So the Big One Finally Hits

[PrivacyG]

I searched and found flash drives and CDs can have a better shot, but there is no guarantee for them either.

In theory.  You can protect many things.  Look in to 'preppers', some of them have Dumb or Smart phones ready in Faraday cages stacked one in to another so that if the largest one fails there are multiple layers before what is inside the smallest one gets damaged.  That could protect a Hardware Wallet too.  Or even a laptop if you have the right sized anti EMP storage.

These are not a guaranteed protection however.  No thing is guaranteed.  For example.  In some particular conditions an EMP can deform metals and even weld them together.  Some Bitcoiners have their Seeds stored on metal sheets or washers stacked together.  I have not studied the subject long enough to know for sure but I imagine a powerful enough directed EMP can even possibly deform or weld together some washers which would make 'properly stored' Seeds less secure than Seeds stored on paper.

The best way to keep your Seed secure is by securing it in multiple ways.  One paper and another metal copy may be the best combination.  To protect it against ALL possible events is impossible.  What do you do if in the near future a disaster that has never been seen before happens?  How do you protect it against that!

[goldkingcoiner]

So the day comes that the EMP finally hits and fries a ton of electronics.
How it happens, doesn't matter, carrington, nukes, don't matter, just... it happened.

finally as the grid is re established around the world and the internet is brought back up around the world....

How many Billions of dollars of main crypto do you think is going to be lost due to people not having safe backups of their wallets.  ie metal plate, paper, emp protected storage, etc and they can't recreate the keys to their wallets to re access them?

By main, i mean, major coins,  BTC, LTC, Doge, ETH,  XMR etc that have the largest chunk of the market,  just say the top 10.

How many billions of dollars will just disappear, be orphaned, because it's now irrecoverable?

With that.

Do you have your keys safe on something that can not get erased or burnt up in a fire.

If not, why not?  How much will you lose?

Aaron

What EMP is going to wipe out all electronics at the same time on Earth?

You might as well be asking about things like the apocalypse and rapture happening. I think we should stop considering scary improbabilities that people tend to spread around as FUD even though they hold no real power outside the imagination...

[Churchillvv]

The best way to keep your Seed secure is by securing it in multiple ways.  One paper and another metal copy may be the best combination.  To protect it against ALL possible events is impossible.  What do you do if in the near future a disaster that has never been seen before happens?  How do you protect it against that!

This also means that whatever we call the best method today could be the worst storage method in the nearest future, i will proper never have the best method of storage knowing fully well that there is a probability that some disaster that have never been recorded could occur! however, i think i also have the opinion of multiple storage which will include all the best storage that people suggest.

If not, why not?  How much will you lose?

Now I have kept the seed phrase of the wallet I have in a good and safe place, although I have written it on the paper page of my diary. But I have kept it away from fire and away from water, that is, in a safe place so that it does not get damaged and does not come into the attention of other people who would harm me, because I know that if someone steals the seed phrase of this wallet of mine, I will suffer huge losses. Because all the money I have saved for several years will be wasted,
so I do not want my long-term dream to be ruined due to my negligence. That is why I have kept the seed of my wallet very carefully, not only me, but everyone should keep it carefully.

Always have in mind that there is not totally safe place, so do well to update what safe place mean to you, unforeseen circumstances can occur on natural disaster level so always keep in mind that there is no total safety.

[PrivacyG]

This also means that whatever we call the best method today could be the worst storage method in the nearest future,

It kind of does.  Burying Gold treasures in the ground at a smaller depth was a good idea, then we had metal detectors that would not need any digging.  Technology keeps advancing, we will have to adapt to that.

[PERtua]

The interesting thing is that if there's an EMP, it doesn't have to take the coins away. More dangerous is the loss of any means of reconstructing the private keys. Without a hardware wallet, the coins can be recovered from the seed and with the hardware wallet, the coins are useless if the seed is lost. This makes redundancy in backups more important than purchasing a more rugged backup device. If you have large amounts of data, it may make more sense to have several geographically distributed backups than to have one backup which is protected by an EMP.

[X-ray]

So we need to at least have one hardware wallet on a faraday cage now just in case? if massive EMP happened i'd be concerned about the nodes i.e how many left still functional.

This is also a good scenario where the distributed system like blockchain can prove its resilience unlike centralized system.

if massive EMP like carrington event hits, there must be some node running under the ground that don't get affected.

Apparently in this scenario, a hardware wallet could get wiped out.

[GhostRider25]

Do you have your keys safe on something that can not get erased or burnt up in a fire.

If not, why not?  How much will you lose?

Imagine you seeing a bitcoin investor holding is asset on a non-custodial wallet and still can afford to get a secured wallet or take the necessary safety measures over his asset, then what comes to mind is that what will it take him commit to getting what well secure his assets than the risk he stands to take and end up losing everything.

