Brazil's Lula bans online gambling. Describes it as "cancer"

[pawel7777]

Ahead of the impending Brazilian presidential election, the current president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, decided to unexpectedly crack down on online gambling.

A few related press hits.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c914ddj21rzlo
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/luiz-inacio-lula-da-silva-ladbrokes-new-york-betfair-paddy-power-b3057655.html
https://www.racingpost.com/news/industry/the-black-market-will-be-by-far-the-biggest-winner-of-brazils-online-gambling-ban-leading-betting-industry-analyst-warns-aHXMd7P84SYj/

He also does not feel obliged to return the gambling licence fees that around 85 companies paid in order to be allowed to operate in Brazil. Those licences, most of which are said to be purchased within the last 2 years, are worth approximately half a billion USD.
I read that that move could also potentially bankrupt some of the biggest football clubs in the country that are reliant on sponsor money from gambling businesses. I hear that he offered them loans to mitigate liquidity risks, but that's just not the same.

Are there any Brazilians on this forum able to provide more insights on what is going on in Brazil?

If the ban goes into effect, the biggest winners would be dark market crypto casinos, which don't care too much about compliance with Brazilian law. I think crypto in general will see increased adoption in Brazil.

[Hazink]

There was a thread about this which have been locked: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5594402.0

This government really wants to chase casinos out of the country, but it's an unfair practice which is also sending the wrong message to those outside of the country that could have been willing to do business with them as they won't be certain of their policy, and they don't even intend on giving back part of compensation for what they paid for, and I doubt those casinos have been able to make half of that money they spent.

[Franklyn-wood]

Ahead of the impending Brazilian presidential election, the current president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, decided to unexpectedly crack down on online gambling.

A few related press hits.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c914ddj21rzlo
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/luiz-inacio-lula-da-silva-ladbrokes-new-york-betfair-paddy-power-b3057655.html
https://www.racingpost.com/news/industry/the-black-market-will-be-by-far-the-biggest-winner-of-brazils-online-gambling-ban-leading-betting-industry-analyst-warns-aHXMd7P84SYj/

He also does not feel obliged to return the gambling licence fees that around 85 companies paid in order to be allowed to operate in Brazil. Those licences, most of which are said to be purchased within the last 2 years, are worth approximately half a billion USD.
I read that that move could also potentially bankrupt some of the biggest football clubs in the country that are reliant on sponsor money from gambling businesses. I hear that he offered them loans to mitigate liquidity risks, but that's just not the same.

Are there any Brazilians on this forum able to provide more insights on what is going on in Brazil?

If the ban goes into effect, the biggest winners would be dark market crypto casinos, which don't care too much about compliance with Brazilian law. I think crypto in general will see increased adoption in Brazil.

This is making a lot of sense here OP. If eventually gambling is banned in Brazil. I will increase the rate of crime for sure, because a lot of youths gets little tokens from there which diverts there minds from deepening in crimes. Some of the sites owner have invested there life savings in this business, how then will they recover from this losses.
I believe there are people in gambling business that have become his targets or just have a bias mind for gambling naturally. All best known to him, at the same time they should be given some time to fix themselves, that's if there is no prior information concerning the ban.

[OgNasty]

Was this move totally unexpected?  I thought I had read about it a while ago.  There is certainly no shortage of examples for why gambling is bad, but a lot of people also enjoy it and it is a big moneymaker, so I'm not sure banning it is the direction it is headed as a whole.  It sounds like this is a move that will likely hurt a lot of people with less money flowing around, but will also probably help a few people who can't control their actions.

[Davidvictorson]

Are there any Brazilians on this forum able to provide more insights on what is going on in Brazil?

If the ban goes into effect, the biggest winners would be dark market crypto casinos, which don't care too much about compliance with Brazilian law. I think crypto in general will see increased adoption in Brazil.

Some drastic decisions with good intentions often have consequences that become opportunities for bad actors to exploit.
The prolific of illegal gambling is what will eventually happen leading to an epidemic of problem gambling a public health concern requiring more money from the government to fix.

