Too many injustice with seizures of Bitcoin

[hd49728]

I don't have to read the post on X. If the convicted killer didn't steal or obtain these BTC via illegal methods, the court cannot confiscate the BTC from his wallet. The "innocent until proven guilty" rule is valid for everyone. The court could order the guy to pay a financial compensation to the family of the person, whom he murdered, but that's a different case scenario.

The principle of considering a person as "innocent until proven guilty" is only true and practically applied in nations with democracy and fair law regulations. In nations with distorted and centralized power and law enforcement like China or North Korea for example, this principle is not applied in society.

If the government need money and feel like they can take it from you, they will do it and in such nations, you are unable to sue the government and win against it.

Bitcoin is magic and powerful for Bitcoin users because if they have private keys, mnemonic seed of their wallets, they control wallets and bitcoins by themselves, without risk of freeze from government. If they live a private life, it's not easy for government to know about their Bitcoin investment and Bitcoin holding, then less risk of arrest and bitcoin seizure by government.

[Captain Corporate]

The fact that they returned the bitcoin to the family makes to much difference, you are only concerned because you’re a bitcoin enthusiast but remove the name bitcoin from the equation would you support they give wealth of the convicted killer back to his family? Of course personally I would say yes only based on his crime if he did some kind of revenge thing or something that I find just but not just by the law he can have his bitcoin/money back as long as it was not stole or gotten from the said crime.

The actual point is what you said at the end. It shouldn't be legally allowed for the government or authorities to seize wealth or belongings from a person who has committed a crime as long as the belongings or assets aren't related to that crime or any crime they have committed in the past, which means that if the belongings are their own and are totally clean, their family should get the custody of those belongings. However, if someone is found guilty of a crime in which or through which they got those belongings, then the authorities would have every right to seize them.

This law should apply everywhere, and every country's constitution should have it imposed. This has nothing to do with someone being a Bitcoin enthusiast or anything, it's a very basic rule and it should be a valid law. If I have worked all my life and made so much money, bought bitcoins or properties with that clean money, but then unfortunately I committed a crime, that crime shouldn't get all my hard work wasted and give authorities the right to get their hands on everything I own, especially if I have heirs.

[Japinat]

The government would not care about that as it's just a small amount estimated at less than $200k based on what I read. So it's just a small amount of money and they would not make an effort to intervene, but if that was 5k Bitcoin or more they might take over. So you can say the judge did the right thing and the government did not interfere, simply because it's just immaterial to them. That's the real reason.

The government shouldn't take custody of a coin seized from criminals if the victims can be identified. Those involved can sue the government and can have a favorable judgment. There are some examples where the government gave back money to people who were scammed after the funds were seized. The Mt. Gox and FTX cases are examples where the money was not seized or auctioned by the government. Rather, victims got their money, although it took a long time, as in the case of Mt. Gox.

That would be good if that's what they will do, but in reality it's hard to sue the government because the chances of winning is close to 0. And although the victims are identified, it does not mean the government will return the funds to them as there's a case involving a Chinese scam where the scammer converted the money into Bitcoin and was later caught in the UK, but the UK government is trying to recover the Bitcoin for the state, although the victims are also claiming their share and could end up receiving only their original investment plus interest, see how greedy that looks.

[YellowSwap]

The law is very clear about these matters. If the wealth, assets, and all other possessions that a convicted man has got came from illegal sources and were stolen from others, they're going to seize them and return them to the rightful owner. But if they have found no fault in it, let the convicted man pay his penalty on the specific crime that he's done and not for what he's got prior to the crime he's done. Unless you're in a government that has got a dictator leader, they can seize everything that people have worked for and they'll use the man's crime for confiscating what they've worked hard all of their lifetime.

In the case of cryptocurrencies I've never seen where a government seize an amount of coins from any criminal and return them back to original owners, not in my own country or in others.

If they can come out in the public to disclose the seizure of some Bitcoin from hackers or criminals they can also come out and tell us with proof that they have returned all Bitcoin back to the original owners. 

The UK holds significant amount of Bitcoin seized from criminals online, the same thing with the United States too, tell me how they can get the criminals arrested and not the original owners.

[oll]

I believe that the law or the government taking over someones Bitcoin simply because they are criminal is a fraud idea, and all thanks to this Canadian Judge for doing something right, I doubt something like this can play out in America.
They are birds of same feathers just like the scammers and the hackers.

