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Author Topic: The Energy and Enthusiasm is Dying. Bitcoiners are Growing Tired. ZZZZzzzzz....  (Read 6107 times)
BittBurger
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April 09, 2014, 04:42:33 PM
 #41


I'm not a skeptic, I'm hopeful. I've invested quite a bit in mining equipment and still continue to mind this day… It just seems as if it's such an uphill battle, that never ends. Now governments getting involved, well the list goes on and on...

This mentality is where the term "weak hands" comes from.

As I recommend to everyone who views Bitcoin with such a tiny hyperfocus, please download PodCruncher app to your phone and subscribe to Lets Talk Bitcoin podcast.
Make an effort to listen to the newest episodes every day.   While you make breakfast, while you drive places, etc.  
Especiallly the official podcast within it by the actual name:  LTB / Lets Talk Bitcoin.

Coinsider This is another good one.

You will start to gain an awareness of what is going on in the industry.  The vastness of the adoption and growth going on.
Speakers from the conferences.  Your hyperfocus on the minutia and short term view of everything will hopefully start to dissolve.
Then confidence in long term growth will happen.
I'll meet you there.

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April 09, 2014, 05:11:48 PM
 #42

"The Energy and Enthusiasm is Dying. Bitcoiners are Growing Tired. ZZZZzzzzz...."

Is the current pool of bitcoiners the only pool of bitcoiners?  This market is largely untapped.

we got Goxxed and had some other issues, courtesy of regulators, but some regulation was to be expected.

China is jacking things around again and that's not helping price. 

We are also waiting on more established trading platforms, as a lot of people, myself included, wouldn't trade on the current ones on a dare.

The infrastructure is being built out for that and a lot more, although that takes time.  These parties will be motivated to market their product, enhancing awareness and growing the marketplace.  Once these trading platforms launch and larger funds/Wall St. can invest I think things will pop again, as all of this activity on Gox and China takes it's inevitable place in the rearview mirror.

It's been pretty bad for months, but that WILL change.  Price is beaten down as a result of this negativity, but once things stabilize and people can invest with the confidence they won't get Goxxed, that will change too.

Tired?  good.  drive that price down so I can buy more of this before it blows up again, which it will.




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April 09, 2014, 05:15:25 PM
 #43

Quote
ok did you guys forget bitcoin was suppose to be a currency not an investment, stop treating it like that and think of it as a way to pay for things.  

I am new around here. That the general consensus of bitcoin being an investment first, and currency a distant second, is something that has really surprised, shocked me. It seems as if bitcoin used as a currency is a very minor part of bitcoin.
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April 09, 2014, 05:18:22 PM
 #44

While everyone is growing tired and ZZZZzz-ing, it give us Bitcoiners a great buying opportunity.

If you believe in it, no need to quit now.  Let it grow out of these growing pains.

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April 09, 2014, 05:23:14 PM
 #45

I am finding the peace and quiet surrounding bitcoin pleasant at the moment. 

I am currently working on a bitcoin project, and I know a few others that recently launched a bitcoin start-up company (Vancouver / San Fran).  I think we'd all appreciate several months of "peace" so that we can get some work done on our products and services so that we are ready should the hype pick-up again. 

Cant agree more ...entrepreneurs need this peace that traders and investors wont understand Wink

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April 09, 2014, 05:33:12 PM
 #46

Quote
ok did you guys forget bitcoin was suppose to be a currency not an investment, stop treating it like that and think of it as a way to pay for things.  

I am new around here. That the general consensus of bitcoin being an investment first, and currency a distant second, is something that has really surprised, shocked me. It seems as if bitcoin used as a currency is a very minor part of bitcoin.

Not really a consensus, although it may be a prevailing attitude.  People see bitcoin as an investment with great potential BECAUSE they believe it may see wide adoption as a currency, yet we tend to forget that fact.

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April 09, 2014, 05:33:21 PM
 #47

Quote
ok did you guys forget bitcoin was suppose to be a currency not an investment, stop treating it like that and think of it as a way to pay for things.  

I am new around here. That the general consensus of bitcoin being an investment first, and currency a distant second, is something that has really surprised, shocked me. It seems as if bitcoin used as a currency is a very minor part of bitcoin.

