Spend your bitcoins, and you still get paid in Bitcoin

[Outhue]

I'm not in such circle OP, I am just going to keep doing what I feel it's best for me, I don't have to follow what others are doing with their Bitcoin and how they are getting it back, I have my own business and I have in many months accept Bitcoin payments until wrench attacks becomes popular and I stopped but right now I still spend my Bitcoin if I have to, like through cross border payment and when I can the money later I buy back some Bitcoin, I stopped getting paid in Bitcoin because of Wrench attacks, I hope you get that, everyone's situation in life will never be the same.

[Japinat]

There are several ways to do that but let's focus on one for now:  selling products/services for bitcoins.  

If you just strictly use Bitcoin transactions only that would not be feasible for a business.

Your idea is buying and selling, that is already a business where there is no assurance you will profit, so using Bitcoin for that is another risk.
Although I get the idea that we believe Bitcoin is valuable and will rise in the future but for running a business regularly, it's not fit for it. What you need in a business is to have good cash flow so you can sustain it and have a better vision for the future, with Bitcoin you cannot focus on that as you are also battling against its volatility.

[Roggeredek]

Currently, there are many misconceptions about Bitcoin globally. Often, the time required for Bitcoin transactions plays a significant role in fostering negative perceptions. Furthermore, due to these misconceptions, some national governments have imposed restrictions on Bitcoin payments, partly because the transaction process can be quite lengthy. Regarding your point about using Bitcoin for payments, considering the example you provided, it is advisable to maintain a balance: keep some Bitcoin in reserve while spending a portion to meet your daily needs. It is also important to plan ahead, determining the right time to spend your Bitcoin, ideally when you perceive it to be profitable to do so.

[Somegory]

Yes, you're right that businessmen "have no problem spending" BTC because they're also earning in BTC. That's true. But it's not as if they have much choice. The capital has to roll. You can't just hodl your earnings. Otherwise, your business would cease operating.

But the problem isn't the spending part. It's the volatility part. A couple of months ago, Bitcoin went as low as $62,000. Then September opened, Bitcoin bounced back to $82,000. A couple of weeks later, it corrected to $75,000. Another week passed and the price went as high as $87,000, only to go back to $80,000 3 weeks later.

This is bad for business. Perhaps you're correct as well that "there are people who really want to spend their bitcoins but no reliable marketplace". But which market thrives with such volatile currency?

It's not exactly bad for business, everyone business owners that wants to accept Bitcoin must have a strategy in mind for the Bitcoin.

1. They must understand the volatility part, if it's going to affect their business they can sell immediately they accept Bitcoin, don't ask why then they accept Bitcoin in the first place, a customer who's only option is to use Bitcoin to pay from a far away land is still a +1 customer.

2. Many businesses that accept Bitcoin don't just want to accept as payment but also turned their earnings into Bitcoin and hold for long term as far as their business keeps running, it's a extra reliability that their business can survive on better value of Bitcoin someday.

To me it's all about how familiar the business owner really is with Bitcoin..

[davis196]

And ofcourse, we know there are people who really want to spend their bitcoins but no reliable marketplace and fast payment system exist that they can do so easily  This is what we should be seriously working on otherwise we shouldn't blame them too much for not spending

You are answering your own question with this sentence. Also, "fast payment system"? Are you saying that the Bitcoin blockchain or the Lightning Network aren't fast enough? There are reliable merchants, who accept BTC payments, but the problem is BTC price growth. Nobody wants to spend and asset, whose price is about to grow tomorrow. That's why everyone prefers fiat money and stablecoins for spending. Their value goes down day after day.
Telling people about what to do with their own money is a stupid move. The people can do whatever they want with their money(crypto or fiat). Who is blaming the Bitcoiners for not spending? Are you blaming the BTC supporters for not spending their Bitcoins(after all, you are the one making this forum thread)? I certainly do not blame anyone for HODLing BTC instead of spending.

[Cryptmuster]

Most people choose Bitcoin as a Store of Value than a Medium of Exchange in order to grow their Bitcoin investment, to afford to buy more things and be inflation proof. Ofcourse, these are the main reasons they choose to use Bitcoin as Store of Value rather than spending them.  How do we convince them to also spend or use it as MoE?
There are several ways to do that but let's focus on one for now:  selling products/services for bitcoins.  If you earn bitcoins in this manner, unlike those who have to convert from fiat or have no other source of income, why don't you spend them aswell, since you'll keeping earning more?


