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Author Topic: Price is going up again??  (Read 2565 times)
grondilu
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December 29, 2011, 09:47:35 AM
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panerai
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December 29, 2011, 01:35:52 PM
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its going up alright... raise your arms!


terrytibbs
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December 29, 2011, 01:54:17 PM
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Can you spot the bear?!
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December 29, 2011, 02:03:31 PM
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reel them slow

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December 29, 2011, 03:37:42 PM
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I'm long bitcoins, with the realistic expectation that bubbles rarely reinflate.  If they do rise once again, they generally don't rise to anywhere near previous levels.  Barring some extraordinary use for bitcoins where no other method suffices, we're not going above $10 again.  It's not what super bulls want to hear, that's for sure.

Do not send bitcoins to me: 16b8s7pBJ9rUmsExNW25qD5VUqVqRPZuXu
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panerai
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December 29, 2011, 03:44:20 PM
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its time

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December 29, 2011, 03:49:03 PM
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December 29, 2011, 03:50:13 PM
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December 29, 2011, 03:52:19 PM
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December 29, 2011, 03:53:21 PM
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December 29, 2011, 04:00:16 PM
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Edward50
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December 29, 2011, 05:30:08 PM
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I'll try and not use the word manipulator becuse too many people don't like that here. However, I still see clearly that that people are trading for price changes only.

My take on the price is that it is forcefully trying to be pushed higher. For example, I predicted the high push during christmas, the reason being the people trying to push the price higher would try and do this on a down day, when people are busy with christmas. The pushers also got hit hard when someone decided to dump a few times like 50K coins. But right after that dump, they were right back in with their bid walls.

What I still don't understand is that they have to be buying lots of coins to get this price push higher. And now they have to maintain the price at an even higher level, paying people more and more for bitcoins.

I can not see how long they could do this. I think many sellers will sit on the sidelines with the recent price hike, but after a month or so of the price not going higher, they will start to sell their coins.

Still nothing has change like cluster2K has said. Bitcoins are for the most part as useless as they ever were.  There is no shortage of these coins also.

The only unknown here is how much these people trying to control the price can control the price. Bitcoin is limited enough for there to be much control of it. Even gold is said to be easily manipulated. I mean many things are manipulated, just think diamonds. When you can create a shortage, you can control. And bitcoin is limited enough for this to happen.




Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
714
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December 30, 2011, 02:05:56 AM
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I'll try and not use the word manipulator becuse too many people don't like that here. However, I still see clearly that that people are trading for price changes only.

My take on the price is that it is forcefully trying to be pushed higher. For example, I predicted the high push during christmas, the reason being the people trying to push the price higher would try and do this on a down day, when people are busy with christmas. The pushers also got hit hard when someone decided to dump a few times like 50K coins. But right after that dump, they were right back in with their bid walls.

What I still don't understand is that they have to be buying lots of coins to get this price push higher. And now they have to maintain the price at an even higher level, paying people more and more for bitcoins.

I can not see how long they could do this. I think many sellers will sit on the sidelines with the recent price hike, but after a month or so of the price not going higher, they will start to sell their coins.

Still nothing has change like cluster2K has said. Bitcoins are for the most part as useless as they ever were.  There is no shortage of these coins also.

The only unknown here is how much these people trying to control the price can control the price. Bitcoin is limited enough for there to be much control of it. Even gold is said to be easily manipulated. I mean many things are manipulated, just think diamonds. When you can create a shortage, you can control. And bitcoin is limited enough for this to happen.

++1++
The tiny size of the bitcoin marketplace would be the elephant in the room if only it were much, much bigger. The marketplace that is, not the room  Smiley

When the subject is bitcoin discussions about market "fundamentals" like supply and demand are only slightly less deluded than the misapplication of technical analysis ( Elliott waves, Fibonacci ratios, voodoo milkshakes, etc ) to what is clearly a game that is easily amenable to being moved and dominated by a few entities. Far larger marketplaces with many many more players than bitcoin is ever likely to see are routinely steered to the advantage of manipulators, for example the silver craze of the late 1970s which was wholly orchestrated by the Hunt brothers.

For all practical purposes the only reasonable and prudent assumption is that bitcoin exchange rates and trading are a rigged game, a sham market. Acknowledging this reality doesn't make it any easier to profit by it, but it does strongly suggest that any asset allocation to bitcoin be small and regarded as purely speculative.

