Ledger Atom

[Meuserna]

the company published an article on its blog about Ledger Atom security architecture: https://www.ledger.com/blog-ledger-atom-security-architecture

here are some key points:

Supply chain risks have existed for years.

That whole post by Ledger reads like one giant facepalm.

Ledger, then: "There is no anti-tampering sticker on this box. A cryptographic mechanism checks the integrity of your Ledger device's internal software each time it is powered on. The Secure Element chip prevents any interception or physical replacement attempt. Ledger devices are engineered to be tamper-proof."

Ledger, now: "Supply chain risks have existed for years."

Good luck with that, eh? What a terrible company.

[Cricktor]

OK, I'm not known to be a fan of Ledger, rather the contrary.

Isn't it a nice concession to organized supply chain crime that this new device already comes with wifi and 5G connectivity and enough battery power onboard? Cool, no trojan implant here really anymore needed. The criminal hackers only need to find flaws in the software to tamper security boundaries (could be quite a challenge, but frankly who knows, as Ledger's firmware is usually an opaque mystery box). That's the spirt, Ledger, thank you for nothing!

I haven't yet read their whitepaper on this device's security model. Android OS is complex, same applies to iOS, and has constant need for patches, built-in obsolescense due to limited support periods. I'm not confident that Ledger will provide stellar Android OS support, so there will be attack vectors via Android OS anyway, that's mostly inevitable.

Will the FPGA be still programmable in the delivered product? (If yes: a nightmare to be tripped; if not: a discovered and exploitable flaw could render the security boundary moot.)

With further development of KI driven reverse-engineering of binary blobs, security-by-obscurity with Ledger's closed-source firmware policy might become less of a problem for criminals. Consider Ledger OS flawless and error-free? Please, seek medical help if you even had the faintest thoughts or hopes of that.

There could be traces of elements of S, Ar, Ca, Sm that escaped my brain beaker. Feel free to do your own chemistry with 'em.

[Pmalek]

The dumber move is what's next: Idiots will buy this thing, and the paid shills on youtube will encourage them to do so. I'm not going to call anybody out by name, but all you have to do is watch hardware wallet reviews - even those by some of the most popular crypto-youtubers - and it becomes glaringly obvious these clowns are gadget guys who barely understand what the devices actually do.

They are just following the trend. For them, it's about being the quickest to release a review of whatever is their niche. They will sugarcoat it as much as they have to because it generates sales, sponsorships, affiliate, earnings whatever. That's the world we live in. If you are not upset by advertisers telling you to drink Coca Cola and eat at McDonalds, don't be upset with tech reviewers telling you to buy a brand-new hardware wallet.

[PrivacyG]

On Ledger Atom, when something needs your approval, the Ledger OS takes over the screen. The Secure Bar lights up, so you always know which world you are in.

Great.  After all, the one thing our Bitcoin community has never had is one vulnerability that affects who takes over the screen.

[Meuserna]

On Ledger Atom, when something needs your approval, the Ledger OS takes over the screen. The Secure Bar lights up, so you always know which world you are in.

Great.  After all, the one thing our Bitcoin community has never had is one vulnerability that affects who takes over the screen.

...if you trust closed source code, which you should not since there's no way to prove what the parts of the code that you're not allowed to even verify are doing.

"I made you lunch!"
"Awesome. What's in it?"
"The parts I'm willing to tell you about are definitely not poison."
"Uhmmmm.... And the rest...?"
"You don't need to know. Trust me, bro."

[The Sceptical Chymist]

This must be the dumbest move I ever saw, and people working in ledger are complete idiots and morons

I can buy a good airgapped Foundation Passport hardware wallet with $349 and use the remaining $500 to buy bitcoin or to gamble with a good shit coin that I think its price will increase.

Hear, hear. 

There's inflation, there's price increases due to giant upgrades in tech, and then there's what we have here with this piece of excrementitious bouillabaisse--highway fucking robbery.  And it kind of makes me wonder if Ledger is trying to squeeze suckers due to however many former customers of theirs they hoodwinked with that Recover idiocy.  They're not a public company and thus don't have to disclose their financials, but does anyone have a sense of how much business they lost when they revealed they had their hands on everyone's private keys and their enormous hydra-dick up Ledger owners' bungholes simultaneously?

I've never seen any numbers, but I'm hoping their balance sheet got set on fire.

[Lucius]

~snip~
They're not a public company and thus don't have to disclose their financials, but does anyone have a sense of how much business they lost when they revealed they had their hands on everyone's private keys and their enormous hydra-dick up Ledger owners' bungholes simultaneously?

I've never seen any numbers, but I'm hoping their balance sheet got set on fire.

In a world where their users would be people who understand the risks arising from everything wrong/incomprehensible that comes from that company, that company would already be bankrupt. In a world where most of those who have their devices and invest in cryptocurrencies do not know the difference between Bitcoin and blockchain or private and public key, it turns out that they earn even more than before. I'm not saying that because of specific data, but it just seems that way to me.

[Meuserna]

Lucius, you're exactly right.

ColdCard's code caused a catastrophic loss. Their buggy code caused the biggest heist in the entire history of hardware wallets, but you'll find no shortage of ColdCard users still sticking with them, mostly because the "calculators" look cool.