[alegotardo]

Are there any Brazilians on this forum able to provide more insights on what is going on in Brazil?

I am Brazilian

And unfortunately this is not just a bill, but it is an actual policy change because the current president issued a "provisional measure" to ban not only bettings but also any type of ads for online casino.
This sites can no longer accept new deposits and users have until October 5th to withdraw their balances from sites because after October 6th the sites also need to be offline.

The president does not decide this alone, this "provisional measure" needs to be approved by Congress to be valid, and the gambling sector is already mobilizing to prevent this to happening.... honestly, I do not think they will be able to reverse it because this is being used as a political campaign... bets has left many people in debt, many see this law as something good and if a politician goes against it they risk not being accepted by the popular vote.

The 85 licenses that government granted, in fact, will not be returned, I think that is veeeery wrong, an absurd! It should be returned proportionally to the amount of license time that the sites would still have had the right to operate...
But, we have a huge deficit, so the government needs this money! They already rob us with very high taxes, now they also want to rob the casinos.

Unfortunately Brazil is a risk for entrepreneurs!

The worst of all is that this would not solve the problem, it will only move people to the black market and to use VPNs.

[Rruchi man]

Are there any Brazilians on this forum able to provide more insights on what is going on in Brazil?

If the ban goes into effect, the biggest winners would be dark market crypto casinos, which don't care too much about compliance with Brazilian law. I think crypto in general will see increased adoption in Brazil.

Some drastic decisions with good intentions often have consequences that become opportunities for bad actors to exploit.
The prolific of illegal gambling is what will eventually happen leading to an epidemic of problem gambling a public health concern requiring more money from the government to fix.

Bad actors don't need to do much to attract gamblers. The government made the move in a move to address the cancer of addiction to gambling. They have made the wrong move in my opinion because they should have addressed the gamblers and helped create programs and orientation to help them recover from addiction to gambling and help the ones that are not yet addicted to stay disciplined in gambling, not by totally trying to shut the door on gambling against them because these people understand that there are other alternatives for them to gamble, and this is where they will turn to.

They will seek alternatives just to ensure they can keep gambling.

[fullfitlarry]

Same in our country the Philippines, the current government wanted to ban it, there were a lot of Senate hearings about it. But nothing concrete came up, we still go and gamble on those so called "legal" casinos.

But there are a still a lot of illegal plowing around here. So yes, the intention is good, but it depends on how the government will enact on it to curb gambling in Brazil. As we all know that gamblers are resilient to find other means to continue their gambling habits even if it is ban on their country.

[RazerMouseMobile]

Same in our country the Philippines, the current government wanted to ban it, there were a lot of Senate hearings about it. But nothing concrete came up, we still go and gamble on those so called "legal" casinos.

But there are a still a lot of illegal plowing around here. So yes, the intention is good, but it depends on how the government will enact on it to curb gambling in Brazil. As we all know that gamblers are resilient to find other means to continue their gambling habits even if it is ban on their country.

It's all just for the show, and I will not be surprised if these huge "legal" casinos are paying these Senators just to cover them up. Hearings do happen, but we need action. Unfortunately, nothing is happening.

As for Brazil, I looked at Google and the government is approximately earning around $1.9B annually in taxes from these online casinos. Now it's all gone for good. We know that banning will not completely eradicate gambling unless they're the CCP (China). On the flip side, this reduces the number of addicted gamblers on the country, but that doesn't mean that the industry will stop there. It will continue to operate underground. Gamblers will always find a way to gamble.

[stadus]

So this is the window.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/industry/betting-industry/brazils-president-moves-to-ban-online-gambling-in-the-lead-up-to-election-acLHw3K56Uw2/

If money remains in accounts after October 5, betting companies are required to credit the amounts they hold to the registered account holders by October 14.

The withdrawal window looks too short for me. I think they should at least give more time, probably around 3 months, not just a few weeks.

