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Author Topic: Offline mining?  (Read 11970 times)
sadpandatech
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January 02, 2012, 06:57:01 PM
 #21

Was no-one else curious about how he would have access to 2 TH?

Do you really need to ask?

Look up the fucker's thread history, you will see his thread about "free" electricity

I'm not suprised, he got another "free" computational power some where....

Yeah.  Because, you know, I really want to attempt to squeeze out 2 T/hash using the free electricity I get from renting a room of a house that was built in the 1950's.

Got to 1 T/hash before my clothes started to melt into my skin.
 Shocked

tl;dr solution; set in place 1 computer running a bitcoind daemon in VM. On same computer a server running pool server on a LAN IP that is capable of pointing to daemon on dif IP. The VM will have it's own net access via cell phone usb, etc. So isolated from the hashing network.  Simply point your hashers at the LAN pool. viola, they are isolated from the net and you are left with only a VM bitcoind communicating out.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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January 02, 2012, 07:00:38 PM
 #22

Was no-one else curious about how he would have access to 2 TH?

Do you really need to ask?

Look up the fucker's thread history, you will see his thread about "free" electricity

I'm not suprised, he got another "free" computational power some where....

Yeah.  Because, you know, I really want to attempt to squeeze out 2 T/hash using the free electricity I get from renting a room of a house that was built in the 1950's.

Got to 1 T/hash before my clothes started to melt into my skin.
 Shocked

tl;dr solution; set in place 1 computer running a bitcoind daemon in VM. On same computer a server running pool server on a LAN IP that is capable of pointing to daemon on dif IP. The VM will have it's own net access via cell phone usb, etc. So isolated from the hashing network.  Simply point your hashers at the LAN pool. viola, they are isolated from the net and you are left with only a VM bitcoind communicating out.

This is beautiful.   Grin

I quite like the possibility of solving around 30 blocks per day.

sadpandatech
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January 02, 2012, 07:12:12 PM
 #23

Make sure your custom server rig has 2 network adaptors in it. As you will need one to bind to the VM and one for the server. It may even be ideal to run 3 net adapters and 2 pools to try and split some of that hash up. Depending on resource usage and handling. I am not real sure just how resource intensive poolserverj, for example, can be with so much processing going on.  And you will surely stress the net adapters with all of the getworks.  Might even have to go, 2 bitcoind's, 2-4 pools , with appropriate number of network cards. atleast those are cheap. ;p
If I think of anything else I will add it. ;p

cheers

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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January 02, 2012, 07:18:03 PM
 #24

Make sure your custom server rig has 2 network adaptors in it. As you will need one to bind to the VM and one for the server. It may even be ideal to run 3 net adapters and 2 pools to try and split some of that hash up. Depending on resource usage and handling. I am not real sure just how resource intensive poolserverj, for example, can be with so much processing going on.  And you will surely stress the net adapters with all of the getworks.  Might even have to go, 2 bitcoind's, 2-4 pools , with appropriate number of network cards. atleast those are cheap. ;p
If I think of anything else I will add it. ;p

cheers

If you needed to you could run a custom version of pool server designed to reduce LAN communication.  You could send one getwork to each machine w/ a 10 minute n-time-rolling.  Each local miner would hash the same block header and simply increment the time locally.  The pool server would simply issue a LP on each block change.  Using a larger difficulty for shares (since you don't care about share variance) could reduce the number of shares submitted by 90% or more. 

All together intra-LAN communication could be cut by at least 90%.  More is possible but the higher variance would prevent shares from being useful for monitoring on pool server.
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January 02, 2012, 07:20:22 PM
 #25

Make sure your custom server rig has 2 network adaptors in it. As you will need one to bind to the VM and one for the server. It may even be ideal to run 3 net adapters and 2 pools to try and split some of that hash up. Depending on resource usage and handling. I am not real sure just how resource intensive poolserverj, for example, can be with so much processing going on.  And you will surely stress the net adapters with all of the getworks.  Might even have to go, 2 bitcoind's, 2-4 pools , with appropriate number of network cards. atleast those are cheap. ;p
If I think of anything else I will add it. ;p

cheers

If you needed to you could run a custom version of pool server designed to reduce LAN communication.  You could send one getwork to each machine w/ a 10 minute n-time-rolling.  Each local miner would hash the same block header and simply increment the time locally.  The pool server would simply issue a LP on each block change.  Using a larger difficulty for shares (since you don't care about share variance) could reduce the number of shares submitted by 90% or more. 

