Bitcoin could become digital gold ... and then the digital Swiss Franc

[d5000]

In the recent thread about the "Bitcoin branding process" I thought about how Bitcoin is "branded" currently.

I think the current most popular narrative is that Bitcoin is still a speculative asset, but with the potential to be a digital gold.

Now we all know that Satoshi designed Bitcoin as a "peer to peer cash". So ... could Bitcoin ever be "re-branded" as a "currency" or "cash"?

I think a good target for the next decades is that Bitcoin could be the digital Swiss Franc.

Since 2003, the Swiss Franc has won 62% against the US dollar: it was worth 0.74 USD in 2003 and is now worth 1.20 (it even went to 1.25 early this year, almost a 70% increase).

Bitcoin as the Digital Swiss Franc would be an attractive long time scenario: Bitcoin protecting you from inflation and even maybe giving you a small profit (according to your local inflation), but at the same time, be a stable and usable currency, not an asset where you have to look all the time at the chart to not miss an opportunity.

What do you folks think? I'm sure it's still too early and we'll probably first proceed into the Digital Gold era (if Bitcoin's success continues). But then: would you consider it a good thing if Bitcoin matures further and gets considered the Digital Swiss Franc? Or would you prefer a little volatility, like with gold?

[Pikiboy]

What do you folks think? I'm sure it's still too early and we'll probably first proceed into the Digital Gold era (if Bitcoin's success continues). But then: would you consider it a good thing if Bitcoin matures further and gets considered the Digital Swiss Franc? Or would you prefer a little volatility, like with gold?

I am not expecting any change in Bitcoin sooner or later neither would it be seen and subjected to be as digital swiss franc. Satoshi knows what he designed and there would be no change in Bitcoin even till the next 3 decades to come. People has always seen the value were as they now took it as an investment tools, and irrespective as that Bitcoin would always remain a volatile assets as it because this what makes it more tradable as an assets. Bitcoin, as we know is already regarded as the digital Gold which would be volatile as it is currently.

Side note: if there is any changes in Bitcoin then definitely the halving would also be affected. Except there wouldn't be any like halving then Bitcoin could tends to be more less volatile such more of as Digital Swiss Franc as you may assumed.

[d5000]

Bitcoin would always remain a volatile assets as it because this what makes it more tradable as an assets.

The idea behind this thread is based on the observation that the volatility of the Bitcoin price is constantly declining. This is a fact, we can speculate how fast it will continue in the future, but logic says that if adoption / volume / liquidity increases then the trend will continue.

Side note: if there is any changes in Bitcoin then definitely the halving would also be affected. Except there wouldn't be any like halving then Bitcoin could tends to be more less volatile such more of as Digital Swiss Franc as you may assumed.

No, I'm not talking about a protocol change,  but about a "narrative change".

Even if Bitcoin supply is "static" i.e. no new emissions are recorded (there is actually some supply inflation until 2140): The world is transitioning towards low population growth. This will also mean less economic growth. And thus a Bitcoin-like asset with static supply, in the late 21th century, will not grow as much as today (even if considering let's say something like 0.1% lost coins per year). It will be able to counter inflation and yield a small profit but not much more, once adoption has become "saturated".

[alani123]

Bitcoin has a long time coming to become anything. Bitcoin foundation, miner consortium whatever whatever, all groups failed to steer it to one direction or the other. In terms of having an identity or preferred utility in it's marketing, it also doesn't.

Where are we now? The hedgies took over. Most retail investment exposure to BTC happens through MicroStrategy. Fuck decentralisation and antisystemic sentiments amirite? People were ready to deep throat yet another retail investment scam all along. With the right administration in the US this industry became so big that the next government will now be afraid to wind it down.

[Oshosondy]

I do not think bitcoin can be considered as a digital Swiss Franc. I know you are referring to it to be gradually increasing in price, but at a low pace. I think bitcoin will mimic the price of gold better in a way the price may fall for some time but the volatility will be reduce as usual and later the price will increase and get to all time high.

Also see what happened to gold in 2023 to 2025, that can later happen to bitcoin even when the marketcap has already increased so much.

