Sigban Appeal for mitchr4

[PX-Z]

I know that receiving or not receiving merits is not automatically indicative that the posts have quality or not.

But I ask: how is it that you only earned 57 merits since the system was implemented?
All of them have been us for the last 6 years
If I'm not mistaken, the merit system is about 10 years old (tell me if I'm wrong).

Probably because s/he mostly post in the gambling boards and it's child boards, where merit activity is relatively low. The ratio of merit transactions to posts in those sections is also quite low, so there are simply fewer opportunities to receive merit there, or people just don't want to send one.

If casino company will choose user that post on bitcoin technical board that gets lot of merits there and regular gambling board poster that earn low merit. Who do you think will be most suitable for the casino sig campaign spot?

Yes this is Bitcoin forum but the signature campaign being in question here is gambling related campaign which is the most victim of sig ban. Just ban casino signature campaign if you guys don’t want members to post on gambling board.

There's no sigcamp rules saying that participants must post only in gambling sections. And why would other members tell you not to post in gambling boards when it is ultimately your choice where you post and whether you make quality or spammy posts?

Managers prefer participants who contribute to technical or other related boards because those posts are more likely to be read by other users, which also means the signature gets more visibility.

In gambling boards, on the other hand, relatively few posts are actually worth reading, some just directly respond to the OP after so many pages already, while many tend to be repetitive or recycled discussions.

[Lucius]

Shit man, you have been here for over a decade, posted actively (you have a whooping 3556 activity points) and you only earned 57 merits. That must be a record.
~snip~

I think you summed it all up in those two sentences, although it's possible there's someone with an even worse ratio of activity to merits. I agree that merits are not the only measure of the quality of someone's posts, this is still an obvious example that the OP would never have become a Legendary member if he had registered on the forum in 2018 or later.

A signature ban of just three months is practically no punishment at all.

[snipie]

A signature ban of just three months is practically no punishment at all.

Even a day is something for someone not wearing signature and avatar at all. The sanction itself hurts more than its consequences for old members comparing to the new ones with 10 backup accounts.
If someone is spamming = ban him
If someone is writing poorly in the right topics = ask the manager to remove him.
Sigban is just sending one message: we don't care about what you write, just don't get money from your posts. Some people even expressed that they are not concerned about that because they don't have a signature so they can spam whatever they want.

[hosemary]

Sigban is just sending one message: we don't care about what you write, just don't get money from your posts. Some people even expressed that they are not concerned about that because they don't have a signature so they can spam whatever they want.

But sigbans usually causes spammers to stop posting, and I don't think there are many users who spam the forum without wearing signatures.
Have you ever checked TryNinja's data comparing number of users' posts before and after the sigbans?

[nutildah]

I understand the final decision is still up to nutildah. I just hope this can be reconsidered, since I've already acknowledged the mistake and I'm willing to fix it.

After this, I will try to add some reason or personal experience when I talk about casino or sports topics, instead of just giving a short opinion.

Sorry but I am not reversing the ban. I'm gonna be honest with you: I don't think accounts like yours should be in signature campaigns. You're not really offering anything of substance to anybody, and it shows in the fact that you almost never receive merits, and not many have come out to defend your posts.

I'm wondering what happened to this guy:

Are the rumors that someone is building a game for this true?

If so I'm looking to buy 1btc of pepecash, whoever is looking to sell can charge me a fee, but im serious. PM me if youre interested in selling me some of the rarest pepe cash.

Also how was the 700 million distributed originally? The devs obviously have a great deal if there was no ICO...Like if the coins were not distributed by mining or ICO... how did they originally get out?

I'm in love with this concept if the devs can make an exchange based on pepecash where you can trade all of the other pepe memes. That would legitimize everything that has become the rarepepe market....

This guy had enthusiasm, ideas, genuine passion & interest. You have none of these things. What happened?

[snipie]

Sigban is just sending one message: we don't care about what you write, just don't get money from your posts. Some people even expressed that they are not concerned about that because they don't have a signature so they can spam whatever they want.

But sigbans usually causes spammers to stop posting, and I don't think there are many users who spam the forum without wearing signatures.
Have you ever checked TryNinja's data comparing number of users' posts before and after the sigbans?

