Has Wall Street created paper Bitcoin?

[Free Market Capitalist]

I think so.

A while back, I started a thread about who might be part of this system:

Saylor has created a fiat system on top of Bitcoin

But I think this goes far beyond Strategy. Just as happened with gold and silver back then, Wall Street has been able to manipulate scarcity through futures, loans, swaps, or perpetual contracts. I've mentioned this theory in passing in a few threads, but I think it deserves its own thread. Otherwise, it's hard to explain why the last few years have been by far the worst in terms of returns. In a market where the only way to trade was to buy or sell Bitcoin for cash, without any derivatives involved, I think the price would have gone much higher in 2025 and for much of this year.

What do you think?

[OcTradism]

They are creating kind of derivative products for investors who don't mind about non custody and only want something easy, quick, and can do things for them without their own actions.

I see it as risky as how people believe and use Bitcoin wrapped tokens, there are many such wrapped tokens, as with a principle of "bitcoin is only bitcoin on Bitcoin blockchain", I can not trust products from Wall Street, and any Bitcoin Wrapped Tokens on any altcoin blockchain.

I only invest my money in bitcoin on Bitcoin blockchain, and things like Wall Street's paper Bitcoin, Wrapped Bitcoin tokens on alt chains are not in my consideration list. I never consider to have any of them in my portfolio, because I know they don't give my actual bitcoins, and I know it's very risky.

[Lucius]

This is one of the theories supported by some permanent WO members, because there should be no doubt that if Saylor is doing this, the greedy bastards from WS will sit idly by and miss the opportunity for profit. I think they realized at some point that Bitcoin wasn't something that would collapse and disappear, and they came up with various ways to make money on it, without caring at all why Bitcoin exists and what it actually represents.

As for the price, there is definitely a huge amount of room for manipulation, and as much as spot BTC ETFs have contributed to the price increase, they also have a share in why it is currently so low due to huge outflows.

By the way, Saylor is on very good terms with the T-dynasty, and if they are hanging out privately (there are photos) then it shouldn't be surprising that they are all milking Bitcoin together as long as there is an opportunity to do so.

[Alpha Marine]

I think there is  some truth in your theory, but we can't ignore the fact that Bitcoin is getting to that stage where the returns will not be as high as they used to.
There was a time when adding or removing 1500btc which is approximately worth $100 million, from the market would cause a lot of price movement. It can be up or down depending on which way the money went, but now, it's no longer like that. The volatility has reduced, and so have the returns.
For bitcoin to increase by 10% right now, it means about $130 billion (rough figure, not actual figure) needs to be added to it. That is a lot of money. It wasn't like this in the past.
The more the market cap of an asset increases, the slower its returns because it now requirs more money to get to a certain amounts.
There were times when adding $100 billion to Bitcoin m would push the price up by 20%-30%, but now, it's less than a 10% increase.

[Ambatman]

Exchanges have also been creating paper bitcoin before Wall Street did.
The world debt finance and they try to associate every asset or investment in a way they can have more than exist
Just like its done with Fiat.
Exchanges and Wall Street engage in rehypothecation
I'm sure Strategy does or will hence a proper proof of reserve like zkp
Even if we can't do much on derivatives.

I only invest my money in bitcoin on Bitcoin blockchain, and things like Wall Street's paper Bitcoin

Well paper bitcoin isn't necessarily a token of such it's more of bitcoin exposure
Without necessarily owning the actual bitcoin.
Like giving out 20BTC when you just have 5btc the other 15 is paper.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

None of us can verify or audit over the counter markets. It’s a possibility that exchanges and OTC markets are selling paper Bitcoin and running fractional reserves. For example, everything about Binance stinks over the last 18 months. I don’t know if we will ever really know but Bitcoin has performed quite poorly since ETCs were approved in comparison to its past.

[stompix]

Has Wall Street created paper Bitcoin?

Nope, it was Karpeles when he was running MtGox on coins he never had in the first place, so the coins in your account were nothing more than numbers in a script.
It's not Wall Street that created anything, it was simple demand from people with money, and making this whole thing like a conspiracy goes against one principle in your username.

Free market, right?
If there is demand for something and there is an offer, the two met, one can't exist without the other, if people want to invest in Pluto Unobtainium Space Mining Inc....well, free market.

Otherwise, it's hard to explain why the last few years have been by far the worst in terms of returns.

Or, or , or...hear me out!
Hundreds of thousands of users are taking profits out of the market and there is little coming in since investors are moving somewhere else!
Like it or not, without money there is no growth, and with more and more taking x10-x50 the sums they've put in (like me for example), the exponential growth can't happen anymore.
Please don't make me use XKCD