What will happen to accounts that are still under review, with withdrawals on hold, or with some investigation or dispute still ongoing? Some withdrawals can already take time because of KYC, security checks or other issues. If the site is already shutting down while those cases are still pending, then what happens to the money? Thats the part that worries me.

[Questat]

Unfortunately Brazil is a risk for entrepreneurs!

That is sad because those entrepreneurs already started building their business, they already spent money, prepared everything and then suddenly the government just puts a stop to online gambling. So what will happen is their investment could just be gone, thats really painful to be honest.

I'm just wondering if they were already aware of this kind of risk before they started applying for a license.

The worst of all is that this would not solve the problem, it will only move people to the black market and to use VPNs.

Thats already given, if online gambling gets banned the government can also order ISPs to block those sites.

VPN is easy to use, but not everyone will bother using one or move to overseas casinos. So if the goal is to reduce gambling access or addiction, the ban can still reduce the number of gamblers.

Also most overseas casinos we easily access are crypto based, while local regulated casinos probably still get a lot of volume from fiat users.

[Charles-Tim]

We discussed about the it when the president was making a move to ban gambling sites that are operating legally in the country, but the president has finally banned the gambling site which I think it not a good move at all.

VPN is easy to use, but not everyone will bother using one or move to overseas casinos. So if the goal is to reduce gambling access or addiction, the ban can still reduce the number of gamblers.

Also most overseas casinos we easily access are crypto based, while local regulated casinos probably still get a lot of volume from fiat users.

In my country, people easily move to how such ban can be bypassed. If it is by using crypto gambling sites, they will go for it. It may or may not reduce the people that are gambling.

[Barikui1]

There was a thread about this which have been locked: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5594402.0

This government really wants to chase casinos out of the country, but it's an unfair practice which is also sending the wrong message to those outside of the country that could have been willing to do business with them as they won't be certain of their policy, and they don't even intend on giving back part of compensation for what they paid for, and I doubt those casinos have been able to make half of that money they spent.

Can they even be able to 100% achieve that?
Because those that make use of vpn can still gamble on a casino that are vpn friendly, that's why I believe that online gambling can't be completely eradicated in a society, because their will always be way to bypass things like that. I agree with you that things like this is very unfair to the genuine gamblers that do it mostly for fun, because they are also punishing those that are gambling responsible added with the addictive ones, but since vpn is available, it will only limit some gamblers to an extent, but it cannot stop them completely. So the only way they can achieve that is by shutting down the Internet, because apart from that, they cannot stop online gambling entirely.

[TopTort777]

Brazilian government wont achieve anything with that ban. In my country gambling is restricted in such a way, that only locan casinos that has local license can operate and be accessible for online gambling. Think that is working? Everyone in foreign casinos, even though all the internet providers claim all access to foreign casinos is blocked In our country online gambling (our local online casinos) act as an advertisement for offline casinos...

[ZeroVinsonN]

This government really wants to chase casinos out of the country, but it's an unfair practice which is also sending the wrong message to those outside of the country that could have been willing to do business with them as they won't be certain of their policy, and they don't even intend on giving back part of compensation for what they paid for, and I doubt those casinos have been able to make half of that money they spent.

It's a terrible decision that was probably made to pull votes to his direction, I think it's going to backfire, the international community won't see it as just a door closed to gambling, if you were willing to take their money and then shut down their business then you are not worth working with, it's simple logic.
Worst off, aside from the fact that it will definitely affect local football in the country, illegal casino will definitely still be operating from the shadows and with the legal ones out of the way they are now bound to make more money without half the responsibility that the previously licensed casinos has.

[Free Market Capitalist]

He also does not feel obliged to return the gambling licence fees that around 85 companies paid in order to be allowed to operate in Brazil.

That's typical of communists: stealing under the pretext of doing good.

