More evidence that Bitcoin was created by the US government

[nullius]

Attention, everyone who’s scrolling by to shitpost in this spam megathread:

Take three seconds to look at the link in OP.  “legiteum” totally made up the premise. 

• Tatsuaki Okamoto did not contribute to the cited paper.
• Tatsuaki Okamoto did not work for NSA.
• Tatsuaki Okamoto was a famous cryptographer.
• Only a knuckle-dragging racist idiot would equate “Tatsuaki Okamoto” with “Satoshi Nakamoto”.

This is grade A grifter bullshit to weave a conspiracy theory.

https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6727/67274380.html

<snip more conspiracy theorist bullshit, con-artist proof by making oneself sound confident and knowledgeable>

As for the rest of your apoplectic post... dude, calm down...  

Don’t you dare patronize me while ignoring that you were caught in a flat-out lie.

You fucking racist troll, idiot, and liar, this paper wasn’t even written by the person with the Japanese name:

There is lots of circumstantial evidence--although no direct evidence--that "Satoshi" was a person or team working within the US government.

Today I came across this paper, which was created in 1996 by employees at the NSA including Satoshi Nakamoto Tatsuaki Okamoto:

How To Make A Mint: The Cryptography of Anonymous Electronic Cash

(While I don't think Mr. Okamoto himself was Satoshi, I think it would be a fitting tribute name to give the "author" of Bitcoin a name that recalled his).

It’s not the first time I’ve seen that paper, by the way; the paper is very well-known.  But whether or not others here have seen it before, any literate person who clicks the link can see that you are lying:

HOW TO MAKE A MINT: THE CRYPTOGRAPHY OF ANONYMOUS ELECTRONIC CASH

Laurie Law, Susan Sabett, Jerry Solinas

National Security Agency Office of Information Security Research and Technology

Cryptology Division

18 June 1996

Tatsuaki Okamoto did not write that NSA paper—and in fact, Okamoto did not work for NSA.  Okamoto is a famous cryptographer (arguably best known for co-discovering the FO transform), a Japanese citizen, who worked for NTT (the Japanese telephone company; think of it like Japanese AT&T/Bell Labs).

Some of Okamoto’s work is discussed in §4.2 and §5 of Law’s, Sabett’s, and Solinas’ paper—and thus, three papers authored or co-authored by Okamoto are amongst the 14 papers cited by Law, Sabett, and Solinas.

Oh, but Tatsuaki Okamoto is a Japanese name like “Satoshi Nakamoto”.  All japs are the same, amirite?  And Okamoto is mentioned and cited in the paper, so Okamoto wrote the paper.

As a rule of thumb, Hanlon’s razor suggests that I should call you merely stupid, not malicious.  However, this is far too blatant and too ridiculous to be adequately explained by only stupidity.  The only plausible explanation is stupidity, plus Alex Jones tier dishonesty.

Therefore, I am giving you red distrust.  This is not mere disagreement of opinion:  You’re a grifter spreading misinformation.  You should not be trusted with money, either.

Your unedited OP is archived.  (Page 2, page 3 shortly before my post.)

P.S., don’t bother making excuses like “a superintelligent AI summarized it for me” or “a dog ate my homework” or whatever.  You are responsible for what you write—and when what you write falls into the category of totally making shit up, no reasonable person will believe your excuses, anyway.

<snip>

[Faisal2202]

1: Do governments really employ smart people? Well, yes, but it does not mean everything important or something that was a big breakthrough was developed by the government, although after the breakthrough, the government might take them under its protection or make some vows, etc.

2: I can't agree more with this. I also think sometimes that Satoshi can't be an ordinary amateur because to stay anonymous and hidden from the authorities, you definitely need a thorough knowledge of how to stay hidden and how they can trace you. If the agencies can't trace Satoshi, does that make Satoshi a person who can't be traced, or have the agencies never tried?

4: Really, having billions in an account can force anyone to come out and use it. I would have used my coins if I had billions of them. At least I would have tried to use them while staying behind the curtain, but how strong do you have to be to hold onto billions like this? A weak state would have given up by now.

So I agree with some of your points in this questionable stance, but we can't really prove whether he was a government person or it was a government project, because it's sure he was a Japanese guy, right? So how many Japanese guys are working in agencies? They could easily shortlist a person with this background if you say Satoshi tried to stay in the shadows even from the agencies. So either it was a government project and he was their employee, or it wasn't, and he is really good at what he did.