All together intra-LAN communication could be cut by at least 90%.  More is possible but the higher variance would prevent shares from being useful for monitoring on pool server.
excellent points as always from you! =)  I do recall seeing some talk of such a feature in the mining software section. Do you recall if such a feature was already implemented into one of the pool server softwares?  *goes off to try and hunt it down*

cheers

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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January 02, 2012, 07:24:11 PM
 #26

Thank you both DeathAndTexas and sadpandatech.  If you think of anything more, I really would appreciate it.  On the off chance that what I'm thinking of might actually come to fruition, both of you will be compensated heftily.


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January 02, 2012, 07:53:02 PM
 #27

excellent points as always from you! =)  I do recall seeing some talk of such a feature in the mining software section. Do you recall if such a feature was already implemented into one of the pool server softwares?  *goes off to try and hunt it down*

IIRC PoolServerJ supports custom difficulty (difficulty >1 ) not sure if there is any upper limit.  PoolServerJ also support n-time-rolling but not sure if there is a max limit.  If anything the changes would be small.  To minimize LAN communication you would want to ensure PoolServerJ doesn't send updated work when new transactions are added and merkle tree changes. 

Essentially you would want
a) large difficulty (the difficulty reduces the amount of share traffic submitted).  2TH combined would find 456 shares per second.  A difficulty of 100 would make that ~5 shares found per second.

b) long n-time-rolling.  Not sure if there is a max limit or any bugs that would happen from  10 minut n-time-rolling period.  Likely just needs to be tested.

c) Ensure PoolServerJ only sends LP when block is detected on network.  Just need to check to make sure there are no "keep alive" code, updates for transaction pool changes, and "idle miner" detection code.
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January 02, 2012, 08:09:14 PM
 #28

Was no-one else curious about how he would have access to 2 TH?

Do you really need to ask?

Look up the fucker's thread history, you will see his thread about "free" electricity

I'm not suprised, he got another "free" computational power some where....

Yeah.  Because, you know, I really want to attempt to squeeze out 2 T/hash using the free electricity I get from renting a room of a house that was built in the 1950's.

Got to 1 T/hash before my clothes started to melt into my skin.

Where did you see me saying you have access to 2TH in your basement? Did god forget to put a brain in your skull? or is it your parents?

Its the definition of "free" that you dont understand. Loser


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January 02, 2012, 08:11:12 PM
 #29

aye, Poolservj has work caching, etc. Without using it I am guessing. But it appears it can be set to only send new works on block changes. It also forms the getwork request localy, freeing up resource use on the bitcoind itself.

for C it does have idle detection but I believe it is capable of being on or off.

Best way to find out is get a box setup with VM and run bitcoind/PSJ and break out the ol ethereal on it. Slap as many mining instances as you can pointing at it. You can run multiple miners on one GPU for example to help simulate multiple connections. Get a few hours run and observe your packet counts and system loads and multiply it up.



*takes his rabbies shot and offers Plastic.Elastic a hug*

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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January 02, 2012, 08:16:11 PM
 #30

DeathandTexas and Sadpandatech - I admit I have some research and consulting with others to do to understand the importance of your advice.  I need to construct a working model in my head of exactly what this will entail.  Thanks for the help! Smiley

Plastic.Elastic - What do you do to relax?  Electricity is "free" as defined by my lease.  I don't need your definition.

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January 02, 2012, 08:53:54 PM
 #31

DeathandTexas and Sadpandatech - I admit I have some research and consulting with others to do to understand the importance of your advice.  I need to construct a working model in my head of exactly what this will entail.  Thanks for the help! Smiley

Plastic.Elastic - What do you do to relax?  Electricity is "free" as defined by my lease.  I don't need your definition.

Is this 2TH/s computing also "free" in... -i dont know- your tuition fee?

Not only you're stupid, you're lack of morals .... a great combo of failure


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January 02, 2012, 08:55:54 PM
 #32

aye, Poolservj has work caching, etc. Without using it I am guessing. But it appears it can be set to only send new works on block changes. It also forms the getwork request localy, freeing up resource use on the bitcoind itself.

for C it does have idle detection but I believe it is capable of being on or off.

Best way to find out is get a box setup with VM and run bitcoind/PSJ and break out the ol ethereal on it. Slap as many mining instances as you can pointing at it. You can run multiple miners on one GPU for example to help simulate multiple connections. Get a few hours run and observe your packet counts and system loads and multiply it up.



*takes his rabbies shot and offers Plastic.Elastic a hug*

Helping him to steal isnt exactly how you should show your intelligence. If he must ask these questions he sure doesnt know jack and will be caught easily.