Another thing is that Swiss Francs can be stronger than United States dollar, but it still has fiat characteristics which is long term devaluation, bitcoin will be the opposite of that.

[Btcdeybodi]

What do you folks think? I'm sure it's still too early and we'll probably first proceed into the Digital Gold era (if Bitcoin's success continues). But then: would you consider it a good thing if Bitcoin matures further and gets considered the Digital Swiss Franc? Or would you prefer a little volatility, like with gold?

If Bitcoin moves to become the Digital Swiss Franc it then mean that it will lose its volatile nature since it will become stable and usable at the same time. However, it will be controlled by the Swiss National Bank which is a kind of moving away from decentralization and they can extend its limited supply thereby losing its scarcity and cause inflation.

I still want Bitcoin to be volatile so that it doesn't start losing its value and take the form of fiat currency. I want Bitcoin to transition into the Digital Gold era then I don't care about what it turns out next.

[Questat]

The Swiss Franc is backed by a central bank that can make monetary changes over time, Bitcoin does not have that, so Bitcoin does not really fit to be called a digital Swiss Franc. What I see in the future, if Bitcoin continues to succeed, with liquidity increasing and adoption growing as well, the 10% to 15% volatility we are seeing today may no longer happen as often. And with that, I think it is still best fit to be called digital gold.

[PostQuantumBTC]

If Bitcoin moves to become the Digital Swiss Franc it then mean that it will lose its volatile nature since it will become stable and usable at the same time.

Swiss Franc is not stable, fiat are not stable, they are also all volatile but how they are volatile is low in a way the government can be able to deceive people. If they are stable, there will not be forex trading. But you are right that it is controlled by the government unlike bitcoin price that is determined by what is happening in the market.

[Proty]

I think a time will come in the future when bitcoin won't just be an asset that people are buying because they are speculating on the price to increase. Many who are buying bitcoin see it as an investment rather than as a means of transaction.
As for me , I would like the price of bitcoin to become stable , so that people can be able to save it and use it for transactions without bothering about the price. However this is not something that can  happen immediately because of the volatile nature of bitcoin.
The aspect of bitcoin becoming  a digital gold is also one thing that can be achieved in the future, because of widespread adoption but for it to become a digital swiss franc, is something I don't think is possible, because of decentralisation. Therefore, I believe that bitcoin can serve as a store of value and also be used for daily transactions and not just to be seen as a store of value.

[d5000]

Where are we now? The hedgies took over.

I don't see that as an impedement for the narrative change to "digital gold" and then to the "digital Swiss Franc". Even if the "real Bitcoin" has definitely centralization issues on the "custodian layer", it can still be used like Satoshi envisioned it. IMO the dangers of private whales are overrated. They probably would not even try to counter the "digital gold" narrative and also not the "digital swiss franc" narrative, because both would yield them profits.

The Swiss Franc is backed by a central bank that can make monetary changes over time, Bitcoin does not have that, so Bitcoin does not really fit to be called a digital Swiss Franc.

You're of course correct, but that's not really the point: the gold industry also works differently than the Bitcoin mining "game" (incentives/game theory).

Gold has still crashes up to 50% (e.g. 1980s-2000 and 2009 to the late 2010s) and the bubble last year was followed by a fast ~30% crash. This is not enough stability for people to forget the price and the charts. Bitcoin could do better, because it can also be used for payments and thus has potentially a much higher liquidity than gold -- every payment is a buy and a sell order [1] at the same time and adds to the liquidity.


[1] the merchant (or the payment processor, e.g. Coingate) acts as the buyer, and the customer as the seller.

[Dogedegen]

The only two people that voted before me have voted no, so I am the first yes voter.   Besides the skepticism, I see that a lot of users are misunderstanding how these things happen. There is no centralized group that would steer Bitcoin to become something, it evolves in a free market on its own. Consensus of what it is keeps changing, so fixed ideas on what can or can't happen seems incorrect. Maybe the problem with your question is that it means it will happen, if you could change it to ask if it is possible for it to happen then it would be better. That is the intent behind my answer of yes, I think it is possible but I can't be sure it will happen.

