What advantage does a consumer have for using bitcoin vs fiat?

[skooter]

Remember the Target credit card data hack?

Consumers aren't giving their payment info (credit card numbers) when paying with bitcoin, so it's impossible for any new charges to pop up after payment has been made.

Not really a benefit. As a consumer you're not responsible for fraudulent charges on your credit card.

That's the theory, the reality is that it is a major pain, a huge waste of your time, and sometimes expensive to deal with any kind of identity theft.

The other benefit is some degree of discounting that is likely at some point (maybe not right away).

Also, this assumes you even have credit card, or a bank account, and a lot of people don't.

The benefits are probably bigger and faster in less developed countries that both lack a well-functioning financial system and also have a greater dependence on remittence. There may be a leapfrog effect similar to how places without landlines adopted cell phones much faster than cell phones are replacing land lines elsewhere, a slow process that is still ongoing and will likely continue for another decade or two at least.

Only poor people don't have credit cards and bank accounts.

I could give a fuck about poor people and poor countries.

[LordMo]

I thought using cash was a lot more anonymous than using bitcoin. All Bitcoin transactions are logged and can be potentially traced?

[bryant.coleman]

1. Ease of transporting the money
2. Ease of storage
3. Anonymity.

[amspir]

I thought using cash was a lot more anonymous than using bitcoin. All Bitcoin transactions are logged and can be potentially traced?

Cash has unique serial numbers and can be potentially marked in other ways.  You would have to use metal coins to be truly anonymous.

[jonald_fyookball]

Remember the Target credit card data hack?

Consumers aren't giving their payment info (credit card numbers) when paying with bitcoin, so it's impossible for any new charges to pop up after payment has been made.

Not really a benefit. As a consumer you're not responsible for fraudulent charges on your credit card.

tell that to a guy trying to impress a girl at a romantic restaurant, trying to pay for the lobster and champagne and then being told by a smirking waiter that the card has been declined.... purely because a thief has maxed out his card.

other examples:
thief uses your credit card details to get a hire car, then kidnaps or runs someone down. you get a knock at the door by the cops and interrogated for hours trying to get the cops to believe that you were not the driver, where all information shows you were.

no for some less exadurated scenario's of why bitcoin is better:
1) your sex life is getting boring with your wife, but you wont cheat on her, instead you think that porn will solve the issue, you are worried that she will see the card statement, so you use bitcoin instead
2) you hate having to type in 16 digit credit card number, expiry date, and the 3 digit code on the signature strip. instead you want to just hold your camera phone up to your screen. press only 2 buttons, and get on with your day.
3) you have been the victim of card cloning/ ID theft / pickpockets. and you are tired of having to cancel your cards, and wait days for replacements.
4) your shop buys and sells gold but you start to think that with all the security window shutters at your shopfront, the time to lock up the valuable pieces on display, paying for security vans to take your days 'take' of fiat to the bank, along with the security camera's, alarms, safe's needed and all the building rental and retail costs. you start looking at a cheaper way to buy and sell rare items of value. hmm bitcoins are rare, and it can be traded in your underwear at home.
5)standing at starbucks you wait in queue to have your order taken. you tell them what you want then get your debit card out push it into their machine, type in your pin code and take a seat to wait for your drink. with bitcoin you can take your seat, use an app to make an order and pay for it,... without queuing!

number 5 is an example of the future. along with many others that are:
A) reading a tourist magazine, you see a QRcode that links to their website. you reserve your plane ticket on the website using the phone and press the pay with bitcoin, the price and destination public key ato-fills your phones bitcoin app, and you press send. (no need to type the 16 digits of credit card number, expiry, etc)
B) in the future imagine microsoft office PRODUCT KEY is actually a public key. to buy microsoft office (legitimately) to use after the time trial, you pay bitcoins into their PRODUCT/public key. the software checks blockchain.info and validates you have used a genuine paid for key
C) facebook/zynga get rid of their facebook credits, gets rid of the card processing facility and only show "50 more lives for 0.001btc" and a QR code.

remember bitcoin is in its infansy, many more future examples will come to mind. so think of it as a toddler, still learning to walk. and not an old guy dragging its feet

I have multiple credit cards, the odds all 3 of them are going to have an issue is slim to none.

LOL @ #1. Yeah, that's a benefit, you can discreetly pay for porno. But if you're trying to buy porn behind your wife's back you probably have bigger things to worry about then the payment method.

I use my credit card so frequently I know the 15 digits (amex), expiry, and 4 digit security code off the top of my head. Takes about 5 seconds to punch it in. And I can use it anytime anywhere without needing to see if the merchant is credible or not. For one, most scam sellers don't take credit cards (since they can be charged back), and if the merchant turns out to be a scam I get my money back with a phone call.