Although when I read about Len Sassaman, his work, and his suicide, it all sounds so fictional and pre-planned, or maybe I watch too many movies, haha.

[YOSHIE]

There is lots of circumstantial evidence--although no direct evidence--that "Satoshi" was a person or team working within the US government.

Yes, news about conspiracy theories and speculation that Bitcoin was created by the United States government has spread widely, especially in the crypto community, but currently, as far as I know, there is no concrete evidence or an official document that dares and proves this argument officially in public, What's worse is that the argument is aimed at US government agencies such as the CIA or NSA, many in the community say that they are Satoshi Nakamoto.

The theory and speculation that the US government is part of the creator of Bitcoin, is caused by the behavior of the US government, the reason is because they can currently be said to have the largest Bitcoin reserves due to the confiscation process and various other arguments, therapy actually if we look at the contradictions, Satoshi's Encryption Choice is very different from the involvement of the US government where the US government recommends NIST P-256 while Satoshi Nakamoto himself recommends secp256k1, In fact, this is a statement to weaken the involvement of the US government in interfering with or defrauding Bitcoin.

[legiteum]

Why do you think the US government created and maintains bitcoin?

I don't, and never implied that the US government maintains Bitcoin. Bitcoin core is maintained by the Bitcoin core team, not the US government.

Satoshi, no matter how you define him/her/they, has not been involved with Bitcoin in any way for over 13 years.

Maybe you should try to read the OP again, because you have interpreted something rather bizarre here.

Um, you don't seem to understand how Bitcoin works. It is not a secret system run by some guy named Satoshi. Finding Satoshi would not de-decentralized Bitcoin.  

Regardless, I think the much simpler explanation is that people are curious...

I know perfectly well what i am saying. Ask yourself why is who Satoshi was is such a big deal that some people spent billions on knowing who he was, if it's not for shady purposes?

Nobody has spent "billions" trying to discover the identity of Satoshi. Where did you get that idea? Journalists have spent perhaps a few million over the years, but mostly it's just been a lot of time by individuals.

Satoshi identity not been know is the reason why some people didn't sue him for the features of Bitcoin because some people never like the idea BTC.

You cannot sue somebody because you don't like the idea of their product. Satoshi would be under absolutely zero risk of being sued for creating Bitcoin.

So I agree with some of your points in this questionable stance, but we can't really prove whether he was a government person or it was a government project, because it's sure he was a Japanese guy, right?

I never said nor implied that Satoshi was a Japanese guy, only the the NSA paper cited a Japanese researcher with a name that sounds a little like Satoshi's---and that calling their project that would have made a nice tribute to this researcher, Tatsuaki Okamoto.

Indeed, even if Satoshi was not the US government, there's still a decent chance that the author of Bitcoin called himself Satoshi because of Tatsuaki Okamoto. That sounds pretty plausible I think.

Satoshi's Encryption Choice is very different from the involvement of the US government where the US government recommends NIST P-256 while Satoshi Nakamoto himself recommends secp256k1, In fact, this is a statement to weaken the involvement of the US government in interfering with or defrauding Bitcoin.

As somebody who has used encryption on a higher level, my assumption would be that this choice was based on the availability of libraries, the ease of implementation, and so on. Both approaches are perfectly secure, so the only difference at the application level has nothing to do with the actual algorithm.

And again, the US government has 2 million workers. Just because you work for the US government doesn't mean you magically know everything the US government does or what every other worker is thinking.

[Upgrade00]

I don't, and never implied that the US government maintains Bitcoin. Bitcoin core is maintained by the Bitcoin core team, not the US government.

"Maintains" in the sense that they're leaving billions on the table to avoid a situation they do not want
Ignore that regardless; why do you think they created it?

[legiteum]

I don't, and never implied that the US government maintains Bitcoin. Bitcoin core is maintained by the Bitcoin core team, not the US government.

"Maintains" in the sense that they're leaving billions on the table to avoid a situation they do not want
Ignore that regardless; why do you think they created it?

Ah okay, I understand your point now.

So your question is, why is the US government essentially spending $80 billion to keep a state secret?

First, they wouldn't really profit all of that if they simply wanted to sell it since it would affect the market, so it's more likely they'd see maybe 25% or 50% of that at the most.

Second, in the scheme of the US government, whose annual budget is over $5T, $80 billion isn't very much in actual reality (although politically it would be a big deal if it came out that the US had this money).