I am not expecting any change in Bitcoin sooner or later neither would it be seen and subjected to be as digital swiss franc. Satoshi knows what he designed and there would be no change in Bitcoin even till the next 3 decades to come. People has always seen the value were as they now took it as an investment tools, and irrespective as that Bitcoin would always remain a volatile assets as it because this what makes it more tradable as an assets. Bitcoin, as we know is already regarded as the digital Gold which would be volatile as it is currently.

For example this does not seem true at all, gold is also volatile even if it is less volatile than Bitcoin. It has periods where its volatility is greater and when it is lower, its own volatility does not impact its position as gold. The author of this topic has also mentioned that the volatility is steadily decreasing, so saying that it would always remain volatile is quite strange because it is logically wrong.

Gold has still crashes up to 50% (e.g. 1980s-2000 and 2009 to the late 2010s) and the bubble last year was followed by a fast ~30% crash. This is not enough stability for people to forget the price and the charts. Bitcoin could do better, because it can also be used for payments and thus has potentially a much higher liquidity than gold -- every payment is a buy and a sell order [1] at the same time and adds to the liquidity.

I think users are obessed too much with the word vollatile because of too much exposure to media propaganda and lies. Even the most stable thing is volatile, it just has a low volatility. Bitcoin has demonstrated that its volatility is going down. There is not a single economic or logical reason for which we could objectively declare that its volatility can not be equal to gold's or even lower one day. Absolutist claims seem quite wrong because there is nothing that is backing them up.

What do you folks think? I'm sure it's still too early and we'll probably first proceed into the Digital Gold era (if Bitcoin's success continues). But then: would you consider it a good thing if Bitcoin matures further and gets considered the Digital Swiss Franc? Or would you prefer a little volatility, like with gold?

It is very much possible, even if putting some exact probabilities or timelines would be very hard and a mistake. Maybe my slight preference would be a little volatility like with gold, but what would be the better thing of the two for Bitcoin and the world I could not say. If we want to talk about the chances of one happening versus the other, I think the more realistic scenario is like gold because the Swiss Franc is under different forms of centralized control. Gold is more distributed control, so it behaves a bit more like a free market does than a currency would. That is why I think this scenario of digital gold is a bit more realistic.

[Ambatman]

What do you folks think? I'm sure it's still too early and we'll probably first proceed into the Digital Gold era (if Bitcoin's success continues). But then: would you consider it a good thing if Bitcoin matures further and gets considered the Digital Swiss Franc? Or would you prefer a little volatility, like with gold?

Well in my opinion they both have volatility just relativity.
To get to the stage acting like Swiss franc we would have to cross the stage of being a medium of exchange
I'm sure that if it sticks and grows to being a digital gold that's a start to building the trust needed to back it
As volatility reduces it gets closer
Merchant could start using it as a medium of exchange without being scared of high volatility.

Another thing is that Swiss Francs can be stronger than United States dollar, but it still has fiat characteristics which is long term devaluation, bitcoin will be the opposite of that.

And that's why Bitcoin can do better
Devaluation arises if inflation erodes the growth or returns
Bitcoin could become a currency backed by codes and gradual growth
It just has to outpace inflation while demonstrating relative stability.

[Abiky]

In the recent thread about the "Bitcoin branding process" I thought about how Bitcoin is "branded" currently.

I think the current most popular narrative is that Bitcoin is still a speculative asset, but with the potential to be a digital gold.

Now we all know that Satoshi designed Bitcoin as a "peer to peer cash". So ... could Bitcoin ever be "re-branded" as a "currency" or "cash"?

I think a good target for the next decades is that Bitcoin could be the digital Swiss Franc.

Since 2003, the Swiss Franc has won 62% against the US dollar: it was worth 0.74 USD in 2003 and is now worth 1.20 (it even went to 1.25 early this year, almost a 70% increase).

Bitcoin as the Digital Swiss Franc would be an attractive long time scenario: Bitcoin protecting you from inflation and even maybe giving you a small profit (according to your local inflation), but at the same time, be a stable and usable currency, not an asset where you have to look all the time at the chart to not miss an opportunity.

