A good move or stupid idea?

[BlackHatCoiner]

"Seedless" in hardware wallet marketing usually means "your seed still exists, you just aren't allowed to see it anymore".

The whole point of a seed is that your coins don't depend on Keystone. Device bricks or company goes bust, you buy a Trezor, recover the wallet, done. Take that away and your "cold storage" becomes a subscription to Keystone continuing to exist.

Ask the people who owned some wallets, without BIP39-like seed phrases, that are no longer around how that worked out. I'd definitely move away from Keystone.

[crwth]

I don't like the idea of not knowing how recovery could work with this kind of move. Is it a cloud backup, an encryption key, or something? If there's a recovery mechanism, I hope it's open source or something.

I'm also curious whether there's a compatibility issue with BIP-39. The mnemonic seeds, and maybe it could be moved to another type of wallet like Trezor.

[boyptc]

So I'm curious where did you get the message? Was it from a blog or email? but it's important for us to verify first because nowadays it's harder to trust anything.

By the looks of that image from OP, that seem to be from a blog. Just like the others, I cannot find a verifiable source from that announcement.

But if there's already a reply from the Keystone's X that it is not them who announced that, we can finally move on and wait until OP comes back by tomorrow to post where's got that announcement from.

I don't like the idea of not knowing how recovery could work with this kind of move. Is it a cloud backup, an encryption key, or something? If there's a recovery mechanism, I hope it's open source or something.

Taking the example of Tangem wallet, the private key is embedded on its chip hardware's TRNG. And the only way to back up your private key is by having another physical card/wallet.

If anyone who owns one that's seedless cmiiw.

[savetheFORUM]

The main point of a seed phrase (ie. the mnemonic) is for the users to have a way to recover their money in case the device was damaged or lost or ... if that option is removed, then how are their users supposed to be able to recover their money?

It is not the only hardware wallet that have gone for seedless wallet before, the first wallet that I remember that it was introduced was Tangem wallet which we discussed about on this forum.

https://tangem.com/en/learning-hub/post/seedless-wallets/
TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup

Their claim is that seed phrase users can be vulnerable to phishing attack.

But I do not like the idea of seedless wallet. At least, it can optional.

This is exactly the dilemma and why seedless wallets came out. First of all, it is true that a seed means that it could be hacked too, considering most people do not store it safely, some even just write it somewhere on their pc and save it in some folder, so if they are hacked, a hacker could reach it easily.

But just because the seed phrase is not 100% safe, that doesn't mean that seedless is safe either. Just like others said, in case of an emergency and in some situations where you can't access it, the money is fully gone, and there is no way to recover it. Which is why I would say that both sides have problems and it's not an easy task at all. I would guess that it is not going to be easy for either of them to be mainstream because of "security" reasons; other reasons will play a bigger part.

[macson]

Just checked their terms of service, it was still explained that their device still has the ability to generate and import seed phrases.

2. Description of Services

Keystone provides hardware wallet devices, firmware, software tools, and related services designed to enable users to securely manage digital assets.

Keystone hardware wallets allow users to:

• Generate or import recovery phrases (seed phrases) within the device environment

So how is it possible that they suddenly change the rules when they were still explaining that their devices still have a feature to generate seed phrases? Unless that notification is a scam. That's why you should always check the OFFICIAL WEBSITE when reading something important.

[Silverstonez]

Tell me friends, how does a seedless architecture sounds to you?
Of all the things I've learnt in this forum I can't forget how important having access to my recovery seed really is.

It's something no one should play with.

I can’t say whether it’s a good idea or bad idea because it ultimately depends on the level of trust you are willing to place in the manufacturer and how much control you want over your private keys and your recovery seed phrase. If I were you I would quietly purchase another trusted hardware wallet and move all my bitcoins from the Keystone hardware wallet to the new wallet, because I don’t understand what is wrong with the Keystone hardware wallet manufacturer. How does manufacturer expect users to restore their wallet if their devices are stolen or become faulty?

