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Author Topic: Noob with dreams of granduer  (Read 1466 times)
phearmonger
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April 10, 2011, 07:10:07 AM
 #1

Hey all,

Basically i'm new to bitcoin and have a huge interest in this, and if i could possibly get an answer to a few questions that would be greatly appreciated.

Is there any real use to looking into the bitcoin system by those other then the deep pocketed able to afford the pricey GPUs required to perform decently?

Even if i did have 10 machines all running 5970's overclocked running 24/7, what type of return can be expected, and how can the GPU processing power of that type of setup be less than a single Nvidia 4x4 Tesla server rack running 24/7?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

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April 10, 2011, 07:13:25 AM
 #2

Hey all,

Basically i'm new to bitcoin and have a huge interest in this, and if i could possibly get an answer to a few questions that would be greatly appreciated.

Is there any real use to looking into the bitcoin system by those other then the deep pocketed able to afford the pricey GPUs required to perform decently?

Even if i did have 10 machines all running 5970's overclocked running 24/7, what type of return can be expected, and how can the GPU processing power of that type of setup be less than a single Nvidia 4x4 Tesla server rack running 24/7?

Thanks in advance for any replies.



I'd love to answer your questions as best as I can!

There is definitely a use in looking into the system even if you can't afford the expensive GPUs.  You can get a decently priced and powered GPU and join a mining pool, where your efforts won't be wasted and you'll see a decent return. 

Not exactly sure about answering the second question. 

Feel free to send a coin or two my way: 1MBruH4RuU4aZGb7kUHXC1EmKxerzCrwpv
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phearmonger
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April 10, 2011, 08:55:14 AM
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Ah, i was kinda leaning towards the idea of pools being more or less a pyramid type scheme.

such as, 50 total users in the pool


Top tier users generating 50% of processing power getting 50% of coins generated.

other 50% is divided amongst the rest of the pool. Which would lead many new users away from the currency no? More educational material is needed and better documentation.

If the bitcoin is to be widespread it has to be understandable, without much prior knowledge. Like fiat currencies, in the sense that before we learn the real meaning of a dollar we know we need the dollar to buy something. And before we know we need the dollar to buy something we know dollars are not free.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And yes, that second question was poorly worded. Hah, i apologize. Let me strike that from the record and follow it up with a new question entirely.

If one was to pursue gather bitcoins as a full time job, investing into the hardware. Investing time in educating others as a means to receive tips or compensation if the education was of a meaningful value, and worthy of compensation. Could one make a decent bi-weekly earning from Bitcoin alone? Or is it merely a venture best left to wishful thinking.
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April 10, 2011, 09:45:15 AM
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None of the pools I know of are pyramid schemes.  You get bitcoins proportional to your mining contribution, if someone does 50% of the work for the pool, the get 50% of the coins.  The purpose of pools is to greatly reduce the variance of mining (for a small few, usually a few %)

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LMGTFY
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April 10, 2011, 10:14:26 AM
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Is there any real use to looking into the bitcoin system by those other then the deep pocketed able to afford the pricey GPUs required to perform decently?

Even if i did have 10 machines all running 5970's overclocked running 24/7, what type of return can be expected, and how can the GPU processing power of that type of setup be less than a single Nvidia 4x4 Tesla server rack running 24/7?
I don't consider myself "deep pocketed", though I will admit I had never spent more than the bare minimum on graphics cards until I discovered bitcoin. Back in February I did some sums, and worked out that I could afford to buy a second-hand 5870 for £130 (about US $215). That included tax, and postage was another £5 or so. I figured that the worst case scenario was that I'd end up with a really good (by my standards!) graphics card. Best case scenario was that I'd make enough bitcoins to pay for the card. I've been lucky, both with bitcoin generation and the exchange rate, and I managed to pay for the card within a month or so.

Even with recent difficulty changes, I've tended to generate around three blocks per "difficulty", i.e. I reset my mental clock each time the difficulty changes (roughly once a fortnight). This "fortnight" (the one we're in now) I've not generated anything yet. Last fortnight I got 3 blocks - 2 solo mining, one mining as part of a pool (though I didn't get 50 bitcoins for pool mining). The fortnight before that I only mined in a pool, and I found 3 blocks (and made around 100 bitcoins).

So, to answer your first question, it's not necessary to have lots and lots of expensive GPUs to mine successfully. However, you might consider spending your money just buying bitcoins, rather than buying mining hardware. It depends on your level of interest and your needs. I felt I could justify buying one graphics card, I'm not so sure I could have justified buying several (though, in hindsight, it would have been very profitable).

Turning to your second question: this list and this calculator are very useful. use them to try different scenarios. For example, you mention 10 machines all with 5970s. You can fit more than one 5970 in each machine, but lets ignore than and just consider ten 5970s. Each 5970 has a Mhash/s rate of between 530 and 645: lets pick 560 as a conservative value. Ten 5970s will yield 5600 Mhash/s (10 x 560, obviously!) which will, according to the calculator, provide an average of one block (50 bitcoins) every 17 hours 32 minutes at current difficulty.

...but that's not enough information on its own. You also need to consider when the difficulty will change, and what it will change to. We don't know, but bitcoincharts.com has an estimate. It also has various exchange rates, which will help you work out what your 50 bitcoins every 17-18 hours are worth in your usual currency (the currency you probably use to pay for GPUs and other things!)

Hope this helps. Only you can really answer the questions you've asked, and even then you'll be making guesses based on what may or may not happen in the future. The best advice I can give is to not spend what you can't afford to lose: if you can afford to spend money on one new graphics card, and you're not concerned about that card paying for itself (and most people outside this forum probably never consider the prospect that a graphics card could pay for itself!) then a small investment in a GPU could be an excellent idea. If you're in a position to make a large investment, that could potentially be very profitable but equally could result in you losing the entire investment, then consider either buying bitcoins directly, or investing in several GPUs and the accompanying hardward (motherboards, power supplies etc).

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Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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April 10, 2011, 05:31:44 PM
 #6

You're only focusing on the mining aspect (at least in this post). There's a lot more to BTC than that.
You could sell something for btc, you could buy from an individual or an exchange.
If you can program anything doesn't matter if it's PHP or ios you can probably come up with something useful.
Just participating in the board / irc helps.

There's a lot more to it than mining but a lot of people look there first because they see it as a money maker.
I'm not saying people shouldn't mine and can't make money just that there is a lot more to it.

Glad to have you with us though.

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Inu
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April 12, 2011, 12:24:06 AM
 #7

Probability   Time
Average   8405 days, 16 hours, 16 minutes
50%   5826 days, 8 hours, 55 minutes
95%   25181 days, 3 hours, 51 minutes

Over 8,000 days??? How in the heck is one supposed to generate anything I would need to have 50 computers running to get something anytime soon... And I have a pretty decent gaming machine as is.
fabianhjr
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April 12, 2011, 12:27:43 AM
 #8

Please, if you have a "decent" gaming rig check for either the CUDA or OpenCL drivers, update to latest, and start GPU-mining. It is so much better. Wink

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