Well, one of the novel features of the Bitcoin Economy is that it is a deflating store of value.

Everyone here knows that a maximum of 21 million bitcoins will ever be mined. That changes how one goes about spending bitcoin. Should I replace my old car now with a new car for 60 bitcoins, or should a postpone the purchase two years and buy the same sort of new car for 0.6 bitcoins? Easy decision - to postpone the purchase and become a bitcoin hoarder in the meantime.

Deflation in the Bitcoin Economy is virtuous in that it encourages spending on what one really, really needs. No easy credit is available in the Bitcoin Economy. Why should someone loan me bitcoin for any long term, knowing that it is difficult to pay back the same amount of coin.

As many have pointed out, and what I do myself as a bitcoin investor, is to spend coin daily on essentials and replenish those working funds from fiat - leaving my bitcoin hoard alone except for periodic sales at bubble peaks. A Metcalfe Law relationship has been discovered that links the quantity of bitcoin transactions with the bitcoin price. Therefore, it is advantageous for a bitcoin hoarder to create meaningful spending and receipt transactions that move the Bitcoin Economy forward.

Bitcoin is both an efficient means of payment, and a deflating store of value.
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April 09, 2014, 05:36:34 PM
 #48

Quote
ok did you guys forget bitcoin was suppose to be a currency not an investment, stop treating it like that and think of it as a way to pay for things.  

I am new around here. That the general consensus of bitcoin being an investment first, and currency a distant second, is something that has really surprised, shocked me. It seems as if bitcoin used as a currency is a very minor part of bitcoin.

Well, one of the novel features of the Bitcoin Economy is that it is a deflating store of value.

Everyone here knows that a maximum of 21 million bitcoins will ever be mined. That changes how one goes about spending bitcoin. Should I replace my old car now with a new car for 60 bitcoins, or should a postpone the purchase two years and buy the same sort of new car for 0.6 bitcoins? Easy decision - to postpone the purchase and become a bitcoin hoarder in the meantime.

Deflation in the Bitcoin Economy is virtuous in that it encourages spending on what one really, really needs. No easy credit is available in the Bitcoin Economy. Why should someone loan me bitcoin for any long term, knowing that it is difficult to pay back the same amount of coin.

As many have pointed out, and what I do myself as a bitcoin investor, is to spend coin daily on essentials and replenish those working funds from fiat - leaving my bitcoin hoard alone except for periodic sales at bubble peaks. A Metcalfe Law relationship has been discovered that links the quantity of bitcoin transactions with the bitcoin price. Therefore is is advantagous for a bitcoin hoarder to create meaningful spending and receipt transactions that move the Bitcoin Economy forward.

Bitcoin is both an efficient means of payment, and a deflating store of value.

This is great.  I too am looking to spend small amounts of coins instead of only hoarding.  We all need to adopt this attitude.  It is hypocritical to expect bitcoin adoption while not adopting it ourselves.

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April 09, 2014, 05:44:56 PM
Last edit: April 09, 2014, 05:56:18 PM by matt4054
 #49

Despite the many large investors still hedging on Bitcoin taking over the world, and the spin they push through various media outlets and sites like Coindesk, the truth is that the general Bitcoin community is growing tired.

Ah, the community, right... but I have a doubt right now, about the meaning of 'community':

Are you talking about those trying to turn the potential of Bitcoin into a reality?

Or a you talking about those who thought they were just getting into a make-money-fast aka get-rich-quick bubble/tulip/Ponzi/whatever?

Tired of falling prices.

Besides speculation (and bubbles), it's an increase of interest for Bitcoin that will LEAD to an increase of its price. NOT the other way round. Has there been any increase of interest for Bitcoin (from real, everyday users) since the prices started declining? My answer is no.

Tired of scandals like Mt. Gox.

I thought Bitcoin, as a protocol, was designed as a decentralized system that did not rely on trust.

Tired of rigs they invested in not paying off like they hoped. Tired of maintaining those rigs. Summer on its way. AC bills will rise. Price now trading flat, or in my opinion barely holding on to current levels. Scam after scam with companies that promise mining equipment but instead use your money to develop and build the technology only to use it for months and months, earning the BTC for themselves and skyrocketing the difficulty.