Tips gladly accepted: 1LPaxHPvpzN3FbaGBaZShov3EFafxJDG42
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January 02, 2012, 09:14:11 PM
 #33

aye, Poolservj has work caching, etc. Without using it I am guessing. But it appears it can be set to only send new works on block changes. It also forms the getwork request localy, freeing up resource use on the bitcoind itself.

for C it does have idle detection but I believe it is capable of being on or off.

Best way to find out is get a box setup with VM and run bitcoind/PSJ and break out the ol ethereal on it. Slap as many mining instances as you can pointing at it. You can run multiple miners on one GPU for example to help simulate multiple connections. Get a few hours run and observe your packet counts and system loads and multiply it up.



*takes his rabbies shot and offers Plastic.Elastic a hug*

Helping him to steal isnt exactly how you should show your intelligence. If he must ask these questions he sure doesnt know jack and will be caught easily.


Stop fabricating things when it's obvious that you have absolutely no clue as to what I'm planning.

You should watch your language and your accusations of me 'stealing.'   I don't steal anything. 

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January 02, 2012, 09:14:23 PM
 #34

*takes his rabbies shot and offers Plastic.Elastic a hug*

Helping him to steal isnt exactly how you should show your intelligence. If he must ask these questions he sure doesnt know jack and will be caught easily.

Although I have not devoted a whole lot of thought to 'how is this person accessing 2TH worth of computing power', it seems atleast somewhat 'legit'. I would sure hope he is not stealing anything. Some basic things that lead me to believe it are that he will need physical access for any of my suggestions. His concern of limiting the Internet exposure of the machines is more in line with needing to be able to ensure the security of them more so than to 'hide'. I mean, any network admin on the planet would notice the usage...

If he must ask, he may not be ready for such a project but 'being caught' implies doing something wrong to begin with. Otherwise such an ambitous project is good in excercise to learn from if nothing else.

Whether you are just being antagonistic with implying I am being helpful to show my intelligence, I do not know. But my IQ is really quite low as far as I can tell.

And if it is real, then in the grand scheme of things another ~2TH only goes to further strengthen the network as a whole. That being my main motivator beyond just being helpful, if only mildly helpful.

cheers

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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January 02, 2012, 09:20:47 PM
 #35

DeathandTexas and Sadpandatech - I admit I have some research and consulting with others to do to understand the importance of your advice.  I need to construct a working model in my head of exactly what this will entail.  Thanks for the help! Smiley

Plastic.Elastic - What do you do to relax?  Electricity is "free" as defined by my lease.  I don't need your definition.

Is this 2TH/s computing also "free" in... -i dont know- your tuition fee?

Not only you're stupid, you're lack of morals .... a great combo of failure



I never said the 2 TH/s is free.  But it's cheap enough that I could stand to make a few grand every day.  Me gaining access to these 2 TH/s would mean a priori approval by the entity[ies] controlling the 2 TH/s.

And, I believe the two fine gentlemen helping me may have identified some ways that will allow me to have my request approved.

It's called being sociable, forming good relationships, and establishing connections.  Try it sometime.  Like I said, if this eventually works, I will handsomely reward both of them for their help.  No guarantees it will, though.


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January 02, 2012, 09:24:26 PM
 #36

*takes his rabbies shot and offers Plastic.Elastic a hug*

Helping him to steal isnt exactly how you should show your intelligence. If he must ask these questions he sure doesnt know jack and will be caught easily.

Although I have not devoted a whole lot of thought to 'how is this person accessing 2TH worth of computing power', it seems atleast somewhat 'legit'. I would sure hope he is not stealing anything. Some basic things that lead me to believe it are that he will need physical access for any of my suggestions. His concern of limiting the Internet exposure of the machines is more in line with needing to be able to ensure the security of them more so than to 'hide'. I mean, any network admin on the planet would notice the usage...

If he must ask, he may not be ready for such a project but 'being caught' implies doing something wrong to begin with. Otherwise such an ambitous project is good in excercise to learn from if nothing else.

Whether you are just being antagonistic with implying I am being helpful to show my intelligence, I do not know. But my IQ is really quite low as far as I can tell.

And if it is real, then in the grand scheme of things another ~2TH only goes to further strengthen the network as a whole. That being my main motivator beyond just being helpful, if only mildly helpful.

cheers

Your assumption about ensuring the security of the machines is correct.  You could say I'm trying to hide the machines from others who might wish to steal.

And yes, I hope to learn a lot from this whether I succeed or fail.

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January 03, 2012, 06:36:01 AM
 #37

*takes his rabbies shot and offers Plastic.Elastic a hug*

Helping him to steal isnt exactly how you should show your intelligence. If he must ask these questions he sure doesnt know jack and will be caught easily.