It is normal and expected. We have to look out of these basic statistics. How many accounts saw their activity rising steadily? How many new accounts joined signature campaigns to fill the vacant space? How many merit diverted and used to push alts?...
Nature law. Empty spaces will be filled by other substances. Not always the best types.

[Welsh]

That doesn't mean people should get paid for such posts -- they shouldn't if that's the only thing they're doing on this forum. That's not a positive contribution in any tangible manner, and it shouldn't be considered a standard for others to aspire to.

That is my view point also. Sig bans are for something in between posts breaking rules, and posts being of high quality. Signatures are overwhelmingly used for making money these days. So, sig bans are predominately targeting those that earn money from signatures.

If the posts are so bad, they are then against the rules. Sig bans address posts which aren't quite breaking forum guidelines, but are still pretty poor and ideally shouldn't be rewarded through payments.

In my opinion (in no way an official stance) this is theymos' way of protecting the sort of sub economy that the forum has evolved into. theymos could've just permanently banned signature campaigns because they have been by far the main reason why there's such a high noise to signal ratio.

There's only so much discussion you can have about a football game for example, but it shouldn't be in my opinion a post worth anything, if you could draw the same conclusion through a quick AI summary of the match, and a quick look at the summary of events in a game.

There's nuances that you should be able to discuss if you've actually watched the game, fight or whatever which adds to the substance of the post.

I don't think mitchr4 is the worse example of this. Not by a long shot. However posts like:

I think the same way. Casinos are built so they always win in the long run. But for sports betting, looking at team or player stats can make the risk smaller than just guessing.
But no one really knows how it will end. So maybe it is fair to say sports betting is a mix of knowing the odds well and the luck that just happens.

For me this is just a normal thing, since I am not really into betting on that kind of market. But if this platform adds that feature, hope it does not change how Trust Wallet works as a crypto wallet.
Honestly I always use this wallet to store and send crypto. If that feature can help bring in new users, then that is even better.

(post from quite a few years ago of similar quality also):

Playing Poker is all about strategy and luck, both of which are interrelated when getting a good card, which means we are lucky with the card, we also prepare a strategy so that the opponent does not stand up from the chair and the game continues to finish

Aren't helping their case.


But, there's also a way back from sig bans, its not like you've been permanently banned from posting. I definitely believe mitchr4 and others who have been sig banned could definitely improve their quality of posting. Just clicking randomly through a few pages of mitchr4's posts I can see they are definitely capable of making good quality posts.

[Rikafip]

It is normal and expected

It is normal to reduce activity, but not to stop posting altogether (or at least it shouldn't be). After all, you are sig banned yet you are still posting on the regular basis.

Nature law. Empty spaces will be filled by other substances. Not always the best types.

And if they are not any better than those that they are replacing, they will eventually get sig banned as well.

[TryNinja]

I don't think mitchr4 is the worse example of this. Not by a long shot. However posts like:

I think the same way. Casinos are built so they always win in the long run. But for sports betting, looking at team or player stats can make the risk smaller than just guessing.
But no one really knows how it will end. So maybe it is fair to say sports betting is a mix of knowing the odds well and the luck that just happens.

For me this is just a normal thing, since I am not really into betting on that kind of market. But if this platform adds that feature, hope it does not change how Trust Wallet works as a crypto wallet.
Honestly I always use this wallet to store and send crypto. If that feature can help bring in new users, then that is even better.

(post from quite a few years ago of similar quality also):

Playing Poker is all about strategy and luck, both of which are interrelated when getting a good card, which means we are lucky with the card, we also prepare a strategy so that the opponent does not stand up from the chair and the game continues to finish

@snipie what do you think about the posts quoted above? Are they good/high effort posts? Worth $3-5 each? Are we jailing people for not liking that many users make posts 20-30 times a week that usually look like this?

[notblox1]

In gambling boards, on the other hand, relatively few posts are actually worth reading, some just directly respond to the OP after so many pages already, while many tend to be repetitive or recycled discussions.