Supply and demand. The current state of interest for Bitcoin from the 2+ billion internet users worldwide is still very limited, and probably somewhat shrinking. We have now reached the limit of profitability, and there is no one willing to subsidise over 50,000 TH/s any further.

Basically, nothing wrong is here. Being able to 1) buy a machine, 2) plug it in and 3) profit without doing anything is an anomaly, a privilege.

Crap coin after crap coin which honestly just makes the whole industry look like a joke. Potcoin. Dogecoin. It makes the technology look like a circus for morons yet more coins come out every day and are backed by exchanges that represent the industry. Could you imagine if the NASDAQ was filled with goofy company names like that?

Crypto-currencies live in an unregulated world where everyone is free to create and launch the shitcoin of their choice. Of course, most if not all of these shitcoins are despicable, obviously 99% are just premine / IPO / fast halving scams, driven by greed. At best, they bring nothing really innovative compared to the original i.e. Bitcoin

But look at what's happening now: shitcoins are failing! This is GOOD! This is a failed reality check and natural return to sanity.

Posts are slowing on the boards. Hashrate is spread so thin across so many coins. And most coins are so thinly traded, even with the bigger ones you'd have a damn hard time liquidating a large value of currency if you had it, the prices are held up by thin buys, and not enough buyers to really dump huge amounts.

Yes, I wish they would fail faster, skipping the pitiful phase of agony where they can be 51'ed with less than $1000, i.e. probably close to what their market cap will be by then Tongue

I hope I'm wrong.

Oh no, I think you are perfectly right.

Let me tell you something: maybe we will lose 90% of the members on the forum, maybe we will see prices declining by 90% to $50 like early last year (though I don't think so, but maybe), maybe we'll see 90% of the shitcoins at the graveyard (and I'd be glad to see them here).

If that's what it takes to rebuild the community with real developers (in the broad sense), then so be it.

Greed is not really the problem here. The problem is short sight and misplaced ego. I consider myself greedy, but I know that I won't get any money before actually creating value, adding something to the system, making my contribution worthwhile. THEN, and ONLY THEN, I will expect some ROI.
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April 09, 2014, 05:55:53 PM
 #50


I'm not a skeptic, I'm hopeful. I've invested quite a bit in mining equipment and still continue to mind this day… It just seems as if it's such an uphill battle, that never ends. Now governments getting involved, well the list goes on and on...

This mentality is where the term "weak hands" comes from.

Yup, just like the guy that bought a pizza for 1000 BTC prob thought he was lucky to get that deal at the time.  Every sudden peak in the charts of Bitcoins life so far has been followed by a fall, then a long lull, slow buildup to then another 10x higher peak.  That's not to say this behaviour is guaranteed forever and we're going to see $1million Bitcoin valuation (something I don't believe in), but I really wouldn't worry about the current price, at all.

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April 09, 2014, 07:36:21 PM
 #51

The crazy ride has ended (possibly... Grin), now the long trek begins.

and some people will die along this journey, but those that walk onwards will have interesting times and many tales to tell... and one day... We'll all reach the promised land!

HODLing for the longest time. Skippin fast right around the moon. On a rocketship straight to mars.
Up, up and away with my beautiful, my beautiful Bitcoin~
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April 09, 2014, 07:38:33 PM
 #52

Message to OP: It's time to buy. Desperation level is at its peak, price can't go below 350$. Since we all know Bitcoin is not what it should become, another bubble is around the corner. And this time infrastructure is even better. I see queues on the Bitcoin ATM's soon, in the middle of a next bubble. Somehow I just know I'm right about this.

Token Bubbles – Transforming the ICO Rating and Analysis Space.
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April 09, 2014, 07:46:27 PM
 #53

Don't think for a second that a truly innovative technology, one that has so much potential, can fail miserably.

Betamax.

QR Codes.

DIVX

3G

Google TV

Segways

All of these products or technologies showed amazing promise, but for some reason or another were either stepped over by better technologies (or worse as in the case with VHS/Betamax) or with more aggressive marketing, or simply didn't catch on like the creators thought they would.

1) Betamax was not that much better as Bitcoin is better than fiat.
2) QR codes? - huge success
3) DIVX - huge success
4) 3G - huge success
5) Google TV (have not much info about it, but sounds like nothing too revolutionary for me)
6) Segway - nothing too revolutionary too.