And that's absolutely correct, but in the country where I live, you can't expect any protection for the integrity of a Bitcoin wallet. A long time ago, a federal police chief was found with his personal wallet, which he used to collect Bitcoin from those he had convicted. He kept it right on his desk. I can't imagine how he was arrested, because such individuals are very good at bribing, sharing part of their money or Bitcoin. But apparently, he was so greedy that the executive authorities of the judiciary or the prosecutor's office couldn't turn a blind eye. Unfortunately, this practice of confiscating Bitcoin by executive authorities is very common. And that's why the case you described is truly astonishing.

[BlackBoss_]

In the case of cryptocurrencies I've never seen where a government seize an amount of coins from any criminal and return them back to original owners, not in my own country or in others.

If they can come out in the public to disclose the seizure of some Bitcoin from hackers or criminals they can also come out and tell us with proof that they have returned all Bitcoin back to the original owners.  

In theory, there is a very long and complicated legal procedure to handle such cases and victims must have enough evidence to prove that they're actual victims of criminals but most people don't back up things so that they mostly fail to prove it.

Assuming that you lost your coins forever is more realistic because Mt.Gox victims after more than a decade have yet received their money back. Be knowledgeable, be as most careful with your practice as possible, and secure your devices, accounts, wallets as best as possible to avoid such incidents. Because with them, if you are a victim, you mostly can not get your coin back directly from scammers, hackers or indirectly from governments.

Mt. Gox History: The Hack, the Collapse and the Long Road to Repayment.

[uchegod-21]

In the case of cryptocurrencies I've never seen where a government seize an amount of coins from any criminal and return them back to original owners, not in my own country or in others.

If they can come out in the public to disclose the seizure of some Bitcoin from hackers or criminals they can also come out and tell us with proof that they have returned all Bitcoin back to the original owners.  

In theory, there is a very long and complicated legal procedure to handle such cases and victims must have enough evidence to prove that they're actual victims of criminals but most people don't back up things so that they mostly fail to prove it.

Assuming that you lost your coins forever is more realistic because Mt.Gox victims after more than a decade have yet received their money back. Be knowledgeable, be as most careful with your practice as possible, and secure your devices, accounts, wallets as best as possible to avoid such incidents. Because with them, if you are a victim, you mostly can not get your coin back directly from scammers, hackers or indirectly from governments.

Mt. Gox History: The Hack, the Collapse and the Long Road to Repayment.

It is more complicated when bitcoin is illegal in the country where the victim resides. The victim will have little or no chance at all to recover his lost bitcoins because there will be no legal protection or legal provisions made to protect the citizens. Even with all the evidences, it might still lead to nothing.

That is why, anyone who has a coin to protect must uphold the safest security practices because even if the government will return some bitcoins to victims, it will take a very long time and process for it to be done. It is better to avoid being caught up in such a situation.

[suzanne5223]

Each country have their own rules and regulations.
The US civil asset forfeiture maybe see as something often far more aggressive and lower-bar, which is why cases like this feel rare.
Once the government prove the Bitcoin is proceeds of crime or was used in the offence. Just being a convicted criminal doesn't automatically make every asset forfeit I believe this was look into with every case handled by the US government.
I believe the judge that actually handled the case in subject required evidence of a link and since nothing is provided, so the wallet goes back.
I believe this principle is applied whether it's fiat, real estate, or Bitcoin.

[bhadz]

The law is very clear about these matters. If the wealth, assets, and all other possessions that a convicted man has got came from illegal sources and were stolen from others, they're going to seize them and return them to the rightful owner. But if they have found no fault in it, let the convicted man pay his penalty on the specific crime that he's done and not for what he's got prior to the crime he's done. Unless you're in a government that has got a dictator leader, they can seize everything that people have worked for and they'll use the man's crime for confiscating what they've worked hard all of their lifetime.

In the case of cryptocurrencies I've never seen where a government seize an amount of coins from any criminal and return them back to original owners, not in my own country or in others.

If they can come out in the public to disclose the seizure of some Bitcoin from hackers or criminals they can also come out and tell us with proof that they have returned all Bitcoin back to the original owners.  

The UK holds significant amount of Bitcoin seized from criminals online, the same thing with the United States too, tell me how they can get the criminals arrested and not the original owners.