[JiiBs]

Tell me friends, how does a seedless architecture sounds to you?
Of all the things I've learnt in this forum I can't forget how important having access to my recovery seed really is.

It's something no one should play with.

No seeds for an attacker to hack, that’s so strange and somehow, I find it a little funny too. It might seem like a very secured step as, the absence of keys or seed phrase would mean nothing to attack right? Then it so happens that, you might as well be securing Bitcoin away from your self as, the event of a missing wallet would result in a permanent loss of asset or is there a way around that too, I wonder!

The importance of seed phrases and private keys in the hands of users shouldn’t be underestimated, so we don’t end up securing our Bitcoins even from ourselves as with this method, that can easily be the case.

[X-ray]

If this isn't just another phishing message, then this is a big no from me, I just could never live with a seedless arhitecture, being locked down to one ecosystem forever.

Want to make a backup? you better buy the same hardware wallet! sounds like dystopian. You're just one step away from getting your wallet controlled by them if they ever do something shady because after all, only the device can sign a transaction and the device receives update from the manufacturer.

Even embedded wallet infrastructure provider that use seedless architecture that under the hood uses MPC, still give a way to export private keys.

I don't like the idea of not knowing how recovery could work with this kind of move. Is it a cloud backup, an encryption key, or something? If there's a recovery mechanism, I hope it's open source or something.

I'm also curious whether there's a compatibility issue with BIP-39. The mnemonic seeds, and maybe it could be moved to another type of wallet like Trezor.

Maybe the backup is through second devices and export/import information from the first device and the backup capability will be locked down to the same manufacturer device. If the seedless architecture uses MPC, maybe there won't be seed phrase.

[Somegory]

Thanks for your replies all of you, it's a bit strange that I couldn't find this message on keystone x account, and this message in my mail doesn't consists of any links or me been asked for any recovery seed.

I don't see how I am supposed to get scammed via this email, also I am surprised how my main email account gets the message because it's the actual one I used to purchased keystone.

Has my email address gotten into the hands of bad actors or someone inside keystone facility trying to get the best of me or something? I am too cautious to get scammed though, I will never drop my recovery seed even if it's keystone team asking.

I will wait some days more maybe I will receive extra that will reveal the who agenda behind this message.

[Tongley]

I would prefer to stay away from using this type of wallet at the moment. Because they are adding new technology, I don't know what will happen, and the biggest issue I think is how can we recover our funds if our device is ever lost or damaged. I think we need to look at convenience and security separately.

We can easily protect the current system, there are several methods to protect our Seed Phrase, using which we can easily protect our Seed Phrase