This is not exactly true.
I am sure that I can get better information about bitcoin casino, withdrawal and deposit feed in Gambling board, than in all other boards of the forum.
There are very useful boards there like one created by Pmalek in Gambling discussions, and we have good conversation in prediction competition topics.
I recently had to lock one of my topics and create new selfmoderated, so I am personally deleting many spam posts.

[Xiestar]

I think the problem that's been happening is that people are constantly repeating what's already been said (even with different words) because they don't want to waste time writing more elaborate things.

Repetition can’t be avoided in a discussion forum especially in the same subject. Don’t tell me that it’s not happening on Bitcoin technical board when you are answering same issue related to Bitcoin technical. It just update what you are talking but the idea is just the same process on Bitcoin.

This is the same repetition which happening on other board like sports discussion which there’s no ending for discussion. People here just don’t accept it being discussed and paid on a Bitcointalk board which dominantly preferred technical discussion. Again, all this problem will be solved if casino signature will be ban just like mixer or signature manager will stop paying post on gambling boards instead of pushing users to post on other board that they are not knowledgeable.

Managers prefer participants who contribute to technical or other related boards because those posts are more likely to be read by other users, which also means the signature gets more visibility.

In gambling boards, on the other hand, relatively few posts are actually worth reading, some just directly respond to the OP after so many pages already, while many tend to be repetitive or recycled discussions.

Are you being serious same with campaign manager that do this? Why would someone preferred user that post on technical board while promoting casino signature campaign if that board was only being viewed by non-gambler user. Maybe there’s only few but you can proved me wrong by sending stats that casino signature can get a lot of  conversion on technical board.

In gambling boards, on the other hand, relatively few posts are actually worth reading, some just directly respond to the OP after so many pages already, while many tend to be repetitive or recycled discussions.

You will only feel this way if you’re not a gambler or active sports fan. Same idea when you’re not knowledgeable on technical board, politics, mining and other board.


This is a meh post aiming to get +1 for sig campaign by just sending the common banter for this topic.

[snipie]

I don't think mitchr4 is the worse example of this. Not by a long shot. However posts like:

I think the same way. Casinos are built so they always win in the long run. But for sports betting, looking at team or player stats can make the risk smaller than just guessing.
But no one really knows how it will end. So maybe it is fair to say sports betting is a mix of knowing the odds well and the luck that just happens.

For me this is just a normal thing, since I am not really into betting on that kind of market. But if this platform adds that feature, hope it does not change how Trust Wallet works as a crypto wallet.
Honestly I always use this wallet to store and send crypto. If that feature can help bring in new users, then that is even better.

(post from quite a few years ago of similar quality also):

Playing Poker is all about strategy and luck, both of which are interrelated when getting a good card, which means we are lucky with the card, we also prepare a strategy so that the opponent does not stand up from the chair and the game continues to finish

@snipie what do you think about the posts quoted above? Are they good/high effort posts? Worth $3-5 each? Are we jailing people for not liking that many users make posts 20-30 times a week that usually look like this?

I understand that many people here think that I am defending sigbanned people because I am one of them TryNinja. What some fail to understand is that I am against the way we are treated. If I am a spammer just ban me, if I am not but my posts don't worth anything, then blacklist me from signature campaigns and force managers to apply it. I have the right to wear any avatar I want and show any signature I want like any other user here till I am not breaking any rule.
To respond to your question, it is hard to find a defender for this and I will not look for all his posts to have a bigger picture. There are people hired to do that for the forum. My role is to report spam and it is up for staff to don't handle it or ignore it.

[Majestic-milf]

Probably low merit count and only gambling section post's. Since you're on the forum you can't just use the Gambling section alone , lol. You need to roam around the forum since you're using only gambling section you're just milking the forum for your own benifit.
~ it's just my hypothesis lol. Only nutildah can confirm the rest.

I'm assuming you came to this conclusion because you went through their post history or you're just taking a wild guess? Anyways, it's only your hypothesis like you mentioned but I hope your nonchalant response doesn't stop Nutildah from giving them a favorable response though. It's better to make all their posts in the gambling board and they know what they are talking about than to post in general boards where they know nothing other than just to create spam and constitute a nuisance.

