The "Decoy PIN"

[briggswillis4real]

The "Decoy PIN"

 I setup 3 wallets on ONE hardware wallet. Most people don't know this is possible.


Everyone knows about seed + passphrase. But I rarely see people talk about using MULTIPLE hidden layers on the same device.

What I did on my Coldcard / Trezor / Ledger

Check this out!

In Wallet 1 - PIN 1234 Decoy with $50 in it. If someone puts a wrench to my head, I give this PIN. It looks real.

In Wallet 2 - PIN 5678 My real savings. Different seed entirely? No, same device, different passphrase that no one knows exists.

In Wallet 3 - PIN + SD Card My inheritance wallet. Needs both the PIN + the microSD card to even unlock. SD is hidden elsewhere.

So one physical device holds 3 completely different realities. An attacker would stop after finding Wallet 1 with $50 dollars in it.

- Do you use a decoy wallet?
 How much do you keep in it to make it believable?

- Has anyone tested if this works after firmware updates?

Does the hidden passphrase survive?
 I heard you can create a wallet that bricks itself after 3 wrong PINs and wipes the decoy only. Anyone done this?

I feel like 90% of hardware wallet users only use 1 PIN and lose the whole plausible deniability feature. Am I overcomplicating it?

[Coyster]

I feel like 90% of hardware wallet users only use 1 PIN and lose the whole plausible deniability feature. Am I overcomplicating it?

Using a passphrase to create a few hidden wallets for plausible deniability is not a bad idea, but talking about your exact setup on an internet forum is. I know nobody knows who you are here, but you sound like an excited guy who would discuss things like this where they shouldn't and then attract the attackers you wanted to avoid.

I heard you can create a wallet that bricks itself after 3 wrong PINs and wipes the decoy only. Anyone done this?

In most hardware wallets, 3 wrong attempts at entering the pin would factory reset the device and erase all data on it. At that point, you can only access your funds with your seed phrase.

[joniboini]

- Has anyone tested if this works after firmware updates?

That would depends on what HW you use and what kind of updates it receives. Most developers would probably give you a notice that updating to certain version requires a specific setup and might break some things, so you can always check them first before updating your device. But as always, there's always a risk when updating so at the end of the day keeping your seed phrase safe is the priority. CMIIW.

[nc50lc]

I feel like 90% of hardware wallet users only use 1 PIN and lose the whole plausible deniability feature. Am I overcomplicating it?

You're good.
It's perfectly normal, if the hardware wallet doesn't support duress PIN, most users rely on hidden wallet via Passphrase.

- Do you use a decoy wallet?
 How much do you keep in it to make it believable?

No one's in their right mind would answer this, even if Bitcointalk profiles can be anonymous, you'll never know if you're a target.
Take Coyster's recommendation to keep your setup private.

But I can tell that the sample $50 isn't realistic for someone who've purchased a hardware wallet, that's a hot wallet pocket money.
A mugger with at least average IQ will be able to tell that there's something more in it.
Plus, "hidden wallet" isn't entirely new so someone who knows Bitcoin/Crypto (since he knows about HW) might consider this as a possibility, specially with small amounts.

[BitMaxz]

But I can tell that the sample $50 isn't realistic for someone who've purchased a hardware wallet, that's a hot wallet pocket money.
A mugger with at least average IQ will be able to tell that there's something more in it.
Plus, "hidden wallet" isn't entirely new so someone who knows Bitcoin/Crypto (since he knows about HW) might consider this as a possibility, specially with small amounts.

Well, I will think something more about this wallet. Why did he hold only $50 with a $150+ hardware wallet?
I would think there's something else about this hardware wallet, and do another brute force attack to find the other pin since I know the Duress pin or dual pin.

However, even though he had 3 different pins in a single seed phrase, the pins only protect the device itself from physical and remote access. If the device is already being breached, like the tampered devices, having this many pins won't help.

And the most effective extra layer of protection for hardware wallets is to make a multisig wallet with 2 or 3 different brand hardware wallets, but the only downside is the transaction fee is higher than the standard one.

[stompix]

But I can tell that the sample $50 isn't realistic for someone who've purchased a hardware wallet, that's a hot wallet pocket money.
A mugger with at least average IQ will be able to tell that there's something more in it.
Plus, "hidden wallet" isn't entirely new so someone who knows Bitcoin/Crypto (since he knows about HW) might consider this as a possibility, specially with small amounts.

This is some Xkcd stuff 
Crypto bros always think they have outsmarted the thief, assailant, etc with some trick that would not fool an elementary school kid.
Like seriously, when you start feeling that wrench or hammer on your fingertips, do you think you will keep staying silent for what, two or three seconds? In a few hits you will remember the first day of school, the weather at that time, the people you met, what you had for lunch, and how many steps you took that day.

Also, why in the name of god would you carry your wallet with your life savings with you?

[Riginac111]

But I can tell that the sample $50 isn't realistic for someone who've purchased a hardware wallet, that's a hot wallet pocket money.
A mugger with at least average IQ will be able to tell that there's something more in it.
Plus, "hidden wallet" isn't entirely new so someone who knows Bitcoin/Crypto (since he knows about HW) might consider this as a possibility, specially with small amounts.

Well, I will think something more about this wallet. Why did he hold only $50 with a $150+ hardware wallet?

i want to know the reason everyone why is asking same question, why did he hold only $50 with a $150 hardware wallet? But you can buy a hardware wallet with $50 and above, depending on the brand you want and the screen type or the standard you want, going for higher price depends on what you want, we don't even know if op buy the cheapest one.

[TryNinja]

Well, I will think something more about this wallet. Why did he hold only $50 with a $150+ hardware wallet?

i want to know the reason everyone why is asking same question, why did he hold only $50 with a $150 hardware wallet? But you can buy a hardware wallet with $50 and above, depending on the brand you want and the screen type or the standard you want, going for higher price depends on what you want, we don't even know if op buy the cheapest one.
[/quote]
That's because if you're using $50 as a decoy, it probably won't work.

Xkcd was mentioned above...



But I understand that's not really the point. The number doesn't really matter, because someone that worries enough to have a decoy wallet will probably know best that he needs at least a few grands to make an attacker go home happily.