Question about customs and taxes for BTC.

[Ronin_sv]

Hi everyone.
Tell me pls. if I'll plane to visit US. Can I take my laptop with me?
I mean is custom service or police looking at content of laptops from people not-residents of US?
I'm talking about arrival to airport. For example NY.

Are they in charger to ask me - show them what I've got on my laptop? And further question, if they found bitcoin wallet on my laptop, what whey can ask to do, or what they will do?
Do I need to declare that I have BTC wallet on my laptop?

Thank you very much for answer.

P.s.
I'm planing to visit NY and just wondering is it worth to take my laptop with me or not ( in such occasion)?

[LostDutchman]

Hi everyone.
Tell me pls. if I'll plane to visit US. Can I take my laptop with me?
I mean is custom service or police looking at content of laptops from people not-residents of US?
I'm talking about arrival to airport. For example NY.

Are they in charger to ask me - show them what I've got on my laptop? And further question, if they found bitcoin wallet on my laptop, what whey can ask to do, or what they will do?
Do I need to declare that I have BTC wallet on my laptop?

Thank you very much for answer.

P.s.
I'm planing to visit NY and just wondering is it worth to take my laptop with me or not ( in such occasion)?

I don't think anyone really knows so why don't you do it and get back to us with the results?

Just kidding but really, I don't think anyone has dealt with this one yet.

My $.02.

[fernando]

They CAN search into your laptop but I've never seen them do it. I've traveled to the US around 30 times in the last 3-4 years, always with a laptop, and I have never been searched. Nor I have heard of it happening outside of the news. Most laptop searches are related with child pornography, not with Bitcoin.

Anyway, if you are going to be travelling with your laptop maybe it would be a good idea to not carry all your BTC always with you. I assume you have the wallet encrypted and backed up, but still I don't see the need

[Ronin_sv]

Oh.
I have one more question also.
What is the best way to encrypt laptop hard drive?
True-Crypt, bitlocker?

[hello_good_sir]

If they attempt to search your laptop and find that the whole drive is encrypted... they will ruin your trip to America, especially if you refuse to provide the password.

I think that it would be smarter to leave your bitcoins at home and uninstall all bitcoin software from your computer.

[fernando]

If they attempt to search your laptop and find that the whole drive is encrypted... they will ruin your trip to America, especially if you refuse to provide the password.

I think that it would be smarter to leave your bitcoins at home and uninstall all bitcoin software from your computer.

I agree, encryption is a red flag for law enforcement always. I don't share the view, but it can give you a lot of trouble. Having said that, Truecrypt is great.

However, I don't see the need to uninstall bitcoin software. Bitcoin is widely accepted and it is no crime to have them. My concern would be security, but apart from that I see no reason. In fact, with the recent IRS ruling that bitcoin is property and not currency, I understand there is no risk of being accused of introducing more money that the declared amount.

[The00Dustin]

I once had a customs officer ask me if I bought a watch I was wearing on a cruise I was disembarking.  Bitcoin and watches are both property.  I wouldn't be concerned bringing a laptop, but I would be cautious about having bitcoin on it.  I don't think they're going to go looking for a wallet, so you could have the app with little-to-no coin and a separate wallet stored elsewhere to restore if needed, but you could also just declare it instead of trying to sneak around.  The real question you need to ask in order to make a good decision for yourself is what happens when you go into any country and declare what you are legally supposed to declare in terms of money/value.  I don't know the answer to that, and I don't think this forum is a good place to get it.  If I were going to be travelling to the US, and I thought I might have more than $10,000 in property on me, I would e-mail US customs and ask them what would happen when I declared it (is it going to be taxed? am I going to be denied entry? is it going to be anything other than a record of the event?).  If the answer was acceptable, then I would check with my home country's customs regarding my return trip because I would want my declarations to match both ways (to the extent that it wasn't legally spent/traded) in case it was ever questioned (you went to the US with $20,000 and came back with less than $10,000; why?).  Most likely, only new property needs declared on the return so it can be taxed, but again, I'm really not sure because I've never travelled brought back more than is allowed duty-free.

tldr: When it comes to law, this forum is full of idiots.  If you're travelling to the US and back (or to any other country and back for that matter), talk to the relevant customs departments about your concerns (specific property declaration requirements, effects of making declarations, etc) before you leave your homeland.

[Ronin_sv]

The matter is that I'm trading on BTC-e and other markets and I can't just uninstall my wallet or not take my coins with me.
If I'll make so, than I should  cancel all deals.

That's why I'm asking is BTC are taken like currency by US gov. or just goods? If goods I have no need to declare them with me, if like currency - probably I will have to.