I may borrow your quote "Bitcoins are for the most part as useless as they ever were." as a signature line, the more elaborate bitcoin becomes the truer your observation.

So, who wants to start writing phony insurance on bitcoin positions with me, at least until someone pulls the plug on shoring up bitcoin's value? Then maybe we can swing some sort of government bailout and thereby completely relive the U.S. financial meltdown of 2008 but in a safe, simulated World of Warcraft fashion. I know, let's call them Bitcoin Default Swaps, it's best from a marketing viewpoint to apply the same lack of imagination in copying existing financial instruments and institutions that so characterizes the rest of the bitcoin infrastructure Grin

"Bitcoins are for the most part as useless as they ever were."
 - Edward50
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December 30, 2011, 11:17:16 AM
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zby
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December 30, 2011, 11:29:22 AM
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The only unknown here is how much these people trying to control the price can control the price. Bitcoin is limited enough for there to be much control of it. Even gold is said to be easily manipulated. I mean many things are manipulated, just think diamonds. When you can create a shortage, you can control. And bitcoin is limited enough for this to happen.

I understand what you are saying, but with Bitcoin all the information is there for those who care to see it. So you are wealthy and can buy 1,000,000 Bitcoins. You make waves when you enter and exit the market. As you buy, you will increase the price. As you sell, you will decrease the price. Plus there are other people in the market. If someone tries to corner the market, good for them, who cares? Sell your coins when you think they are overpriced and buy them back when you think they are under priced. To be a manipulator, one is faced with the same risks that anyone who plays the market faces. What happens when there are two large players trying to make money off the other?

We know how many Bitcoins exist. You can compare them to diamonds and say they are manipulated, but it's a poor comparison. The amount of diamonds in existence can be concealed by the people mining them. It just doesn't work that way with Bitcoin. Even gold doesn't have the transparency of Bitcoin. Plus I would say gold is a fairly regulated market. Regulations themselves are a form of control.

So what is the problem? If you don't like how someone is influencing the market, stop playing by their rules. For someone to manipulate the market, there has to be a group of manipulated that are playing along.

Until Bitcoin is 40 times as popular as it is now, it will be fairly easy to influence the price. Even then, it will still be able to be influenced.

I guess what I'm asking is why do you care? Are you trying to use Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Don't hold Bitcoin. Or are you trying to make money off Bitcoin? In that case, what is the difference between you and a manipulator, other than scale? Or you want Bitcoin to be seen as something other than a toy for speculators? Then work towards creating a product or service that is in huge demand and only accept Bitcoin as payment.



I see - so you are trying to manipulate the market down by saying that there are people manipulating it up!
panerai
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December 30, 2011, 03:03:37 PM
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haha! love it
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December 30, 2011, 03:08:13 PM
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in pump mode now, up to 4.24
istar
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December 30, 2011, 09:05:29 PM
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I'm long bitcoins, with the realistic expectation that bubbles rarely reinflate.  If they do rise once again, they generally don't rise to anywhere near previous levels.  Barring some extraordinary use for bitcoins where no other method suffices, we're not going above $10 again.  It's not what super bulls want to hear, that's for sure.

Is there any historic data on bubbles in previous cryptocurrencies  Grin
It wasnt a bubble just a crash  Roll Eyes


Bitcoins - Because we should not pay to use our money
RyNinDaCleM
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December 30, 2011, 09:23:13 PM
 #19

I'm long bitcoins, with the realistic expectation that bubbles rarely reinflate.  If they do rise once again, they generally don't rise to anywhere near previous levels.  Barring some extraordinary use for bitcoins where no other method suffices, we're not going above $10 again.  It's not what super bulls want to hear, that's for sure.

Is there any historic data on bubbles in previous cryptocurrencies  Grin
It wasnt a bubble just a crash  Roll Eyes



Price went from $1.00 -> $32.00 ->$2.00 in the span of ten months. Why wasn't it a bubble?

istar
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December 30, 2011, 09:33:35 PM
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It wasnt a bubble because...The balance of the equilibrium had far from reached the full ofset from a point of time since bitcoins inflational exposures would have to be messured as the potential of the bottom accumulation of coins, meaning that seen from the full perspective of transactional width compared to the cost a Bitcoin bubble would look very different from a usual bubble.

Nah, it was a bubble, just joking.


Bitcoins - Because we should not pay to use our money
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