And all the things you mentioned, you can easily have a payment app that stores your credit card details, or other payment method details and lets you buy stuff with 1 click (in fact, amazon has exactly this for credit card purchases), and you get the benefit of knowing with 100% certainty your product will show up, or you get your money back.

Remember the Target credit card data hack?

Consumers aren't giving their payment info (credit card numbers) when paying with bitcoin, so it's impossible for any new charges to pop up after payment has been made.

Not really a benefit. As a consumer you're not responsible for fraudulent charges on your credit card.

Long term, maybe. But short term it's going to be a bitch sorting out the mess when you realize your credit card cards have been maxed, or you checking account wiped out, and you need to pay your bills.

Not really. I've lost my credit card, whoever found it put a bunch of bogus charges on it. Took 1 phone call to fix the problem, and amex sent me a new card that I received the next day.

If I lose my bitcoins then I'm just fucked.

are you really trying to convince a bunch of bitcoin fanatics that bitcion isn't suprerior to fiat?  Or just hoping to spread some FUD to noob passerbys?

[skooter]

I thought using cash was a lot more anonymous than using bitcoin. All Bitcoin transactions are logged and can be potentially traced?

Cash has unique serial numbers and can be potentially marked in other ways.  You would have to use metal coins to be truly anonymous.

Yeah, but places generally don't log the serial #s when you spend cash, lol.

Not to mention how easy it is to wash money at a casino.

[bbeagle]

are you really trying to convince a bunch of bitcoin fanatics that bitcion isn't suprerior to fiat?  Or just hoping to spread some FUD to noob passerbys?

I don't know why bitcoin fanatics want to hide under a rock. There is no FUD in what skooter is saying.

There is a reason bitcoin is not catching on with most Americans. It's NOT better than fiat. You want to be anonymous? Carry cash. For other situations, credit cards are secure for the consumer.

Franky1's situations all make no sense. He obviously doesn't live the life most Americans do.

You card has been declined? Maybe in the 1970s it was something to be ashamed of, not now. It happens occasionally. That's why you carry an extra card in your wallet for that rare occasion. You don't? Pull money out of an ATM using your bank card? You didn't bring either? Maybe that girl should be worried about you.

The coffee shop scenario already exists. I can order at a Starbucks with my phone app and pay with a click of a button, the payment going to my credit card. No problems, nothing beyond a button press. Same at pizza places, the app remembers what I've ordered before. One click, I can get it again.

Really, there is no use for anything quicker or less expensive than what we have now. When I'm online, the merchants I use know my Credit Card numbers already. When I'm out, a simple swipe. It's easy.

Bitcoin is a solution waiting for a problem. International travel? I'm using my bank card to get out cash in the country's currency. And for Americans, most Americans don't even have passports - they never leave their country, so this is never an issue. Americans who do go beyond Canada or Mexico are not poor, so of course they have a bank card, or a credit card that charges no international fees, to get cash abroad.

Maybe the situation is different for poorer Europeans, but America doesn't have these issues. Oh, Western Union? It's a joke. I've NEVER found a reason I needed to use them outside the 1980s. Why do you need cash sent to you? Use your credit card. Or call someone to get their credit card number and use that.

[LostDutchman]

I understand the argument that companies could save 2-3% on transaction costs by accepting bitcoins vs credit cards and probably a few more percentage points since there are no charge backs with bitcoins. But, what incentives does the average consumer have?

I opened up a coinbase account, it cost 1% to go from USD to Bitcoin and 4 days. Go to back to USD will probably take another 1% (I haven't verified). Why would the average consumer pay 2%?

Is international traveling an advantage? For example, let's say I go to Italy and use an ATM with my US debt card and take Euros out. I have no idea what the fee would be, but maybe that's an advantage?

When sending money to someone instead of using western union, is the 2% bitcoin cost the cheaper than western union?

ATM, there are really no advantages for the use of crypto by the AVERAGE consumer and in fact, many disadvantages.

My $.02.

[ryanmnercer]

Remember the Target credit card data hack?

Consumers aren't giving their payment info (credit card numbers) when paying with bitcoin, so it's impossible for any new charges to pop up after payment has been made.

Not really a benefit. As a consumer you're not responsible for fraudulent charges on your credit card.

Yes you are, it's called interest and annual fees. It's built in there. The fraud also gets passed on to the merchant, that raises prices again hurting YOU the consumer.