[nutildah]

Probably low merit count and only gambling section post's. Since you're on the forum you can't just use the Gambling section alone , lol. You need to roam around the forum since you're using only gambling section you're just milking the forum for your own benifit.
~ it's just my hypothesis lol. Only nutildah can confirm the rest.

I'm assuming you came to this conclusion because you went through their post history or you're just taking a wild guess? Anyways, it's only your hypothesis like you mentioned but I hope your nonchalant response doesn't stop Nutildah from giving them a favorable response though. It's better to make all their posts in the gambling board and they know what they are talking about than to post in general boards where they know nothing other than just to create spam and constitute a nuisance.

If someone can't write good posts, or they are only posting to collect payment, their posts will be bad no matter where they are, and they shouldn't be in a campaign at all. It shouldn't be a question of where low quality posters can still post to collect payment -- the answer should be "nowhere."

This is the Bitcoin Forum. It is a forum primarily about Bitcoin, but its also about 100 other things in the vicinity of Bitcoin; one of which is gambling. There are other facets of life that are at least tangentially related to the other 99 things, but if you want to get paid for writing about gambling 100% of the time, your post quality should be beyond the bare minimum compared to those who post about multiple subjects.

[notocactus]

I understand that many people here think that I am defending sigbanned people because I am one of them TryNinja. What some fail to understand is that I am against the way we are treated. If I am a spammer just ban me, if I am not but my posts don't worth anything, then blacklist me from signature campaigns and force managers to apply it. I have the right to wear any avatar I want and show any signature I want like any other user here till I am not breaking any rule.
To respond to your question, it is hard to find a defender for this and I will not look for all his posts to have a bigger picture. There are people hired to do that for the forum. My role is to report spam and it is up for staff to don't handle it or ignore it.

I completely understand your feeling because this signature ban is somewhat successful but somewhat failed.

It's successful in banning many spammers.
It's failed in leaving many spammers unbanned with signature.
It's also failed in ignoring spam posts by members with good reputation. It's like a pinch of salt into your current pain but it's what it is. Your account was banned with signature and avatar in post display but if staffs or high reputation members have same posts like yours, they will not receive the same ban like you got.

Remember Orwell.
Hhampuz said.
I agree with him because I saw the same thing.

I suggested it here, there, and I really think the merit system need to be changed. Signature and avatar ban can be maintained but the merit system needs to be changed, and it's more important to stop farmers and shitposters ranking up their accounts easily.

[TryNinja]

I understand that many people here think that I am defending sigbanned people because I am one of them TryNinja. What some fail to understand is that I am against the way we are treated. If I am a spammer just ban me, if I am not but my posts don't worth anything, then blacklist me from signature campaigns and force managers to apply it. I have the right to wear any avatar I want and show any signature I want like any other user here till I am not breaking any rule.
To respond to your question, it is hard to find a defender for this and I will not look for all his posts to have a bigger picture. There are people hired to do that for the forum. My role is to report spam and it is up for staff to don't handle it or ignore it.

So you’re going around the forum criticizing the signature bans just because you rather get an account ban if you’re a spammer?

theymos gave nutildah the power to strip you of the right of having a signature, that’s basically a new rule: Shitpost and you might lose the right to use a signature. You don’t get to decide your punishment. Deal with it

[notocactus]

In my opinion (in no way an official stance) this is theymos' way of protecting the sort of sub economy that the forum has evolved into. theymos could've just permanently banned signature campaigns because they have been by far the main reason why there's such a high noise to signal ratio.

theymos had ideas about that and wrote publicly about that idea when he sought for solutions to deal with spamming in this forum years ago. Then he came with deploying the merit system as we knew.

• Ideas for improving post quality.

What are everyone's ideas for improving post quality?

I have mostly ruled out:

 - Removing signatures or sig ads globally.
 - Requiring payment to wear sig ads.
 - Banning account sales.

With spammers, who have continued to farm merits and spam like the forum is a spamming hell for them, they need to read it and know that theymos can take very harsh action like he wrote years ago.

Or they do not actually care about that at all until it is too late

Something is coming but meanwhile the forum has signature and avatar ban in posts.

I'm still thinking about ways to resolve this issue, possibly involving rejiggering how merit works.

[FinneysTrueVision]

I have the right to wear any avatar I want and show any signature I want like any other user here till I am not breaking any rule.

