bryant.coleman (OP)
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April 09, 2014, 07:25:23 AM |
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26949794Spanish MPs have voted overwhelmingly to reject a request by the Catalan authorities to hold a referendum on independence on 9 November. After seven hours of debate, 299 MPs voted against the motion, with 47 votes in favour and one abstention. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcambodiamonster.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2Fcatalonia-is-not-spain.jpg&t=665&c=hSU-3f5XSNxJ7Q) ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.bebo.com%2F011%2F5%2Flarge%2F2007%2F08%2F23%2F15%2F4451733413a5358490192l.jpg&t=665&c=bR9guJUCqj8ilA)
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Kiki112
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April 09, 2014, 07:47:19 AM |
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doesn't matter what they think, only matters what people in Catalonia think
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bryant.coleman (OP)
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April 09, 2014, 08:18:00 AM |
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doesn't matter what they think, only matters what people in Catalonia think
Well.. according to the opinion polls, the vats majority of the Catalonians want independence. But the Spanish politicians are saying that they will intervene militarily to prevent that.
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Balthazar
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April 09, 2014, 08:24:05 AM |
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They need to start formation of self-defence forces, like people of the Republic of Crimea did. Then ignore central government and perform a referendum without their permission...
P.S. Seizure of local administrative institutions may be helpful too.
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Nemo1024
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April 09, 2014, 08:27:47 AM |
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NATO should intervene and bomb Madrid to free Catalonia... Oh, wait. NATO already have a military base in Spain. Nothing to do there. Democracy and self-determination is already achieved. Move along.
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“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.” “We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.” “It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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bryant.coleman (OP)
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April 09, 2014, 08:32:47 AM |
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NATO should intervene and bomb Madrid to free Catalonia Did you mistook Madrid for Belgrade? (And Catalonia for Kosovo? ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) )
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zolace
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April 09, 2014, 08:35:09 AM |
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In a world that as communicated and with a common market and currency like that of Europe, independence tends to be relative and easy to sustain even for very small units like Catalonia. If anything I expect many more such movements.
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EasySam
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April 09, 2014, 01:11:26 PM |
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I wonder if Catalonia really need it.
Also how many people leaving there really want it.
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Nemo1024
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April 09, 2014, 01:31:55 PM |
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I wonder if Catalonia really need it.
Also how many people leaving there really want it.
That's what a referendum would have found out. Yet, the central government is scared of it, so their fears that the region that feeds the whole Spain will secede must be justified.
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“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.” “We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.” “It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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bryant.coleman (OP)
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April 09, 2014, 02:16:20 PM |
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I wonder if Catalonia really need it. Opinions polls have found huge support for independence there. There is a lot of resentment that Catalonia, one of the most tax paying regions of Spain is funding the other regions in the South.
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Kiki112
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April 09, 2014, 08:16:19 PM |
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I wonder if Catalonia really need it. Opinions polls have found huge support for independence there. There is a lot of resentment that Catalonia, one of the most tax paying regions of Spain is funding the other regions in the South. but how will we watch the El Clasico ever again? ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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countryfree
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April 09, 2014, 11:57:06 PM |
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I'm going to Spain quite often, and all this is laughable. Italy had the same problem when the Northern League wanted to break up from the South. In both cases, this is highly opportunistic. Catalonia is doing a bit better than the other Spanish regions at this time but that wasn't true 100 years ago, and that may not last. We shall also remember that 2 years ago, Catalonia was begging Madrid for refinancing. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9290206/Catalonia-calls-for-help-from-central-government-to-pay-debts.html
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I used to be a citizen and a taxpayer. Those days are long gone.
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bryant.coleman (OP)
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April 10, 2014, 02:18:50 AM |
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We shall also remember that 2 years ago, Catalonia was begging Madrid for refinancing. That depends on which media you want to rely on. Catalonia, with less than 20% of the Spanish population contributes to more than 40% of its tax revenue. So two years ago, when the province faced a revenue crunch, they asked the Madrid to give them a part of the tax revenues, which were extracted from the province.
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Mike Christ
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April 10, 2014, 07:58:44 AM |
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Isn't this contradictory? If you have to ask for independence, you're really not serious about independence. To be independent is to be sovereign; to ask permission to be independent implies you're submitting to a higher authority. So of course they voted no; they were stating the obvious .
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bryant.coleman (OP)
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April 10, 2014, 08:02:31 AM |
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To be independent is to be sovereign; to ask permission to be independent implies you're submitting to a higher authority.
No one asked for the permission. There is a planned referendum on November this year, so see whether the people want to be independent or not. On the other hand, Spain is saying that it will not allow Catalonia to hold the referendum.
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Balthazar
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April 10, 2014, 08:08:27 AM |
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Next step is deny presidential or parliamentary elections. ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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Kiki112
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April 10, 2014, 08:57:41 AM |
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To be independent is to be sovereign; to ask permission to be independent implies you're submitting to a higher authority.
No one asked for the permission. There is a planned referendum on November this year, so see whether the people want to be independent or not. On the other hand, Spain is saying that it will not allow Catalonia to hold the referendum. wow, this will escalate the world is getting involved in confilcts more and more by each day, this Crimea thing might be a trigger for all other nations to think, hey, we can do that too and that's exactly what they need to do, stop the oppression ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Balthazar
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April 10, 2014, 09:33:05 AM |
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By the way, draft constitution of Crimea was put up for discussion yesterday ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Nemo1024
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April 10, 2014, 09:53:22 AM |
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...this Crimea thing might be a trigger for all other nations to think, hey, we can do that too and that's exactly what they need to do, stop the oppression ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Technically, it started with NATO's intervention in Kosovo. Back then Russia was telling NATO that they are setting up a dangerous precedent for separatism. ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Later this year, there'll be a referendum for independence of Scotland, which UK acknowledges, so there is a good chance will see one more state emerge this year.
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“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.” “We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.” “It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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bryant.coleman (OP)
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April 10, 2014, 11:13:09 AM |
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Technically, it started with NATO's intervention in Kosovo. Back then Russia was telling NATO that they are setting up a dangerous precedent for separatism. ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Exactly. Kosovo was historical Serbian homeland which was snatched away by Bill & Hillary Clinton, and given to the organized Shqiptar criminals. You reap what you sow.
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