Bitcoin Forum
November 23, 2017, 05:36:45 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: how to avoid fees on small transactions.  (Read 1476 times)
ehmdjii
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 351


View Profile
January 02, 2012, 04:40:34 PM
 #1

hello,
how can i tell the bitcoin client it should not include a fee, even if i send very small amounts (0.0001) which are actually less than the fee itself.

i dont care how soon the transaction is included in a block.

thanks!

BTC: 1LsD5HpnX1Kfyti7CnHiVB1rjUEXGqmR2H
LTC: LQbpdMZmYyJa9bJG6NweBNxkSTfgZorkrG
1511458605
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511458605

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511458605
Reply with quote  #2

1511458605
Report to moderator
Join ICO Now Coinlancer is Disrupting the Freelance marketplace!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1511458605
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511458605

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511458605
Reply with quote  #2

1511458605
Report to moderator
1511458605
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511458605

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511458605
Reply with quote  #2

1511458605
Report to moderator
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


Gerald Davis


View Profile
January 02, 2012, 04:50:26 PM
 #2

You can't.  Well you can hack the client to make it ignore the small transaction fee but most miners will exclude those transactions and anyone running "valid" clients will reject (not forward)  those transactions also.

The fee on small transactions it to prevent an attack called dust spam.  Imagine if small transactions were free.  The average transaction is about 0.5KB.  You could send 1 satoshi per transaction and take up 0.5 KB.  You could construct a miner which generates trillions of transactions per day.  This would result in GB per week of block chain bloat.  You could create terrabytes of permanent spam at a cost of a single BTC.   Not only will  it bloat the network it will cripple clients you spam (check litecoin thread in alt currency forum) as the client tries to compute best coins to send from millions of tiny transactions.

The fee on small transactions (less than 0.01 BTC) is a defense mechanism.  It isn't going away.  Without that rule malicious entities could cripple the network w/ an utter trivial amount of effort.
nmat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 602


View Profile
January 02, 2012, 05:01:23 PM
 #3

The easiest way to do this is probably through an online wallet. Bitcoin exchanges usually let you send bitcoins without paying fees.
finway
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714


View Profile
January 03, 2012, 02:33:57 AM
 #4

Keep them in one output and keep them for a longtime, maybe you got a chance to send it with no fee.

prgiorgio
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 34


View Profile
January 05, 2012, 11:06:45 AM
 #5


That means that to send a 0,05 BTC i need a maturation of 2592 confirmations/ 150conf/day  = 18 DAYS

To send a 0,1 about 9 DAYS
To send a 0,5 about 2 days
To send 1 BTC about 0,9 days
To send 10+ BTC, almost immediately.
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


Gerald Davis


View Profile
January 05, 2012, 12:40:57 PM
 #6


That means that to send a 0,05 BTC i need a maturation of 2592 confirmations/ 150conf/day  = 18 DAYS

To send a 0,1 about 9 DAYS
To send a 0,5 about 2 days
To send 1 BTC about 0,9 days
To send 10+ BTC, almost immediately.

Technically the amount your sending doesn't matter it is the amount you are sending FROM.

So if you receive 0.1 BTC you need to wait 9 days to use it.
If you receive 0.5 BTC you need to wait 2 days to use it.
If you receive 1 BTC you need to wait about 0,9 days
If you receive 10+ BTC, you can send them right away.

If you send an amount from two addresses as the input then the "bitcoin days" from each input combine to meet the "free" threshold.

Also note there is ALWAYS a fee for very small transactions (<0.01 BTC) to avoid "dust spam" attack.  An infinite amount of time won't eliminate that fee.
SimonL
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 114


View Profile
January 15, 2012, 10:47:36 AM
 #7

I hear someone has released a hacked client, but the downside is most miners will ignore tiny transactions because there is no financial incentive to include it in the block. Whats worse is if your transaction never gets verified you could stand to lose your coins. Penny spamming as I've also heard it called is a more primitive version of potentially ddos-ing the bitcoin network, hence why miners will be more likely to ignore the transaction. Fees are healthy for the network, and the sender, doing otherwise is in no-one's interests.
jake262144
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


View Profile
January 15, 2012, 10:55:44 AM
 #8

I hear someone has released a hacked client...
I'd hardly call it hacked. Download the source code, change the portion responsible for tx fees, compile and viola!
Not much actual hacking involved.
SimonL
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 114


View Profile
January 15, 2012, 12:17:49 PM
 #9

I hear someone has released a hacked client...
I'd hardly call it hacked. Download the source code, change the portion responsible for tx fees, compile and viola!
Not much actual hacking involved.

Admittedly hacking might be too strong a word to describe the editing of one line of source code. Maybe we could just say his hand spasmed while he sneezed and mashed the keyboard, and viola, no tx fee bitcoin was born.  Cheesy
jago25_98
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 892


Crypto Geek


View Profile
January 15, 2012, 01:11:03 PM
 #10

i hope the fees can scale according to btv value and decimal point placing...

Crypto supporter!
Anillos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462


View Profile
January 15, 2012, 07:37:36 PM
 #11

The problem is that the official client doesn't allow to join two or more transactions like Daily bitcoins.

Aquí puedes conseguir pequeños ahorros sin mucho esfuerzo: http://www.bitvisitor.com/?ref=1PWNAGEZ3fSM8QevUavdd2iZ9F5jkp1QHZ
Consigue algo más viendo vídeos o haciendo pequeñas tareas en Bitcoinget.com: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178692.msg2509190#msg2509190
¿necesitas un dibujo vectorial, un esquema, un diagrama...? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183268.0
ehmdjii
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 351


View Profile
February 12, 2012, 01:42:06 PM
 #12

The problem is that the official client doesn't allow to join two or more transactions like Daily bitcoins.
then how do daily bitcoins do it? do they have a modified client?

BTC: 1LsD5HpnX1Kfyti7CnHiVB1rjUEXGqmR2H
LTC: LQbpdMZmYyJa9bJG6NweBNxkSTfgZorkrG
bulanula
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile
February 12, 2012, 01:48:34 PM
 #13

What stops me from mining my own blocks with lots of 0.00000001 transactions in them to spam the blockchain ?

Thanks !
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


Gerald Davis


View Profile
February 12, 2012, 02:41:16 PM
 #14

What stops me from mining my own blocks with lots of 0.00000001 transactions in them to spam the blockchain ?

Thanks !

Hashing power and block size limit.

Hashing power costs time & money so does the spam fee.   Both methods ensure their is a significant cost to the attacker.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!