[SmartCharpa]

~~~

I would be worried too for real, the main reason I prefer self custody is that I want to be in control of my own bitcoin and not depending on any company. If I can not recover my wallet or access my recovery seed, I have to think twice before trusting it, what happens if the company stops supporting the wallet or shuts down?
The convenience is good but I don’t think we should sacrifice control over our own money for it.

Some scammers can also fake a message like this to get your attention to scam you. Op has decided to wait for information from any official keystone account  to confirm whether it is true or not. But honestly, I won’t even wait to get any information before I move my money to any other safe place. This is 2026, and people are still trying something differents.

However, this is one of the reason why many people prefer to use safe custody rather than other exchanges where they can control their money. Although with safe custody, you will be responsible for whatever happens to your assets, losing your private keys means losing access to your assets. It is better for you to control your money to keep it safe. If the message was real, I would rather withdraw my money before it too late.

[L E G E N D A R Y]

For me, the biggest flaw with seedless architecture is how much control the user actually retains over recovery. If it’s not possible for me to independently recover my Bitcoin without actually relying on the company or their services, then how exactly is that self custody?? Convenience no matter the level should never come at the expense of complete control over recovery, because losing access to a wallet is just same thing as losing the funds permanently. If anyone wants to consider this approach then the first thing they should consider should be how recovery works as well as what would happen if the company actually shuts down, but my best advice would be to not even consider such an option.

[AmaGold70]

This is not a good innovation at all, and this means the security of your asset is no longer in your hands, and when the device has gone bad getting access your fund becomes very difficult. This is to tell users of this wallet that the key phrase which we know to be very important for Bitcoin holders to keep their assets safe is no longer important. This news is not interesting at all, and people using this wallet will definitely look for an alternative where they can be able to access their wallet when ever they want to. So far the security of your Bitcoin asset is concerned your key phrase gives you access to it , but when you no longer have it with you which means the safety of your asset is no longer guaranteed.

[Johnlomape]

For me, the biggest flaw with seedless architecture is how much control the user actually retains over recovery. If it’s not possible for me to independently recover my Bitcoin without actually relying on the company or their services, then how exactly is that self custody?? Convenience no matter the level should never come at the expense of complete control over recovery, because losing access to a wallet is just same thing as losing the funds permanently. If anyone wants to consider this approach then the first thing they should consider should be how recovery works as well as what would happen if the company actually shuts down, but my best advice would be to not even consider such an option.

This is not the first time I've been hearing about the seedless architecture and I think it's not safe enough for users.
How would a user  that lost their devices recover their wallet in this case? If you don't have access to the device it may become hard for the user to recover their wallet. Perhaps users may have to create account and their seed phrase will be backed up on the wallet server which I don't think it's a good way to keep your money on a wallet you don't have full control.

[Faisal2202]

The email you received is fake, and as the user knowngunman has already shared confirmation from the team, I want to say something that can help you realize how to control your panic before you do something stupid. It's not only about you but about everyone.

The lines in the email speak for themselves, like the line that says, "All devices move to a fully seedless architecture." First, they would never take such a step. Second, these firmware updates can't strip away the existing wallet's cryptographic backup model without destroying the user's ability to recover their wallet. So their next step would be to ask you for your seed phrase, and that would be the second and biggest red flag.

This is a drainer setup, which is created to panic you and force you to migrate your funds. I don't use it, but it also means your email has been exposed. And it's a shock to me because I could not find any data breach either. So you must contact them through their official website yourself before doing anything else.

[L E G E N D A R Y]

This is not the first time I've been hearing about the seedless architecture and I think it's not safe enough for users.
How would a user  that lost their devices recover their wallet in this case? If you don't have access to the device it may become hard for the user to recover their wallet. Perhaps users may have to create account and their seed phrase will be backed up on the wallet server which I don't think it's a good way to keep your money on a wallet you don't have full control.

Another thing again is that people who ever decides to make use of this may end up trusting the wallet without really knowing what goes on behind the scenes. Removing the seed phrase may actually make things look a lot more easier for users because they don’t need to have that much responsibility anymore, but does that automatically mean their funds are 100% safe? Of course not, because there’ll still be different vulnerabilities.

Again, the part I’m mostly concerned about is the recovery part, how convenient is it gonna be for users who want to recover their wallets when something goes wrong without standing a risk of losing their Bitcoin.

[Awaklara]

This is a drainer setup, which is created to panic you and force you to migrate your funds. I don't use it, but it also means your email has been exposed. And it's a shock to me because I could not find any data breach either. So you must contact them through their official website yourself before doing anything else.

The situation clearly indicates a customer data leak. OP should be more careful with incoming emails, especially when they request clicking on certain links or connecting wallets or other things. We who are now used to using wallets will surely notice something strange about the message. This kind of modus operandi may continue to be developed and target customers of other platforms.

[slaman29]

I'm going to have to read this more to understand but it seems impossible to my mind that you can recover something without needing to remember or write down an access be it key or seed.

Only way I can think of is biometric but that needs storage somewhere and if something can read me, it will cost a lot or it will break.