Wearing signatures isn’t an entitlement. It is a privilege that can be taken away for whatever reason the forum administration decides.

Why would someone preferred user that post on technical board while promoting casino signature campaign if that board was only being viewed by non-gambler user. Maybe there’s only few but you can proved me wrong by sending stats that casino signature can get a lot of  conversion on technical board.

SirJohnVonSlotty wrote a very detailed report with many interesting insights on how to run a signature campaign. One of his key statements was in how being an influential user is something beneficial to campaigns.

In my first month, the top performers were members with a strong historical presence on the forum. These individuals consistently outperformed others because of their influence and activity in key threads.

In fact the two users who generated the most traffic for his casino rarely, if ever, post about anything directly related to gambling. It isn’t that hard to figure out why it might be preferable to have intelligent, often highly regarded members of the community in a signature campaign over the low IQ NPCs that proliferate the gambling boards, who are only capable of formulating the most banal content imagineable.

[joker_josue]

This is the same repetition which happening on other board like sports discussion which there’s no ending for discussion. People here just don’t accept it being discussed and paid on a Bitcointalk board which dominantly preferred technical discussion. Again, all this problem will be solved if casino signature will be ban just like mixer or signature manager will stop paying post on gambling boards instead of pushing users to post on other board that they are not knowledgeable.

So your solution is to ban casino campaigns and harm the whole world because there's a group of users who look like robots posting in the gambling section?

Nobody here is forcing anyone to post outside the gaming section if that's their only ability or interest. I've already cited examples of users who make 90% of their posts in the gaming section and don't seem like bots.

Therefore, there are users who show interest in this area and want to develop it.

Are you being serious same with campaign manager that do this? Why would someone preferred user that post on technical board while promoting casino signature campaign if that board was only being viewed by non-gambler user. Maybe there’s only few but you can proved me wrong by sending stats that casino signature can get a lot of  conversion on technical board.

Who said they don't play?
Perhaps the people who play more are those who are focused on technical topics, rather than those who are super active in gaming forums.

It might be interesting to know how many of the subscribers actually used the casino they are advertising.
Many might not answer honestly, but the results could be surprising.

I understand that many people here think that I am defending sigbanned people because I am one of them TryNinja. What some fail to understand is that I am against the way we are treated. If I am a spammer just ban me, if I am not but my posts don't worth anything, then blacklist me from signature campaigns and force managers to apply it. I have the right to wear any avatar I want and show any signature I want like any other user here till I am not breaking any rule.
To respond to your question, it is hard to find a defender for this and I will not look for all his posts to have a bigger picture. There are people hired to do that for the forum. My role is to report spam and it is up for staff to don't handle it or ignore it.

The subscription is a privilege granted by the forum; it's not something that applies uniformly to everyone. That's why newbies can't use it, and low-level members have character limits. Where there are sections in which the signature is not displayed.

So, just because you're a forum member doesn't automatically give you the right to use a signature.

Having a blacklist, so that certain users cannot participate in subscription campaigns, could be an option. Even so, it doesn't stop anyone from using this space to make money while maintaining low-quality posts.

But if that were the approach used, instead of sigban, I think the result would be the same. The users who were on that list would simply stop posting.That's what's happening now with sigban.

[SirJohnVonSlotty]

Just to step in here with my own opinion.

At one point I started being active in the gambling section, giving out some really good points and info that has been quoted and repeated over the years several times. With the post above being just one example.

The only reason I stopped posting is because those threads or opinion pieces would be spammed to death with posts like the one OP wrote in the past months.

In a compartmentalised way, yes, you are contributing to the forum and contributing to the campaign. However, these posts are soulless, and they just attract similar people with more soulless posts and remove people like me who actually want to have a forum conversation.

I fully support nutildah. Maybe some of his moves were too aggressive, but he can be easily feedbacked, his heart is in the right place.

Whoever is against this most likely has a heavy history of similar soulless posts and wants to fight it.

As for that the forum is doing well SEO wise, it's not.

Since December last year all the links from BTT have been flagged as spam by all the SEO tools, and the site is failing each and every Google Search Update. The rankings are also trending downwards for almost a year.