Ledger added the ability to extract the user's keys from the device over the internet, and since their code is closed source the only people who get to check it for bugs and exploits are the hackers using AI to reverse engineer it... but users stick with Ledger because the devices look cool.

They'll swear that's not the reason, but too many people in this space have been going gaga over gadgets for years.

And just like you said, too few people even understand the basics of Bitcoin.

It's 2026 and we still have to remind people their coins aren't on their device.

[Ashawowo(OS)]

Ledger has just announced it's upcoming hardware wallet/phone (costs 849$) which is planned to launch the Summer of 2027.

They're already asking that people reserve a spot for a founders edition with a fully refundable $100.
https://x.com/Ledger/status/2112634962818277584

Personally, I don't like the fact that they're making it a multi-purpose device. I like isolating my main Bitcoin wallet from my everyday activities. I cannot be comfortable knowing that my major holdings is sitting in the same device that I use in doing random things on the Internet. I don't see it as a healthy practice, even though they are campaigning that it runs 2 distinct OS, not to mention that there's no way their claims can be independently verified since their code is closed source.

[PrivacyG]

There's inflation, there's price increases due to giant upgrades in tech, and then there's what we have here with this piece of excrementitious bouillabaisse--highway fucking robbery.  And it kind of makes me wonder if Ledger is trying to squeeze suckers due to however many former customers of theirs they hoodwinked with that Recover idiocy.

but users stick with Ledger because the devices look cool.

A really unnecessary idiotic loyalty to a company and putting 'cool' designs over functionality and not showing up all around the World with a phone that SCREAMS 'I have Bitcoin on me'.  Ledger has long ago turned in to the Apple of Bitcoin.  Apple at least has its own charm.

How long does it take before ALPRs and other such technology is used by bad groups of people to track owners of such devices down?  Every time I come back to this Topic I only find more ways this is a multi danger tool.  This device is pretty much pre ordering a very expensive, really bad surprise experience for your self.

[Lucius]

~snip~
A really unnecessary idiotic loyalty to a company and putting 'cool' designs over functionality and not showing up all around the World with a phone that SCREAMS 'I have Bitcoin on me'.  Ledger has long ago turned in to the Apple of Bitcoin.  Apple at least has its own charm.

Once upon a time, when we still considered them a reliable company, they sold clothes with their logo and various messages on them - supposedly the clothes were specially designed to store their devices. I always wondered why someone would buy something like that and walk around like a moving target.

[Forsyth Jones]

man man $849 is a device more expensive than many mid-range phones, if I import it, it becomes very expensive due to import taxes (+60% on the price including shipping + state taxes).

What's the next step? Launch a HW smartwatch? Since it has a hybrid system with Android and Ledger OS, how will that work? To what extent is there a limit on which apps will be installed that could be potentially malicious?

I would love to know more about this device when I have time, but I don't even know if I should waste my time when it comes to Ledger...

If I were to pay almost $900 for a hardware wallet, it would be much better to buy a Passport Prime for around $350, even with taxes, I would still pay less than buying a Ledger Atom...

[ABCbits]

What's the next step? Launch a HW smartwatch?

Different brand plan to launch such device, https://solwear.tech/. But don't ask me whether it's legit or secure.

To what extent is there a limit on which apps will be installed that could be potentially malicious?

Some of your question can be answered if you read their whitepaper on https://www.ledger.com/ledger-atom-whitepaper. But since there's no mention they'll release source of the OS, so who knows if feature they claim will be actually implemented or actually secure enough.

[Cricktor]

The Ledger Atom Whitepaper with its overly icon-enriched table of contents and headlines has to look like it's some AI vomit.

Anyway, not an uninteresting read and some design ideas aren't bad actually. I'll make it clear that this is no endorsement for this device in particular or Ledger in general.

Somewhat interesting is the fact that from some claims in this whitepaper this device might not support Ledger Recovery service. Ledger states that no key material can leave the secure element of the "Secure Mode" which is the hardware separated enclave which operates Ledger OS. "Standard Mode", the separated Android environment, can't directly access stuff in the "Secure Mode" enclave; it can only send requests that are solely handled by Ledger OS.

I hope I didn't read it wrong and misunderstood something, but is this a departure from Ledger Recovery for this specific device? Not, that I would care, just mentioning it.

From this architecture, all the sensitive elements are designed not to leave this standalone hardware stack. They are not visible, at hardware level, to the SoC and thus to the Mobile OS and the applications running on it.
...
Nothing from the Secure Mode is synced, backed up, or accessible by the Standard Mode without the Secure Mode granting explicit access. The seed does not live in the Mobile OS storage.

It remains to be seen and possibly verified, likely not by customers and the public, how much water this holds or if it's just some marketing bs.

The Secure Bar is a reserved strip at the very top of the display rendered by the FPGA under the exclusive control of Ledger OS. The Mobile OS cannot draw pixels in this area (the FPGA discards them). It shows the user at a glance whether the device is in Standard Mode or Secure Mode.

I wonder how well a customer can distinguish this "Secure Bar" top screen section from a potentially faked "Secure Bar" some Pixels below by malware on the "Standard Zone" Android environment. (I haven't seen any pictures of this so far, if any exist.)
Nevermind, now I've seen it and it's large enough to be not mistaken.