I am Brazilian

And unfortunately this is not just a bill, but it is an actual policy change because the current president issued a "provisional measure" to ban not only bettings but also any type of ads for online casino.
This sites can no longer accept new deposits and users have until October 5th to withdraw their balances from sites because after October 6th the sites also need to be offline.

The president does not decide this alone, this "provisional measure" needs to be approved by Congress to be valid, and the gambling sector is already mobilizing to prevent this to happening....

There are similar measures in other countries. As I understand it, Lula has enacted this by a presidential decree, but for it to become permanent, it needs congressional approval; however, if he controls Congress, the bill will ultimately be passed.

The worst of all is that this would not solve the problem, it will only move people to the black market and to use VPNs.

For sure.

[swogerino]

Was this move totally unexpected?  I thought I had read about it a while ago.  There is certainly no shortage of examples for why gambling is bad, but a lot of people also enjoy it and it is a big moneymaker, so I'm not sure banning it is the direction it is headed as a whole.  It sounds like this is a move that will likely hurt a lot of people with less money flowing around, but will also probably help a few people who can't control their actions.

This type of extreme measures only it used when the country majority of people is affected by gambling and it is causing damage. In here where I live in 2019 they put a nation wide on every form of gambling because all the citizens were affected, young people who were in school were putting a parlay ticket with their pocket sandwich money and it was a nation wide problem. I don't know the situation in Brazil but if it is the same I don't blame Lula at all, it will help most people.

[iv4n]

The timing is interesting: "Ahead of the impending Brazilian presidential election..."

Recent polls (like Atlas/Bloomberg surveys) show that around 60% to 75% of Brazilian adults support banning online gambling. In a tight election race, jumping on a measure with clear majority support is classic political maneuvering.

Of course, no politician will ever say "I am doing this for votes":

But Flávio Bolsonaro called the gambling crackdown "populist, hypocritical and politically motivated" during a campaign rally in Rio de Janeiro on Friday, according to Reuters.

If the ban goes into effect...

Congress will now decide how long the ban lasts. The provisional measure takes effect immediately but can remain in force for up to 120 days without congressional approval. Such measures have an initial 60-day term, automatically extended by another 60 days if neither chamber completes a vote.

https://igamingexpert.com/features/lula-kill-brazil-bets/?amp=1

At the end of the day, it's a fight for power, and Lula wishes to stay at the top... They will lose a lot of money in the short term, but after the dust settles, they will find some compromise with tighter restrictions. We all know what that means... higher taxes & fees. After all, gambling is a huge industry, and a lot of people depend on it! A permanent ban will just create an economic mess, and as others pointed out, it will push operators & players to the black market. We can turn it upside down, and always come to the same conclusion... a total ban is not good for anyone!

[xenomorfo]

Brazilian government wont achieve anything with that ban. In my country gambling is restricted in such a way, that only locan casinos that has local license can operate and be accessible for online gambling. Think that is working? Everyone in foreign casinos, even though all the internet providers claim all access to foreign casinos is blocked In our country online gambling (our local online casinos) act as an advertisement for offline casinos...

Obviously you won't get anything, with bans you never get anything.
What did the American prohibition period with the prohibition of alcohol lead to? only on the black market, higher prices
so when these things happen i always ask myself, surely the government wants to foment the black market and speculate on it? definitely yes.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

But this is not the best solution, I can understand that there are lots of people that are battling with gambling problems and have even falling into bigger problems selling properties to fund their gambling lifestyles, but to ban online gambling will not prevent people from gambling, we are in the digital era where anything is very possible as long as internet exists.

The actions that some of these government officials take at times makes me look at them as dumb people but they are not because I feel they purposely do what they are doing for their own benefits, he will present this matter now as though he wants to help people who are facing gambling problem, that's to make people see him as someone that has good intentions for the people but the reality is that it's a political game to win the heart of people, but how this will backfire is that, illegal gambling will spike and the country won't still make any revenue from it. Some other countries have better solution than banning gambling, even though the solution does not completely remove the problem but it is helping them manage the situation.