[jonald_fyookball]

are you really trying to convince a bunch of bitcoin fanatics that bitcion isn't suprerior to fiat?  Or just hoping to spread some FUD to noob passerbys?

I don't know why bitcoin fanatics want to hide under a rock. There is no FUD in what skooter is saying.

There is a reason bitcoin is not catching on with most Americans. It's NOT better than fiat. You want to be anonymous? Carry cash. For other situations, credit cards are secure for the consumer.

Franky1's situations all make no sense. He obviously doesn't live the life most Americans do.

You card has been declined? Maybe in the 1970s it was something to be ashamed of, not now. It happens occasionally. That's why you carry an extra card in your wallet for that rare occasion. You don't? Pull money out of an ATM using your bank card? You didn't bring either? Maybe that girl should be worried about you.

The coffee shop scenario already exists. I can order at a Starbucks with my phone app and pay with a click of a button, the payment going to my credit card. No problems, nothing beyond a button press. Same at pizza places, the app remembers what I've ordered before. One click, I can get it again.

Really, there is no use for anything quicker or less expensive than what we have now. When I'm online, the merchants I use know my Credit Card numbers already. When I'm out, a simple swipe. It's easy.

Bitcoin is a solution waiting for a problem. International travel? I'm using my bank card to get out cash in the country's currency. And for Americans, most Americans don't even have passports - they never leave their country, so this is never an issue. Americans who do go beyond Canada or Mexico are not poor, so of course they have a bank card, or a credit card that charges no international fees, to get cash abroad.

Maybe the situation is different for poorer Europeans, but America doesn't have these issues. Oh, Western Union? It's a joke. I've NEVER found a reason I needed to use them outside the 1980s. Why do you need cash sent to you? Use your credit card. Or call someone to get their credit card number and use that.

Well you're right in the sense that Americans have a fairly seamless financial experience.  The biggest reason I like bitcoin right now as an individual, is actually as a store of value (wealth management). 

As a merchant, btc is obviously superior (credit card merchant fees are a killer)... And I think this will drive adoption.

[smooth]

I think there is a lot of potential for paywalls to provide short term access to paid content without having to register (even free registration). The rate of people not registering when presented with a registration page is really high which tells me most people don't want to do it. More people might be okay with paying the equivalent of 25c-$1 to access content, the online equivalent of buying a newspaper.

There are probably more use cases like this. Bitcoin is the equivalent of cash for online purchases, something that didn't exist before. If there is something you would or do pay cash for offline, and an equivalent exists online (so things like food don't count), that is something useful to you as a consumer.

[LordMo]

Sounds like the average US consumer does not have a compelling reason to use bitcoins. Travelling abroad, a cheaper alternative to western union, and ofcourse investing are reasons to get into it.

How do I short these bitcoin ATM companies in the US? Seems pointless unless they are in big touristy cities.

When is someone going to create an ETF on crypto currencies? It would be much easier to invest than using coinbase and waiting an eternity.

[hilariousandco]

The biggest reason I like bitcoin right now as an individual, is actually as a store of value (wealth management). 

As a merchant, btc is obviously superior (credit card merchant fees are a killer)... And I think this will drive adoption.

Doesn't seem to be storing its wealth very well at the moment. Whilst the benefits are there to merchants who use payment processors, there's not much safety for the consumers, especially when it loses value before you get the chance to spend it.

[smooth]

When is someone going to create an ETF on crypto currencies? It would be much easier to invest than using coinbase and waiting an eternity.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+etf

[LordMo]

When is someone going to create an ETF on crypto currencies? It would be much easier to invest than using coinbase and waiting an eternity.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+etf

I checked with Google, none exist today. Thanks for introducing me to Google btw.

[tysat]

When is someone going to create an ETF on crypto currencies? It would be much easier to invest than using coinbase and waiting an eternity.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+etf

I checked with Google, none exist today. Thanks for introducing me to Google btw.

 

None exist today, but there are two on the way...

[bitsmichel]

easy to send anywhere in the world
possible rise to 10.000$ ?
owning your money as opposed to an organisation of strangers (banks) holding your money

[jonald_fyookball]

The biggest reason I like bitcoin right now as an individual, is actually as a store of value (wealth management). 

As a merchant, btc is obviously superior (credit card merchant fees are a killer)... And I think this will drive adoption.

Doesn't seem to be storing its wealth very well at the moment. Whilst the benefits are there to merchants who use payment processors, there's not much safety for the consumers, especially when it loses value before you get the chance to spend it.

It's storing the value.  Volatility is expected at this stage.  Fiat is guaranteed to inflate, but there will be only 21000000 bitcoins ever mined.