Even the proofs, I don't think that they will outright return it to those who will claim it. AFAIK, it's not only UK and US has got that seized Bitcoins from criminals. Bulgaria was also said to be on the top of that list before due to the confiscating of their authorities but, I have no news right now about and they have also denied it. So, it's becoming a finders keepers thing and whoever comes out to claim it might even be charged for having that fund and will be questioned and get suspicious about where it came from.

[Antotena]

Even the proofs, I don't think that they will outright return it to those who will claim it. AFAIK, it's not only UK and US has got that seized Bitcoins from criminals. Bulgaria was also said to be on the top of that list before due to the confiscating of their authorities but, I have no news right now about and they have also denied it. So, it's becoming a finders keepers thing and whoever comes out to claim it might even be charged for having that fund and will be questioned and get suspicious about where it came from.

I have something interesting for you, it was posted 6 hours ago by watcher Guru.

JUST IN: 🇺🇸 Former FBI agent pleads guilty to stealing $2.47 million in cryptocurrency using wallet credentials obtained from FBI investigations.

https://x.com/watcherguru/status/2118667115209380045

An FBI that swore to protect lives and property was caught, he stoked millions during an investigation, that shows that the government are the biggest scammers but do it under the power of governments.

The government can return Bitcoin seize back to original owners if they have the intention. Unlike then that transactions are hard to traces, we have many chain analytical tools that can track how coins started and end in a wallet address. Most of these seize Bitcoin one day are either going to be auction out or will be used for donations or even for emergency which will depend on the government in power. Most often, they are indirectly handed over to their friends through the means I mentioned.

[bhadz]

Even the proofs, I don't think that they will outright return it to those who will claim it. AFAIK, it's not only UK and US has got that seized Bitcoins from criminals. Bulgaria was also said to be on the top of that list before due to the confiscating of their authorities but, I have no news right now about and they have also denied it. So, it's becoming a finders keepers thing and whoever comes out to claim it might even be charged for having that fund and will be questioned and get suspicious about where it came from.

I have something interesting for you, it was posted 6 hours ago by watcher Guru.

JUST IN: 🇺🇸 Former FBI agent pleads guilty to stealing $2.47 million in cryptocurrency using wallet credentials obtained from FBI investigations.

https://x.com/watcherguru/status/2118667115209380045

An FBI that swore to protect lives and property was caught, he stoked millions during an investigation, that shows that the government are the biggest scammers but do it under the power of governments.

The government can return Bitcoin seize back to original owners if they have the intention. Unlike then that transactions are hard to traces, we have many chain analytical tools that can track how coins started and end in a wallet address. Most of these seize Bitcoin one day are either going to be auction out or will be used for donations or even for emergency which will depend on the government in power. Most often, they are indirectly handed over to their friends through the means I mentioned.

Nice, it didn't take long until we finally got an example of these incidents. They do the operations, raids, and seizures, and they get all of those wallet details, credentials, and other things. Now, if it's already in their custody, they have an idea of these wallets, and they can access it anytime. I can compare this to local operations of related drug cases, they keep the item and wait for the case to lie low and sell it. But for this case, let's wait if they're going to return it to the rightful owner, since it's a huge amount. Otherwise, they'll claim it that the funds were no longer there.

[Adiljutt156]

The principle of considering a person as "innocent until proven guilty" is only true and practically applied in nations with democracy and fair law regulations. In nations with distorted and centralized power and law enforcement like China or North Korea for example, this principle is not applied in society.

If the government need money and feel like they can take it from you, they will do it and in such nations, you are unable to sue the government and win against it.

Bitcoin is magic and powerful for Bitcoin users because if they have private keys, mnemonic seed of their wallets, they control wallets and bitcoins by themselves, without risk of freeze from government. If they live a private life, it's not easy for government to know about their Bitcoin investment and Bitcoin holding, then less risk of arrest and bitcoin seizure by government.

The first paragraph of your post is all about how things are working in even a few countries that are having so-called democracy, also not giving free trials and justice because they are having things that are important for their so-called democratic system, with the justice system still controlled because of many stories and details I read about a few cases where things are not working as they needed to be done.

Now mostly governments are having enough inside information, which is helping them have control of Bitcoin. A few countries that are now well aware of bitcoin magic are bringing rules and regulations for helping, but many are still not ready to bring things to a level as they are doing this business by themselves for corrupt people or politicians.