smracer (OP)
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January 04, 2012, 07:16:59 PM |
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I was wondering if it would be possible to submerge a mining rig in pure water to keep it cool.
I would think you would have to disable all fans which would save some energy as well.
Anyone have any experience with this?
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Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
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P4man
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January 04, 2012, 07:24:43 PM |
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Great idea if you like to kill all your hardware. If you want to submerge it, at least use mineral oil, but even then the consensus is that its not a good idea. Its expensive, messy and it will not cool as good as air cooling. If you want silence above all else, and dont mind plumbing an oil pump, filter and oil radiator, it can be done though.
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PrintCoins
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January 04, 2012, 07:27:59 PM |
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I was wondering if it would be possible to submerge a mining rig in pure water to keep it cool.
I would think you would have to disable all fans which would save some energy as well.
Anyone have any experience with this?
Heat transfer between metal and air is not as fast as metal and liquid, so you are on the right track. You just need to use something other than water which is corrosive and conductive (unless distilled). Water is not good to have in your computer. Try this: http://duckduckgo.com/?q=oil+cooled+pc |
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bitcoinnoob101
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January 04, 2012, 07:28:09 PM |
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you can do this if you use mineral oil i have seen it done but i am not sure how good it is long term for the system
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casascius
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January 04, 2012, 07:30:45 PM |
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I would expect that even if you started out with pure water, that enough substance would dissolve off the equipment and into the water to make it not stay pure for very long. It takes very little impurity to make water conductive. You would need an endless stream of distilled water.
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Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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smracer (OP)
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January 04, 2012, 07:32:34 PM |
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Why does that guy that submersed his computer in mineral oil still have the fans running?
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bitcoinnoob101
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January 04, 2012, 07:33:30 PM |
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even laboratory grade pure H2O that is used in the electronics industry witch is made using a system several times more pure that 7 step reverse osmosis would still cause problems and be prohibitively expensive to boot
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bitcoinnoob101
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January 04, 2012, 07:34:49 PM |
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when it is submerged it it still functions the same way the heat heats the oil and it needs to circulate to keep it cool the oil in this case just takes the place of the air in air cooled systems
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jake262144
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January 04, 2012, 07:38:09 PM |
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In pure oil you must mean.
Or in some non-conductive water-cooling liquid. Those are pretty expensive though.
If you actually fancy using water you're on your way to frying the rig.
The whole operation will likely by extremely messy and destroy any resale value of your equipment.
There's a reason liquid cooling isn't done this way, you know.
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smracer (OP)
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January 04, 2012, 07:40:37 PM |
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well I guess that idea won't save any money.
I have read about google moving server farms so they are close to hydroelectric dams.
I have personally spoken to people that live within a few miles of large hydroelectric dams and they pay .01/kwh for electricity.
Also I wonder if using a nat gas generator could save mining costs due to the low cost of nat gas right now.
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PrintCoins
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January 04, 2012, 07:41:07 PM |
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Why does that guy that submersed his computer in mineral oil still have the fans running?
<this was in reference to the video at the top of the DDG results> You need need to circulate the heat away from things. Instead of pushing air, they are pushing oil. Fans don't cool things (even in air) they move the heat that builds around your devices away. Oil will pull the heat out of your devices quicker. A good thing to note in the video is that this is perfectly silent. This is probably a blessing to many miners that have a continual din in the background. It doesn't look like the radiator is needed, but just helps a little more. Keep in mind, your room that you have this in will still be exactly as hot as before. This just makes the local area around the chips drop to the ambient temperature in the room faster. (Rules of thermodynamics still apply). Interestingly, this probably would make running a rig outside a better option. Put an inch of space below your hardware in the tank for any possible accumulated water, put a lid on it, and it should be able to weather the outside world better than a machine not suspended in an oil bath. (But please, keep it out of direct sun.) |
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P4man
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January 04, 2012, 07:47:50 PM |
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It doesn't look like the radiator is needed, but just helps a little more.
A radiator will be absolutely crucial. Otherwise you will just be making a large fryolator to fry french fries in. |
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jake262144
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January 04, 2012, 08:08:28 PM |
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A radiator will be absolutely crucial. Otherwise you will just be making a large fryolator to fry french fries in.
"fryolator", beautifully said P4  Robokhr, you transfer the heat from the rig to the oil tank. Now what? The heat will build up unless you transfer it away. |
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PrintCoins
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January 04, 2012, 09:58:18 PM |
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A radiator will be absolutely crucial. Otherwise you will just be making a large fryolator to fry french fries in.
"fryolator", beautifully said P4 Robokhr, you transfer the heat from the rig to the oil tank. Now what? The heat will build up unless you transfer it away. Wouldn't the surface area of the oil and tank quickly dissipate the heat? If you turn off a deep frier, its temperature drops pretty fast (if not insulated). |
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P4man
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January 04, 2012, 10:15:16 PM
Last edit: January 04, 2012, 10:48:50 PM by P4man |
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Wouldn't the surface area of the oil and tank quickly dissipate the heat? If you turn off a deep frier, its temperature drops pretty fast (if not insulated).
Yeah, but you dont keep the miner turned off, do you? People have tested this in aquaria, and even standard gaming PCs with a single videocard will heat up the oil to 50+C. edit look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXdvHA3tr5UCant tell what videocard that is, but its either IGP or something really lowend. After a few hours he stopped the test when the oil reached 50C. An 800+W mining rig will probably make it literally boil. A square box just doesnt have enough surface area and no airflow over it to get rid of that kind of heat. Hermetically seal your mining PC and see what happens. Nothing good I assure you (even though an alu case is a far better heatconductor than a plexiglass one) |
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casascius
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January 04, 2012, 10:57:36 PM |
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I have an outdoor hot tub that consumes lots of electricity... if I had a feasible way to dump my mining output into the hot tub (heat I already want to pay for), I would still be mining. (And yes I could probably rig my video cards with copper tubing i.e. DIY watercooling, but it's not a worthwhile priority for me.)
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Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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P4man
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January 04, 2012, 10:59:32 PM |
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Thats easy. Fill your hot tub with mineral/baby oil. Seriously, think about it  |
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SgtSpike
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January 05, 2012, 01:15:57 AM |
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Guys... Im pretty sure he wants to put it in a water proof box. And sink into a pool of Really cold water
I'm pretty sure not, since he specifically mentions "pure" water. |
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RandyFolds
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January 05, 2012, 01:34:40 AM |
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I would expect that even if you started out with pure water, that enough substance would dissolve off the equipment and into the water to make it not stay pure for very long. It takes very little impurity to make water conductive. You would need an endless stream of distilled water.
Deionized water is a very aggressive solvent, meaning that it will strip things right out of the air. It is pretty much instantly ionized when you put it into a container unless it is quality borosilicate. |
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jake262144
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January 05, 2012, 01:44:31 AM |
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The problem with outdoor cooling is dirt and condensation, but a sealed oil submerged computer could be put outside into brutally cold weather. Some very inhospitable places could become prime data centers.
...until you need to hot-swap a hard drive double-quick Wouldn't the surface area of the oil and tank quickly dissipate the heat? If you turn off a deep frier, its temperature drops pretty fast (if not insulated).
Dissipate a few hundred Watts (at best) worth of heat by surface area? Surely you must be joking. Are we supposed to have a sensible thread here or some goddarned fantasy? |
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