What do you folks think? I'm sure it's still too early and we'll probably first proceed into the Digital Gold era (if Bitcoin's success continues). But then: would you consider it a good thing if Bitcoin matures further and gets considered the Digital Swiss Franc? Or would you prefer a little volatility, like with gold?

Interesting. But I wouldn't compare BTC against the Swiss Franc, only because the latter is issued and manipulated by a central bank. In terms of stability, then yes, CHF and BTC are almost alike. Bitcoin is already both digital gold and a digital cash system. Like you, I believe Bitcoin will first proceed into the Digital Gold era. After a few decades, its level of volatility will get smaller to a point where it's virtually "stable". I'm in no hurry to see this become a reality.

Honestly, I prefer some volatility as it opens up the path for short-term profits. You can make more money during the ups and downs, than holding and waiting until BTC reaches a new ATH. Only if you know how to play your cards right. Digital Gold or Swiss Franc, nothing will change the fact that Bitcoin is the best decentralized sound money in the world.

[Free Market Capitalist]

What do you folks think? I'm sure it's still too early and we'll probably first proceed into the Digital Gold era (if Bitcoin's success continues). But then: would you consider it a good thing if Bitcoin matures further and gets considered the Digital Swiss Franc? Or would you prefer a little volatility, like with gold?

I hope that doesn’t happen, because that return over 23 years works out to 2% per year. No one is going to be interested in Bitcoin if they can earn more from savings accounts, time deposits, and money market funds.

And I don’t think it will happen, because for that to happen, it would have to be used as a currency, and its use today is minimal—and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change in the future. What we’re seeing is that more and more Bitcoin is ending up in centralized institutions—not to be used as a currency—in ETFs or companies like Strategy. This doesn’t look like it’s going to change in the future, so I think the analogy with gold is more accurate: higher volatility, higher returns, and less use as a currency.

[Darker45]

Bitcoin is already being treated as a digital gold, at least partly. However, if it finally detached itself completely from tech stock correlations and becomes fully a digital gold, I don't think the next in the metamorphosis is becoming a digital Swiss Franc.

It seems to me they don't share the same road, at least not anymore. If the main narrative finally settles at Bitcoin being a digital gold, the next development would most likely be Bitcoin functioning as a reserve or underlying asset, not a day-to-day cash.

[viljy]

When the New World (America) was discovered, gold (and silver as well) flooded into Europe and caused inflation. If, at some point in the future, robots start mining gold somewhere in the asteroid belt, this will lead to an oversupply of gold, to the point where gold may lose its appeal as an investment asset (just as natural diamonds are losing their position today, because young people see no point in overpaying for the origin of stones compared to artificial ones).

Digital gold is a conditional concept for an investment asset, which also implies volatility. The digital gold stage for Bitcoin is an intermediate one. The final state of Bitcoin is the absence of volatility (most likely, a gradual increase in purchasing power), i.e., the state of a conditionally digital Swiss franc. It is precisely the fulfillment of the money function that is the purpose of Bitcoin. However, in a market economy, Bitcoin is forced to settle for the function of a volatile commodity, a speculative asset.

PS The other side of this is that the absence of volatility may also mean the absence of a free market. That is, not everything will be available for purchase or sale. That is, very significant changes in the institution of property ownership may occur. And not due to shortages or prohibitions, but due to the devaluation of products (due to reduced costs of robotic production) - it is impossible to sell something that can be obtained for free. But this goes beyond the scope of this topic.

[internetional]

I'd like to share my thoughts and associations.

In my understanding, a speculative asset is something I don't personally need, but someone else definitely will. Therefore, it makes sense for me to buy it just to resell it to the person who needs it. In this sense, I wouldn't call Bitcoin a speculative asset because I actually need it: as a way to store savings that are virtually impossible to confiscate.

As I see it, the Swiss franc is a means of payment needed in Switzerland and nowhere else. For those outside of Switzerland, there can only be one reason to buy it: to resell it to the Swiss (in other words, for speculation).