To encourage spending, we need to introduce more ways to earn and also inform already earners to spend part of what they earn. They should have no problem spending bitcoins since they will be earning more. And if spenders are prudent or smart enough, they would be spending their bitcoins on things they can sell for more bitcoins, or things that help them produce more things they can sell for bitcoins.

And ofcourse, we know there are people who really want to spend their bitcoins but no reliable marketplace and fast payment system exist that they can do so easily  This is what we should be seriously working on otherwise we shouldn't blame them too much for not soending

I think the difficulty here is that Bitcoin is still not an official means of payment in many countries, so you cannot use it to pay for goods and services. On top of that, not all companies are willing to accept Bitcoin as a payment method, so at this stage, it is still quite complicated. It is much easier to use fiat currency for everyday purchases and expenses while treating Bitcoin as an asset for saving and investing. If necessary, you can always sell a portion of your Bitcoin when you need the money.

[Hewlet]

And ofcourse, we know there are people who really want to spend their bitcoins but no reliable marketplace and fast payment system exist that they can do so easily  This is what we should be seriously working on otherwise we shouldn't blame them too much for not spending

Should a person that wants to spend his bitcoin be cajoled to spending it before a device a means of doing so? is it not that there must be a reason why you are spending your bitcoin before you even start spending it? people are still spending their bitcoin when there is a need to and there is no need to get pressurized into spending it just because you want to prove a point or something. how you choose to use your bitcoin whether as an asset or something you are spending should be entirely up to you and there is no reason spending it just to prove a point.

[Davidloki]

I'm not in such circle OP, I am just going to keep doing what I feel it's best for me, I don't have to follow what others are doing with their Bitcoin and how they are getting it back, I have my own business and I have in many months accept Bitcoin payments until wrench attacks becomes popular and I stopped but right now I still spend my Bitcoin if I have to, like through cross border payment and when I can the money later I buy back some Bitcoin, I stopped getting paid in Bitcoin because of Wrench attacks, I hope you get that, everyone's situation in life will never be the same.

That's a considerable situation, because everybody cannot be doing the same thing about bitcoin. It is different to encourage someone to invest or spend bitcoin, but it should be done with all consciousness and knowledge without any sense of obligation, and that's the mistake that many people make.

With the recent scam projections with bitcoin, so many businesses have stopped the use of bitcoin and that has affected it's adoption too. The only way to stay safe is learning about bitcoin security and phishing scams, for both bitcoin and stable coins as they are widely used for cross border payments.

[AprilioMP]

Most people choose Bitcoin as a Store of Value than a Medium of Exchange in order to grow their Bitcoin investment, to afford to buy more things and be inflation proof. Ofcourse, these are the main reasons they choose to use Bitcoin as Store of Value rather than spending them.  How do we convince them to also spend or use it as MoE?

Convincing people to use Bitcoin for shopping just like any other currency is possible if we live in a country that doesn’t ban it. As long as they live in a country that prohibits transactions using Bitcoin, convincing them is difficult—though not impossible.
Most people, myself included, prefer to use Bitcoin as a good investment asset for hedging. Even when I need to pay for something that’s due, I’d rather look for other alternatives than sell my Bitcoin.

[Comeacross]

And ofcourse, we know there are people who really want to spend their bitcoins but no reliable marketplace and fast payment system exist that they can do so easily  This is what we should be seriously working on otherwise we shouldn't blame them too much for not soending

Your idea is good but what do you think ordinary citizens would do about this? What you're proposing can only be achievable with government support. As ordinary citizens and bitcoin users, we don't have the power to create a reliable marketplace that people can easily trust. Only government can do that but citizens can also play some roles. As far as I concerned, people spending their bitcoin largely depend on government because if they are approved it (even with strict regulations) people won't be scare to accept it as mode of payment. The system is not making it easy for people to find spending convenient.

