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MarryWithBTC
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November 04, 2026, 09:07:39 PM
 #21

When mixers were banned in this forum, I was not happy about it then because I felt doing that was at variance with the principles upon which bitcoin was built.

I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you here.  That lie was a narrative pushed by people trying to force support for mixers on this website.  There is absolutely nothing about Bitcoin that even hints that you should trust a 3rd party service with your personal information in order to obtain financial privacy.  It is actually the opposite.  If this community wants financial privacy for their Bitcoin, they need to develop it into the software so everyone can enjoy it.  Not limit it to fake privacy for whoever wants to trust a honeypot so spammers can profit.
What?... It is true that there's nothing about bitcoin that hints that we should trust a third party;

But why has it been widely accepted that a fight against mixers is a fight against privacy and bitcoin. Well, a fight against privacy is true, but against bitcoin might not be true.

You mentioned that if the community wants financial privacy for their bitcoin, they should develop it into the software. As an OG, is that feasible or will you even endorse such a move - shielding the transparent ledger.

I have been involved in similar discussion on the mixer ban thread, where another OG said that bitcoin transparency was a design flaw.

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November 04, 2026, 09:38:01 PM
 #22

When mixers were banned in this forum, I was not happy about it then because I felt doing that was at variance with the principles upon which bitcoin was built.

I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you here.  That lie was a narrative pushed by people trying to force support for mixers on this website.  There is absolutely nothing about Bitcoin that even hints that you should trust a 3rd party service with your personal information in order to obtain financial privacy.  It is actually the opposite.  If this community wants financial privacy for their Bitcoin, they need to develop it into the software so everyone can enjoy it.  Not limit it to fake privacy for whoever wants to trust a honeypot so spammers can profit.
What?... It is true that there's nothing about bitcoin that hints that we should trust a third party;

But why has it been widely accepted that a fight against mixers is a fight against privacy and bitcoin. Well, a fight against privacy is true, but against bitcoin might not be true.

You mentioned that if the community wants financial privacy for their bitcoin, they should develop it into the software. As an OG, is that feasible or will you even endorse such a move - shielding the transparent ledger.

I have been involved in similar discussion on the mixer ban thread, where another OG said that bitcoin transparency was a design flaw.

I used to think that Bitcoin transparency was a major benefit to it.  However, that opinion has changed after 15 years.  Now I see it as an attack vector.  For example, I'm currently being attacked with lies and claiming I control addresses that I don't.  If people don't have any technical knowledge, they could just choose to believe the lies even though transparency tells the true story.  Worse, I have seen only a handful of operations use Bitcoin's transparency.  Even the great Saylor won't prove reserves.  So what good is transparency if its only use is to attack individuals that the blockchain should prove innocent while few go through the effort of even learning how to read what is shown? 

I've always been for financial privacy and have said that for many years.  I've also said it needs to be done at the protocol level instead of 3rd parties that can't be trusted themselves.  The goal was that we could Trojan Horse Bitcoin into the financial system and then activate privacy, but when you follow the money you realize the exact opposite is happening.  Bitcoin is being Trojan Horsed with sidechains that can be hacked and have funds frozen by 3rd parties.

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MarryWithBTC
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November 04, 2026, 10:43:10 PM
 #23

I used to think that Bitcoin transparency was a major benefit to it.  However, that opinion has changed after 15 years.  Now I see it as an attack vector.  For example, I'm currently being attacked with lies and claiming I control addresses that I don't.  If people don't have any technical knowledge, they could just choose to believe the lies even though transparency tells the true story.  Worse, I have seen only a handful of operations use Bitcoin's transparency.  Even the great Saylor won't prove reserves.  So what good is transparency if its only use is to attack individuals that the blockchain should prove innocent while few go through the effort of even learning how to read what is shown? 
From the bolded part of your post, I could deduce that the problem isn't the transparent network. As you also acknowledged in your post, lack of technical understanding of the bitcoin could be a barrirer.

Some could make false claims or allegations even when the network data itself is very accurate. The major problem here could be the interpretation of the transparent information and not transparency itself.

I've always been for financial privacy and have said that for many years.  I've also said it needs to be done at the protocol level instead of 3rd parties that can't be trusted themselves.  The goal was that we could Trojan Horse Bitcoin into the financial system and then activate privacy, but when you follow the money you realize the exact opposite is happening.  Bitcoin is being Trojan Horsed with sidechains that can be hacked and have funds frozen by 3rd parties.
Wonderful! I haven't been aware of this goal. Was this a pronounced or written goal by satoshi and the OGs, or it's your perspective of the transparent design.

Pretend to be transparent, integrate with the financial system and then activate privacy - a very smart approach. But in the present reality, the goal has failed. I said so because the network is large now and reaching a consensus to activate protocol privacy is not possible when there is xmr and their likes

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