Ultimately, the franc means one thing to the Swiss and something completely different to everyone else. That is why branding Bitcoin as a digital equivalent of the Swiss franc confuses me. It requires too much explanation, and that's just not how branding works.

[arwin100]

In the recent thread about the "Bitcoin branding process" I thought about how Bitcoin is "branded" currently.

I think the current most popular narrative is that Bitcoin is still a speculative asset, but with the potential to be a digital gold.

Now we all know that Satoshi designed Bitcoin as a "peer to peer cash". So ... could Bitcoin ever be "re-branded" as a "currency" or "cash"?

I think a good target for the next decades is that Bitcoin could be the digital Swiss Franc.

Since 2003, the Swiss Franc has won 62% against the US dollar: it was worth 0.74 USD in 2003 and is now worth 1.20 (it even went to 1.25 early this year, almost a 70% increase).

Bitcoin as the Digital Swiss Franc would be an attractive long time scenario: Bitcoin protecting you from inflation and even maybe giving you a small profit (according to your local inflation), but at the same time, be a stable and usable currency, not an asset where you have to look all the time at the chart to not miss an opportunity.

What do you folks think? I'm sure it's still too early and we'll probably first proceed into the Digital Gold era (if Bitcoin's success continues). But then: would you consider it a good thing if Bitcoin matures further and gets considered the Digital Swiss Franc? Or would you prefer a little volatility, like with gold?

You will enter on more debatable situation if you compare Bitcoin to Swiss franc. That's why If I don't like to compare it with other fiat, since Bitcoin is so unique and incomparable with native fiats.

But as digital gold well yeah, because both is scarce and provably have lots of similarities.

Bitcoin became so mature each year pass and its unique traits is it does not depend on any central bank.

Stability of fiat like Swiss Franc happens because of its policy. But Bitcoin came from its decentralize nature and also math behind it.

[Fortify]

Now we all know that Satoshi designed Bitcoin as a "peer to peer cash". So ... could Bitcoin ever be "re-branded" as a "currency" or "cash"?

What do you folks think? I'm sure it's still too early and we'll probably first proceed into the Digital Gold era (if Bitcoin's success continues). But then: would you consider it a good thing if Bitcoin matures further and gets considered the Digital Swiss Franc? Or would you prefer a little volatility, like with gold?

Why do you write this like you're the first person to come up with the equivalence? People have been comparing bitcoin to gold for 10+  years because the connection is obvious. It also opens the analogy up that other coins can equate to different precious metals. Ethereum as a less popular coin might be silver. I'm not sure trying to reframe it against the Swiss franc is all that helpful because many people will never use or hear about that currency compared to gold. Whether we like it or not volatility is dropping in bitcoin, although it can still be susceptible to spikes, because institutional investors are buying it and they have much less reason to sell which leaves less liquidity for the rest of the coins.

[Saltysugar99]

If we take Bitcoin as a long term target then if we include Bitcoin with fiat currency, then it will not match Bitcoin's policy and fixed regulation. Swiss Franc may be strong , but it does not follow decentralized and fixed supply rules like Bitcoin. But since people can use Bitcoin in any situation according to their convenience.  someone may want to hold Bitcoin as a long term saving and generate profit in the future. Again, someone can use Bitcoin for transaction convenience, whereas for cross border payment as  the banking system is used, there are rules and regulations and it becomes a centralized system. And since the price volatility of Swiss Franc is low, the price volatility of Bitcoin is much higher and can change a lot in a short time. Now if Bitcoin has to be like Swiss Franc, then the volatility of Bitcoin's price has to be reduced. But that will never be possible. Controlling the price of Bitcoin is impossible. Although price changes can be observed due to major changes in the world economy and politics, it is not stable in the long-term. Now, why the price of Bitcoin is increasing or decreasing the reason now people can not find out by observing world issue.

But I agree with you that if the acceptance of Bitcoin continues to increase in the future, if the price reaches a certain level, the ownership of Bitcoin is more distributed and the market depth becomes much more , then the volatility may decrease. Then it may also be used as an alternative to fiat currency.