I'm not talking about huge amounts. totaly about 10-12 BTC on my wallets

[LostDutchman]

The matter is that I'm trading on BTC-e and other markets and I can't just uninstall my wallet or not take my coins with me.
If I'll make so, than I should  cancel all deals.

That's why I'm asking is BTC are taken like currency by US gov. or just goods? If goods I have no need to declare them with me, if like currency - probably I will have to.

I'm not talking about huge amounts. totaly about 10-12 BTC on my wallets

I don't think anyone knows yet so there may not be a good working answer to your question.

My $.02.

[The00Dustin]

I don't think anyone knows yet so there may not be a good working answer to your question.

My $.02.

This.

FinCEN (US Financial Crimes Enforcement Network) treats virtual currency as money, similar to currency vs foreign currency.  I don't know if they are involved in or care about customs/border protection at all.

IRS (US tax administrators, not tax law makers) advise that they believe virtual currency is property for tax purposes because it has no central authority.

TSA allegedly harrassed someone wearing a "bitcoin not bombs" t-shirt regarding carrying bitcoin when the person actually had buttons with bitcoin logos on them.  If true this was probably and uninformed low end TSA employee and not necessarily a policy thing.

The best way to get an answer that is to start at cbp.gov and find a way to contact someone to ask them, because what matters is what they think, not what the other departments think.  Personally, if I were travelling to the US, I would go to that site, find a way to contact the appropriate department there, get a response, print it out, and keep it with me in case my laptop was examined and bitcoin did come up.

[fernando]

The best way to get an answer that is to start at cbp.gov and find a way to contact someone to ask them, because what matters is what they think, not what the other departments think.  Personally, if I were travelling to the US, I would go to that site, find a way to contact the appropriate department there, get a response, print it out, and keep it with me in case my laptop was examined and bitcoin did come up.

That's the best approach, but it is highly unlikely that you will get written answers to the questions because no one knows. Even if you get answers, the official in charge of letting you in may think differently and none of us can know what he'll do. Be cautious! and update this thread if you get any info from them.

[counter]

I just get the feeling that would be like some form of invasion of privacy if they didn't warn you before hand they would be doing so.  Also without reason for doing so I think it's like an Illegal search and seizure is some form or another.  This is I'm not sure what you can really do about except make a stink and contact some legal reps.

[Sage]

Anticipate the worst from the USSA.

Wipe your computer before hand of anything & everything they could possibly use against you.

Use a brain wallet or use a Truecrypt vault to store your private keys in the cloud.

  

[Jakesor]

let's be honest. you're just afraid that custom service or police will find porn on your laptop.You never thought to worry about your BTC wallet

[TrailingComet]

If they ask you if you are carrying any cash on you, so long as the prvt keys aren't in your laptop or physically on you, you should be able to say No

[The00Dustin]

If they ask you if you are carrying any cash on you, so long as the prvt keys aren't in your laptop or physically on you, you should be able to say No

He said the laptop has his bitcoin wallet.  Where do you keep your private keys?

[monim1]

Normally they won't search your Laptop. I have traveled US several times and nothing happened like this with me. They can search your laptop if they found any unusual activities or someone inform. So i think it would be better to uninstall all Bitcoin software from your computer.

[DeathAndTaxes]

If they attempt to search your laptop and find that the whole drive is encrypted... they will ruin your trip to America, especially if you refuse to provide the password.

I think that it would be smarter to leave your bitcoins at home and uninstall all bitcoin software from your computer.

Deniable encryption is a wonderful thing.   "oh my password? password123" <truecrypt accepts password and loads partition>.  It is impossible to prove there isn't a second partition which can be decrypted only with a different password.  

http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/plausible-deniability

Math rocks!

[Harley997]

Hi everyone.
Tell me pls. if I'll plane to visit US. Can I take my laptop with me?
I mean is custom service or police looking at content of laptops from people not-residents of US?
I'm talking about arrival to airport. For example NY.

Are they in charger to ask me - show them what I've got on my laptop? And further question, if they found bitcoin wallet on my laptop, what whey can ask to do, or what they will do?
Do I need to declare that I have BTC wallet on my laptop?

Thank you very much for answer.

P.s.
I'm planing to visit NY and just wondering is it worth to take my laptop with me or not ( in such occasion)?

I don't think they will ask to see what software you have on your laptop.

Generally speaking you must declare the value of "hard assets" that you bring into the country that is the value of your laptop itself. Other examples would be clothing, jewelry, cash, furniture.

[Ron~Popeil]

Just don't mention your wallet. There shouldn't be any issues at all.