What we have with Bitcoin here is huge thing, and in a sense it's the greatest invention of our time - possible even greater than Internet itself.

Another bubble is coming... Maybe several bubbles, until thing stabilizes and Bitcoin becomes like 80% of Internet-based payments.

Token Bubbles – Transforming the ICO Rating and Analysis Space.
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April 09, 2014, 10:51:08 PM
 #54

. . . I see queues on the Bitcoin ATM's soon, in the middle of a next bubble. Somehow I just know I'm right about this.

I believe that you are right about queues at the Bitcoin ATM. We have three in Austin and when I make my almost daily purchase of some fractional coin - there is no one else there.

Initial enrollment the Robocoin ATM system took me 5 minutes, and that process will create the queues for new users who have no idea how to use one. Routine purchases I have timed and they take 70-90 seconds - which includes stuffing in a few bills. By time I arrive back home, the coin has been confirmed into my hot wallet.
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April 09, 2014, 10:59:17 PM
 #55

This has ALWAYS happened after the hype starts dying down, shit starts blowing up, panic lovers leave bitcoin, media quiets down... It stays like this for quite sometime until the next world crisis happens or the next country "discovers" Bitcoin ... then the hype train starts back up, people get excited, its all over the media, prices rise.

Its all part of the growing process for something as new and potential to be a game changer as Bitcoin.
In fact, during the period of Bitcoin seeming "all but dead" ... is the time for "smart buying" =)


The only time it will permanently stay down if Bitcoin is compromised at the core in a way that effectively breaks its usefulness & security and/or all major world governments ban the fuck outta it.
Also theres one other case, which is the entire population of the world deems Bitcoin entirely useless(hence having no more value).

People should get used to it.

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April 09, 2014, 11:09:26 PM
 #56

I think one of the reasons for the lack of enthusiasm might be the proliferance of the altcoins. New coins are being created at a rate of two dozen per day. All of them leaching like a parasite on Bitcoin.

Out in the real world many people think "Bitcoin went bankrupt."
MtGox did more damage to BTC than all the alt coins combined.

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April 09, 2014, 11:14:09 PM
 #57

Out in the real world many people think "Bitcoin went bankrupt."
MtGox did more damage to BTC than all the alt coins combined.

This is so true.

Gox killed the big bubble back in 2011. Gox had DDoS issues in the collapse of the April 2013 bubble, and then went insolvent in the collapse of the November 2013 bubble. Now that Gox is gone, there will be other factors to explain future bubble collapses.
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April 09, 2014, 11:47:17 PM
 #58

Bitcoin is both an efficient means of payment, and a deflating store of value.

While it is a potentially efficient means of payment - its lack of general acceptance makes it terribly ineffective in most places in reality. It is restricted to a tiny niche in the hughe system of global payment options.
But that's IMHO not the main point.

Bitcoin is not a store of value by any means. It is a new and highly experimental (Beta) technology trend with completely unknown origins and an even more unknown future. It qualifies for absolutely none of the critical requirements for being a store of value. It's rather a permanently endangered species relying on dozens of hightech requirement chains, of which breaking only a single one would make it utterly useless until workarounds are put in place.
Being digital in nature, I'd go as far as to say it is everything but a store of value.

That shall not prevent anyone to convert value into it, but alot have done and already paid the price for this mistake (outside speculatory gains for early adopters or successful traders). Please never confuse a virtual currency with the term "store of value", both are absolutely contradictory in nature. Hard assets relying on absolutely nothing and having no counterparty risk are a store of value. Bits & Bytes connected to the internet never were and never will be, even if they survive for extended periods of time due to heavy protection and intensive caretaking.

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April 10, 2014, 12:04:34 AM
 #59

....there will be other factors to explain future bubble collapses.

It's always a slippery slope once the Bull market goes up too fast.
I wonder if BTC will ever see a rational Bull cycle (i.e. ~25% per year gains for a few straight years)

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April 10, 2014, 12:18:25 AM
 #60

As long as there is a need for invisible oversea assets that can not be confiscated, it will always attract some interest

The biggest demand comes from its anti-inflation and anti-confiscation character

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