:

And yes, I tried to contact @icopress via personal message, but I haven't received any response from him so far.

You should have sent a private message to icopress instead of creating this thread.

Before creating this thread, I sent two personal messages to @icopress.

Let's see if, after I made it so big, we don't have more people in the thread repeating the same thing. There are already two of you who've done the same thing, and you two are somewhat quality posters—I imagine the average user on this forum doesn't read anything before posting.

As for the red tag, I don't think it's appropriate because it's not about high risk; it's more as a result of being pissed off. I think neutral would be more appropriate.

[lovesmayfamilis]

It appears that one of my managers contacted a project that was already an active client of @icopress. This was not intentional, and we were not aware that the project was already working with him. There was no intention to take his client, interfere with his campaign, or cause any business conflict.

🤔
It's stupid to say "I didn't know." And it's also stupid if you think it's wrong. this is not the truth, others perceive your attempt as luring the client to their side. And your lack of professionalism (and you show this in your behavior by offering a job for free) should not affect users in the future. Today you work for free, but tomorrow you will definitely want the opposite. If you "went over your heads" to get your job, ignoring ethics, then we can continue to think about non-payments and everything else.

Your attempts are dirty, you should first of all think about how not to harm others, and build your reputation on this. I consider the tag well deserved. Next time, you'll check every detail. (You can probably enlarge the text here as well.)What lies at your feet does not necessarily mean that it belongs to you. Learn to search on your own.

[icopress]

And yes, I tried to contact @icopress via personal message, but I haven't received any response from him so far.

Anything not directly related to Altcointalk is being moved from PMs to the trash.

You received a tag on Bitcointalk, yet you didn't even bother to message me there (on Bitcointalk—where you got that tag).

[GhostOfBitcoin]

And yes, I tried to contact @icopress via personal message, but I haven't received any response from him so far.

Anything not directly related to Altcointalk is being moved from PMs to the trash.

You received a tag on Bitcointalk, yet you didn't even bother to message me there (on Bitcointalk—where you got that tag).

Hello dear @icopress, Thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread. I completely understand that I should have contacted you personally regarding this matter in bitcointalk forum.

However, as I mentioned earlier, my account was temporarily banned for 7 days, during which I was not allowed to make posts or send PMs on Bitcointalk. That is why I was unable to contact you directly at that time. After that, I tried to find another way to reach you. If you check, I joined your @iBounty Telegram group about four days ago, but unfortunately, there was no suitable way for me to contact you there.

Afterwards, I contacted you through my Teleport account on AltcoinTalk and sent you two messages. If you haven't seen them yet, I would kindly ask you to check them when you have time.

Once again, I sincerely apologize for the mistake. Please consider it a genuine mistake and forgive me. I assure you that I will be much more careful in the future, and you will never face this kind of issue from me again.

[SuperBitMan]

And yes, I tried to contact @icopress via personal message, but I haven't received any response from him so far.

Anything not directly related to Altcointalk is being moved from PMs to the trash.

You received a tag on Bitcointalk, yet you didn't even bother to message me there (on Bitcointalk—where you got that tag).

Once again, I sincerely apologize for the mistake. Please consider it a genuine mistake and forgive me. I assure you that I will be much more careful in the future, and you will never face this kind of issue from me again.

I love the fact that you have admitted to your mistake and you have also apologized, I believe that will solve the case because icopress is actually an understanding person so I believe he will remove the negative feedback.

One thing I hate so much is trying to take someone’s job away from them, the sky is too big, look for your own client and stop trying to steal someone’s client it’s actually very bad.
It would have been a different case if the client messaged you and not the other way round.

Now that you have known that it’s very important to check if the clients you are sending proposals may actually be a campaign managers client, you need to be checking and confirming before sending proposals so it won’t look like you are trying to steal other managers client.

Goodluck.

[GhostOfBitcoin]

Thank you to everyone who shared their opinions and suggestions in this thread. I have discussed the matter with @icopress, and following their advice, I am now locking this thread.

I admit that I should have contacted them directly instead of starting a public thread right away. A public dispute is not beneficial for any of the parties involved.