[TheUltraElite]

Great topic! I agree with Ucy and Josefjix that spending and earning Bitcoin creates a perfect circular economy. However, as BIT-BENDER noted, this is hard for average people because local adoption is still very limited. We need simpler platforms and more real-world merchants to make this cycle practical for everyone

Local adoption might be limited but we have so many Gift card sellers that quite a few well known brands in many countries are already listed there. I can purchase by daily groceries, monthly eat-out, phone bills with these gift cards. You can even buy apparel and jewellery there from the number of shops they got gift cards in but I have not spend bitcoin for those yet. The only bad thing is the premium that we have to pay to get these cards ~9-10%

Spending is not the problem, rather I feel quite a few users have been using bitcoin only for gambling and trading.

While long term holding is encouraged, short term spending for necessities is good enough.

[traderethereum]

The thing that we should understand is their government don't allow people to use Bitcoin as a payment so they choose to saving Bitcoin instead spending. That happens in my country where Bitcoin is prohibit for currency but the government allow Bitcoin to be investment but people could buy and sell Bitcoin in exchanges.
But I guess we can sell a product in online and the product will be available for all countries. We could get many potential customers from all countries especially those who lived in a country that allow to pay using Bitcoin.

[OsaiEmma]

Most people choose Bitcoin as a Store of Value than a Medium of Exchange in order to grow their Bitcoin investment, to afford to buy more things and be inflation proof. Ofcourse, these are the main reasons they choose to use Bitcoin as Store of Value rather than spending them.  How do we convince them to also spend or use it as MoE?
There are several ways to do that but let's focus on one for now:  selling products/services for bitcoins.  If you earn bitcoins in this manner, unlike those who have to convert from fiat or have no other source of income, why don't you spend them aswell, since you'll keeping earning more?

So basically, you're saying more businesses and vendors should integrate Bitcoin payments, right? Then you should consider regulations, this is one big hurdle out there you know—assuming we want to overlook volatility and complexity in the tech.

Now, not all businesses operate online, some local traders can't confidently establish an online shop because of the expenses involved, especially for new start-ups.

Unless there is an already established online market that new start-ups can just plug in and use.

To encourage spending, we need to introduce more ways to earn and also inform already earners to spend part of what they earn. They should have no problem spending bitcoins since they will be earning more. And if spenders are prudent or smart enough, they would be spending their bitcoins on things they can sell for more bitcoins, or things that help them produce more things they can sell for bitcoins.

Okay, maybe we can establish more ways to earn Bitcoin, but how can they spend Bitcoin on things that'll help them produce products to generate more Bitcoin? What if the seller of such product won't accept Bitcoin, then what? I think your model is somewhat naive and unrealistic. Or are you basically advising people to start spending Bitcoin more? Well, that is the basis of Bitcoin—online trade—but a whole lot of us would rather not.

And ofcourse, we know there are people who really want to spend their bitcoins but no reliable marketplace and fast payment system exist that they can do so easily  This is what we should be seriously working on otherwise we shouldn't blame them too much for not soending

This is perhaps the most coherent part of your post. Creating an online market place where producers, traders, and buyers can come and participate in trade in exchange for Bitcoin. This is a better model than those from your previous paragraph.

But, I'm not sure this alone can detar investors from still using Bitcoin as a store of value because they stand to gain much more that way.

[Natalim]

And ofcourse, we know there are people who really want to spend their bitcoins but no reliable marketplace and fast payment system exist that they can do so easily  This is what we should be seriously working on otherwise we shouldn't blame them too much for not soending

I don't think they really aim to spend their bitcoin after years of earning. They might be buying more instead so they can maximize their future profits. Bitcoin, regardless of its high volatility, is still more profitable as an investment asset rather than a medium of exchange.

Its not because of the government strict regulations, people just want to buy and hold more bitcoin than spend their bitcoin buying their wants and needs, when they can make it all happen if they spend their available fiat and save their bitcoin.

[Z_MBFM]

I agree with your point that Bitcoin can be spent in places where a good amount of Bitcoin can be earned in the future. But Bitcoin should not be spent in places where there is no possibility of getting Bitcoin later. Bitcoin was originally created for financial freedom where a Bitcoin owner can trade Bitcoin as he wishes and there will be no authorization in between his transactions. The owner of the coin has the sole power to trade his Bitcoin. But the price of Bitcoin is increasing day by day due to which everyone is more focused on holding than trading Bitcoin. Because if you spend Bitcoin, it ends but if you hold it, its value increases many times which works as the best and most profitable investment. So Bitcoin should never be spent unnecessarily but I will agree on spending Bitcoin where it is possible to earn Bitcoin.