But i see people taking the same kinds of risks every single day, they have zero common sense.
I race motorcycles, and i can not tell you how many times i see people, they'll spend 4 grand on the newest whizz bang for their bike, but when you ask them to spend some money on safety gear, they cringe, whine and get the cheapest shit possible.  It's like ok so you spend 20 grand on a bike, but when it comes to getting the stuff that will keep you alive on that bike, you are going for the cheapest that'll get you on the track??  It's simply mind boggling how people think sometimes.

Aaron

How many billions of dollars will just disappear, be orphaned, because it's now irrecoverable?

Bitcoin is not stored within the private key itself, so it doesn't simply disappera. However, if you mean an EMP that simultaneously destroys all electronic devices worldwide (including the all nodes), that is a different story.

The notion of losing billions of dollars irretrievably needs to be qualified, as that could simply refer to a market scenario involving a drop in capitalization.

if you take the time to read, I said they'd lose it because they lost their keys and can't open the wallet anymore to get to it.

aaron

It wouldn't be as simple as that, and i promise you that you wouldn't worry about your BTC if it happens, but to live through it. We're not just talking about the loss of 'a ton of electronics', but the power grids would go too, so no electricity, and EVERYTHING that's powered through it, no water too and a lot of other things necessary for survival. You'd gladly trade all your BTC's for food, water and power if it ever happens, wouldn't you.

We have had many discussions like this in the past, especially about what would happen to Bitcoin if the internet disappeared. To me, these are somewhat unrealistic scenarios to focus our minds on. The chances of such a huge event affecting the world are very slim. And like you said, if something like that ever happened, I don't think anyone would even be worried about their BTC. It would probably be the last thing on your mind while trying to figure out how to survive and get through the situation.

I normally don't like these kinds of discussions because they are difficult to relate to real life experience.

then don't participate if you don't like this type of discussion, it's really simple.

Aaron

[mod note: merged consecutive posts]

[Sim_card]

Your bitcoin wouldn't be affected because it's on the blockchain. It's good to set up a metal box called Faraday metal box and store your seed phrase in it because EMP cannot affect it.  This is why it's also advisable to have duplicate of your seed phrase and passphrase in different locations far from each other. I hope EMP wouldn't come in this our generation because it's gon be a bad experience. Any electronic built with chips will be gone

[Somegory]

Why the EMP part though? Isn't that taking things too far? I'd rather be very careful with my recovery seed and atleast have two different locations to hide the recovery seeds then hope for the best.

Fire breaking out is possible but don't allow it, precaution is better than cure, do things that won't start a fire in your home, natural disaster happens in some countries more than others, I've never seen one happening in mu country.

If you are from such countries then be prepared, if I am from such places I would carve my recovery seeds on stainless steel and make a chain out of it, then close the gap by sealing two steels together and wearing it around my neck wherever I go.

[RGBTC]

if you take the time to read, I said they'd lose it because they lost their keys and can't open the wallet anymore to get to it.

aaron

You are the one who needs to do more reading;
I stated that Bitcoin is not stored in the private key itself, so how could it possibly disappear from the supply? In fact, right now, random guys could claim ownership of dormant Bitcoin without actually having access to it.
Nothing will happen to Bitcoin overall, not even in the wildest of fantasies.

[Z-tight]

then don't participate if you don't like this type of discussion, it's really simple.

Aaron

Stop making multiple posts in a row, put all of them in one post. It goes against the rules and makes the thread untidy too.

If you are from such countries then be prepared, if I am from such places I would carve my recovery seeds on stainless steel and make a chain out of it, then close the gap by sealing two steels together and wearing it around my neck wherever I go.

Wearing a chain with your seed phrase on it does not sound like a good idea. I know when people try to improvise with storing their seeds, they come up with these 'cute' ideas, like this one, but in reality, it is actually putting your funds in more danger than you are trying to avoid. Even if you live in a location prone to natural disasters, there are better ways to mitigate the risk, than having your seed words with you all the time.

[oll]

If not, why not?  How much will you lose?

Aaron

If the apocalypse happens, I don't plan on losing my smartphone. I'll definitely carry it with me at all times. And since my Bitcoin is stored in a trust wallet, I can restore my phrase. I'll build a Dynamo-machine and charge my phone. Plus, we all know the Bitcoin paradigm, so we can rebuild the Bitcoin community.
Paper money, however, would be a great fuel for fires, because who would need that paper anyway? It's hard to argue with a new society with dollars, and everything will have to be rewritten, immediately adopting the principles of Satoshi Nakamoto, lest the world fall into a dollar-driven dead end again.