Although I have not devoted a whole lot of thought to 'how is this person accessing 2TH worth of computing power', it seems atleast somewhat 'legit'. I would sure hope he is not stealing anything. Some basic things that lead me to believe it are that he will need physical access for any of my suggestions. His concern of limiting the Internet exposure of the machines is more in line with needing to be able to ensure the security of them more so than to 'hide'. I mean, any network admin on the planet would notice the usage...

If he must ask, he may not be ready for such a project but 'being caught' implies doing something wrong to begin with. Otherwise such an ambitous project is good in excercise to learn from if nothing else.

Whether you are just being antagonistic with implying I am being helpful to show my intelligence, I do not know. But my IQ is really quite low as far as I can tell.

And if it is real, then in the grand scheme of things another ~2TH only goes to further strengthen the network as a whole. That being my main motivator beyond just being helpful, if only mildly helpful.

cheers

Your assumption about ensuring the security of the machines is correct.  You could say I'm trying to hide the machines from others who might wish to steal.

And yes, I hope to learn a lot from this whether I succeed or fail.

Interesting.  Going to watch this thread.

By my estimation, 2 THash/sec is about 5000 moderately high end GPUs, or several times that number of GPUs if they are the sort that normally end up in supercomputers, and needs a large fraction of a megawatt of power (at least).  It is also larger than most pools.

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January 03, 2012, 06:51:08 AM
 #38

*takes his rabbies shot and offers Plastic.Elastic a hug*

Helping him to steal isnt exactly how you should show your intelligence. If he must ask these questions he sure doesnt know jack and will be caught easily.

Although I have not devoted a whole lot of thought to 'how is this person accessing 2TH worth of computing power', it seems atleast somewhat 'legit'. I would sure hope he is not stealing anything. Some basic things that lead me to believe it are that he will need physical access for any of my suggestions. His concern of limiting the Internet exposure of the machines is more in line with needing to be able to ensure the security of them more so than to 'hide'. I mean, any network admin on the planet would notice the usage...

If he must ask, he may not be ready for such a project but 'being caught' implies doing something wrong to begin with. Otherwise such an ambitous project is good in excercise to learn from if nothing else.

Whether you are just being antagonistic with implying I am being helpful to show my intelligence, I do not know. But my IQ is really quite low as far as I can tell.

And if it is real, then in the grand scheme of things another ~2TH only goes to further strengthen the network as a whole. That being my main motivator beyond just being helpful, if only mildly helpful.

cheers

Your assumption about ensuring the security of the machines is correct.  You could say I'm trying to hide the machines from others who might wish to steal.

And yes, I hope to learn a lot from this whether I succeed or fail.

Interesting.  Going to watch this thread.

By my estimation, 2 THash/sec is about 5000 moderately high end GPUs, or several times that number of GPUs if they are the sort that normally end up in supercomputers, and needs a large fraction of a megawatt of power (at least).  It is also larger than most pools.

Yes.  I am not sure of the exact computational power of the machines I am interested in using.  It actually may be a very poor estimation because I am guessing based on petaflop output which, to my knowledge, is more or less irrational.

Regardless, it's a shit-ton of power.

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January 03, 2012, 09:37:15 PM
 #39


Yes.  I am not sure of the exact computational power of the machines I am interested in using.  It actually may be a very poor estimation because I am guessing based on petaflop output which, to my knowledge, is more or less irrational.

Regardless, it's a shit-ton of power.

FLOPs are floating point operations. If you can get access to a supercomputer thats any good at flops, it will almost certainly stink when it comes to sha256 hashing (integer). A typical TOP500 supercomputer may have trouble delivering higher hashrates than your typical 3x dual GPU mining rig.

Okay slight exaggeration perhaps, but not much; the top 250 supercomputer uses 12K xeon cores, which would roughly produce 12GH/s. Thats still only as good as ~6 good mining rigs.

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January 03, 2012, 09:41:43 PM
 #40


Yes.  I am not sure of the exact computational power of the machines I am interested in using.  It actually may be a very poor estimation because I am guessing based on petaflop output which, to my knowledge, is more or less irrational.

Regardless, it's a shit-ton of power.

FLOPs are floating point operations. If you can get access to a supercomputer thats any good at flops, it will almost certainly stink when it comes to sha256 hashing (integer). A typical TOP500 supercomputer may have trouble delivering higher hashrates than your typical 3x dual GPU mining rig

From what I was told, the machines I am interested in using are often used for sha256 hashing.

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