[Maslate]

The thing that we should understand is their government don't allow people to use Bitcoin as a payment so they choose to saving Bitcoin instead spending. That happens in my country where Bitcoin is prohibit for currency but the government allow Bitcoin to be investment but people could buy and sell Bitcoin in exchanges.
But I guess we can sell a product in online and the product will be available for all countries. We could get many potential customers from all countries especially those who lived in a country that allow to pay using Bitcoin.

I understand that there are limited merchants accepting bitcoin, and that some government still discourage their people from using bitcoin but stick to fiat instead. However, I don't think this is the main reason why people are not spending their bitcoin.

Reality is, why do they have to spend it when they can make better profits from holding it longer and only sell when the price turns impressive. Spending their current amount of bitcoin would mean losing some profit opportunities. There is undeniable price growth for bitcoin, and that's the very main concern of the people. They prefer to spend their fiat instead as its value keep depreciating anyway.

[Questat]

I'm not in such circle OP, I am just going to keep doing what I feel it's best for me, I don't have to follow what others are doing with their Bitcoin and how they are getting it back, I have my own business and I have in many months accept Bitcoin payments until wrench attacks becomes popular and I stopped but right now I still spend my Bitcoin if I have to, like through cross border payment and when I can the money later I buy back some Bitcoin, I stopped getting paid in Bitcoin because of Wrench attacks, I hope you get that, everyone's situation in life will never be the same.

We don't own bitcoin just to follow the set standard for bitcoin, we own bitcoin because it gives us freedom. So I certainly agree on your point here. We will stick on where we are comfortable doing, on what is more profitable for us, and what is keeping us more security and safety.

If spending bitcoin and using it as a currency is what satisfies for others, then let it be. But personally, I prefer to do my own thing. I think that's why we are here with bitcoin, because it promotes freedom and privacy as well.

[BitcoinLitingNetwork]

It would be unfair to blame users for not spending their bitcoin, as the necessary infrastructure for its practical use has not yet been established if an average user finds that buying a cup of coffee with bitcoin requires a 10-minute wait, entails high fees, or is simply not accepted by the merchant, Once the technology and marketplace evolve to become as simple and reliable as users require, people will naturally begin to use bitcoin as a medium of exchange. Until these issues are resolved, holding bitcoin as a valuable store of value remains the most rational decision for users.

[Nwada001]

And ofcourse, we know there are people who really want to spend their bitcoins but no reliable marketplace and fast payment system exist that they can do so easily  This is what we should be seriously working on otherwise we shouldn't blame them too much for not soending

There is nothing that can be as effective as being a problem solver. If you discover that the Bitcoin community is lacking a perfect marketplace where we can easily buy and sell products in Bitcoin, allow others to also list their products there and sell to those who need them in exchange for Bitcoin. You can create that marketplace and promote it to your targeted audience and allow the idea to grow naturally. That is why the love of Bitcoin promotes it.

[Victorybit1]

Ever thought that maybe why it's harder to spend Bitcoin is due to government regulations, slow on-chain confirmation times, high mempool fee spikes or because of the force of trust for third parties?

In the future, if Bitcoin is to be spent as fast and easily as fiat, the regulations has to be acceptable, the payment systems needs to be fast and more convenient without ever risking the part of soverignty. Otherwise, it's better kept as an asset of value and hedge against inflation rather than being spent easily for almost any transactions.

Why do everyone keep going away from the obvious fact in this discussion, I mean with the little I have seen I think I believe so many persons have actually deviated from the actual purpose in which Satoshi even created Bitcoin for of which we all know it's used a store of value wasn't the primary idea although it later evolved into that and even became more popular than the obvious use as Internet money or currency.

I know everyone has the right to do with Bitcoin whatever they want, but it seems like a lot of the people actually just find means to store l, store and store atleast that's the impression that is spread across even the community here.