Finally, it is, well, a state secret and the US has spent many billions keeping those through history, as have other countries spent a small percentage of their GDP to do so as well. If it came out officially that the US government was Satoshi, it would have a lot of collateral damage from an intelligence standpoint. Plus, this would be a political and bureaucratic shitstorm that probably nobody within the US government would want.

Oh, and one other point: it's likely that very very few people within the US government would know this secret. Even the president could be kept from a secret like this if they don't specifically ask for it. It's even possible that only the team within the agency knows. Heck, it's even possible that Satoshi was one guy working in the US government and never told a single person. This last would actually explain a lot as well (i.e. why he never revealed himself or why he never spent any of his BTC).

As to why he/they did this work, I think people vastly overthink it: Satoshi didn't have to have a reason, nor did it have to be part of some grand plan. Maybe it was just a worker who was given leeway to do his own projects and thought this would be cool.

[nullius]

Cross-reference to Reputation:  legiteum (u=3597964) and Haypenny.net

[Ab de villiers]

You might say Satoshi once worked for the US government. That might fly. But saying the US government created Bitcoin is not true. Take a look at world today. Who rules the world? USA of course. They love control. Bitcoin on the other hand is a stand alone entity. No government can control it. So tell me, for a country that loves control, will it be happy over Bitcoin creation? No.

Look at it again from this angle, the USA loves to give sanctions and Bitcoin can make countries that sanctions are imposed on them to bypass that. So how will that ever favour the US?

Theories and conspiracies will stay here till facts open because things are working, it's always challenging to reveal who Satoshi was and how he did it. I am personally also sure it's never been the work of one person, it's been done by a team, but how and why is a mystery because in the last 17 years there is no clue about anything, meaning it's going to take more time, but once it's going to be open. A few years back, many were talking about it, but then again, it's moving around Satoshi because he never appears about any fact or anything about this with nothing special happening about Bitcoin creating meaning. It's still going to stay like this, but it's surely going to have something for future generations, which could be all the details and hidden facts.

[Chinesebaby]

Theories and conspiracies will stay here till facts open because things are working, it's always challenging to reveal who Satoshi was and how he did it. I am personally also sure it's never been the work of one person, it's been done by a team, but how and why is a mystery because in the last 17 years there is no clue about anything, meaning it's going to take more time, but once it's going to be open. A few years back, many were talking about it, but then again, it's moving around Satoshi because he never appears about any fact or anything about this with nothing special happening about Bitcoin creating meaning. It's still going to stay like this, but it's surely going to have something for future generations, which could be all the details and hidden facts.

I made a glance through most of the comments on this thread, and judging by the statistics and data surrounding the existence of Bitcoin, I won't be surprsed if eventually Bitcoin is been revealed as a project that was initiated by a team from the United States of America.  Because judging by the fact the identity of Satoshi Nakamoto  or anything linked to him still remains a mystery to the public, then it just justifies the statement as if it might have been a well plan event, and anybody knoown to plan a stuff like Bitcoin can not be anybody but the government itself.  

[#CapsLOck]

It is important to note here that the genesis block is a special one. Because of how bitcoin deals with the genesis transaction. It was originally given a reward of 50 btc. Which is not an amount that can be spent. So it can't be used as proof of a deliberate decision on Satoshis part not to spend the reward. Still it doesn't explain why other coins often assigned to Satoshi have not been accessed, and wallet inactivity doesn't necessarily mean they were lost by their owner, or the owner opted not to spend, or for some other reason. The theory is just speculation. However since there is no direct evidence linking Satoshi to any government agency.

[Alvin_talk]

I have a question for those users who claim bitcoin is an American backed project. Can you defend this in court? Because I wonder why we have forgotten so soon that assumption is not evidence, rather, an allegation. This is the same thing as saying I am a criminal simply because my physique make me appear like one. It is not substantial evidence, it is just an allegation against me based on my appearance.

If there is no clear evidence that Bitcoin is owned by any government then there is no need to beat about the bush here. OP, I'll suggest you lock this thread while you look for substantial evidence to backup your claims, because as it stands right now, this thread is just filled with vague information/assumption about bitcoin and that is spamming IMO.

[Curious T]

This is grade A grifter bullshit to weave a conspiracy theory.

I know that there is truth to some conspiracy theories, but most of the conspiracy theories do the same thing, and it's exactly what OP did in this post. Even people who try to analyse certain things do the same thing. They will take a series of unrelated events and paint a picture that makes those events similar. I think I've seen someone on this forum talk about these things before. What makes it more effective is that they will come up with their theory and leave it to you to debunk it and show proof of why you think they are wrong, thereby putting you on the defensive. It's what flat-earthers do to those who take them seriously. It's the same pattern in every conspiracy theory. Name any theory, and you will see this is exactly the case.

[legiteum]

I have a question for those users who claim bitcoin is an American backed project. Can you defend this in court?

No, and that's a strawman. Absolutely nobody here is insinuating that the OP is presenting definitive proof, let alone legal proof.

There's circumstantial evidence that Bitcoin was created by a person or group of people working for the US government.

There's absolutely no other theory of Satoshi that makes any sense whatsoever.

That's not proof of anything, but it's a promising avenue to pursue, and an interesting thing to contemplate.

[...] It's what flat-earthers do to those who take them seriously. [...]

That simply talking about evidence of this theory makes a few people in this forum absolutely lose their shit makes the whole subject... much more interesting.  

The Earth is definitively spherical. Satoshi was not definitively not an employee of the US government. There's no absolute proof of that or any other theory of Satoshi. There's evidence of the US government theory, and it is consistent with the facts as we know them, and consistent with norms of human behavior. For me, that makes it the best theory we have in lieu of any better theory. But it's still a theory and nobody here is asserting otherwise.

But to hear some of you tell it, I'm denying the freakin holocaust...  

As many here have pointed out that, were this theory to be true, it wouldn't make any operational difference to Bitcoin. Hence the reaction here is purely emotional--and personally I'm not seeing where that emotion is coming from, but boy howdy is it ever present!  

[nullius]

[...] It's what flat-earthers do to those who take them seriously. [...]

That simply talking about evidence of this theory makes a few people in this forum absolutely lose their shit makes the whole subject... much more interesting.  

The Earth is definitively spherical. Satoshi was not definitively not an employee of the US government. There's no absolute proof of that or any other theory of Satoshi.

The Law, Sabett, and Solinas (1996) paper was definitely not authored by Tatsuaki Okamoto.  You claim it was.

At the relevant time, Tatsuaki Okamoto was definitely a Japanese NTT employee, with no known connection to the American NSA.  You claim that Okamoto worked for NSA.

Those are matters of facts.  Cold, hard facts.  In my opinion, only a KKK-tier racist would claim that Satoshi Nakamoto is Tatsuaki Okamoto just because (by unavoidable implication of your OP), hurr durr, them jap names all look alike.  “ ”  You did.  Holy shit, you actually did.

In fact, you have definitely dodged all of these issues in your multiple replies since I called you out for your lies.  You continue to act authoritative, and to spout confident-sounding bullshit.

It is why I call you a scammer, and I tagged you with negative trust feedback to inhibit you from using your forum account to promote your shady-looking Haypenny garbage.  The “Bitcoin Discussion” forum has many nonsense threads and wild conspiracy theories about Satoshi; I ignore most of them, lest I waste my life on the infinite supply of nonsense.  You go way beyond the usual nonsense.

That simply talking about evidence of this theory makes a few people in this forum absolutely lose their shit makes the whole subject... much more interesting.  

You did not present any evidence.  You did tell a flat-out lie.

Acting like others overreact to that is manipulative gaslighting—and in the context, it’s also fast converging toward another common conspiracy theorist antipattern.  For extra crackpot points, try claiming that you’re like Galileo, and I’m persecuting you for speaking heretical truths.

P.S., the Earth is definitely an oblate spheroid—not a sphere.

This is grade A grifter bullshit to weave a conspiracy theory.

I know that there is truth to some conspiracy theories, but most of the conspiracy theories do the same thing, and it's exactly what OP did in this post. Even people who try to analyse certain things do the same thing. They will take a series of unrelated events and paint a picture that makes those events similar. I think I've seen someone on this forum talk about these things before.

What makes it more effective is that they will come up with their theory and leave it to you to debunk it and show proof of why you think they are wrong, thereby putting you on the defensive.

It's what flat-earthers do to those who take them seriously. It's the same pattern in every conspiracy theory. Name any theory, and you will see this is exactly the case.

Well said—generally.  I added paragraph breaks to the quote, and quoted the whole thing, because I want to encourage people to read it.

The part you left out here:  legiteum totally made up a falsehood about the authorship of a paper—as anyone can see if they click the link in OP, and look at the three authors’ names at the top.  Etc., etc.  See above.