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Author Topic: BitLotto May 4th Syndicate (Unofficial)  (Read 1416 times)
Alex Beckenham
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April 10, 2011, 06:32:08 PM
 #1

I am starting a syndicate for the May 4th BitLotto draw, open to anyone who wants to join.

To join, send ANY amount (>=0.01) to:
1BYjghnHNjcvLsdSadJyTaiy6UaPtK1Hz6
(As with direct BitLotto entries, you must use your own wallet, NOT a web-based wallet like mybitcoin.com)

Pros and cons of joining a syndicate vs playing BitLotto directly:

Direct BitLotto play:

Pros
  • If you win, you win the whole jackpot
  • Greater transparency
Cons
  • Must play in multiples of 1 BTC (Cannot play with 0.99 btc or less, and multiple entries requires multiple transactions)
  • Smaller chance of winning

Syndicate:

Pros
  • Greater chance of winning something
  • More flexible payment option (Deposit any amount >= 0.01, in just one transaction if you wish)
Cons
  • Need to trust a 3rd-party (me)
  • Need to share winnings with other syndicate members

As the manager of this syndicate, I agree:

  • To use all funds collected by May 1st* to purchase tickets in the May 4th BitLotto draw.
  • To pay any winnings to syndicate members in direct proportion to their syndicate deposits within 48 hours of receiving the winnings.

*I'm suggesting a 3-day buffer to make sure all entries are in before the draw.

Disclaimers:
  • I am not the owner of BitLotto or affiliated with BitLotto in any way. By joining this syndicate you are putting your trust in a 3rd-party.
  • I am not making any profit out of this, just doing it because noone else has yet as far as I can tell, and I passionately want the Bitcoin community to explore any and every possible use of the currency that we can think of!

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bitlotto
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April 10, 2011, 08:25:48 PM
 #2

Interesting idea! The name makes me a little nervous though. Makes me think of partner or something. Maybe "lottery pool". Obviously it's up to you as I have nothing to do with this. I haven't really thought about pools yet till you made one. I wish you success. This has reminded me to make warnings on my website about pools (I don't mean yours but pools in general)

Keep in mind:
-the operator of the pool should have some type of system to keep track of what was donated/spent and verifying it (if relying on the Bitcoin network, no one can use online access accounts -you must run Bitcoin yourself)
-if you are using the Bitcoin network (eg viewer. Blockexplorer.com) to track the purchases make sure the operator of the pool spends the pooled money using the same address or you will have no idea if your pool won and they could keep the winnings without knowledge
-if a different account is used to make the BitLotto payments make sure the pool operator tells you the entries BEFORE the draw
-the trust is between you and the pool operator. BitLotto's obligation is to only pay whoever paid the entries. It is up to the operator now to pay the pool


Anyways, good luck and I wish you well. (Sorry, the warnings are not for you in particular but for all pools)

P.S. It would probably be a good idea to buy the tickets as the funds are available as apposed to waiting till the end. That way the jackpot grows quicker and encourages more to enter. If you wait till the end to spend a bunch it's too late.

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
Alex Beckenham
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April 11, 2011, 01:39:36 AM
 #3

-the operator of the pool should have some type of system to keep track of what was donated/spent and verifying it (if relying on the Bitcoin network, no one can use online access accounts -you must run Bitcoin yourself)
-if you are using the Bitcoin network (eg viewer. Blockexplorer.com) to track the purchases make sure the operator of the pool spends the pooled money using the same address or you will have no idea if your pool won and they could keep the winnings without knowledge
-if a different account is used to make the BitLotto payments make sure the pool operator tells you the entries BEFORE the draw
-the trust is between you and the pool operator. BitLotto's obligation is to only pay whoever paid the entries. It is up to the operator now to pay the pool
It would probably be a good idea to buy the tickets as the funds are available as apposed to waiting till the end.

Thanks for the comments.
- I have already mentioned you need to use your own wallet.
- I will be using blockexplorer to track deposits.
- It's likely a different address will be used to pay for the entries, because I don't know how to control what address the default client pays from, however,
- I will list the address here before the draw.
- And I'll take your suggestion on board and pay for entries as funds come in (but still close it May 1st).

bitlotto
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April 11, 2011, 03:53:56 AM
 #4


- It's likely a different address will be used to pay for the entries, because I don't know how to control what address


In Bitcoin GUI open the Address Book. In the receiving Tab select the address. (You'll notice that the 'Your Bitcoin address" text box changes to whatever you highlight. Send the money. AFAIK as long as the funds are actually there it will use the account listed. If there is not enough it takes from other accounts.

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
Alex Beckenham
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April 11, 2011, 03:58:42 AM
 #5


- It's likely a different address will be used to pay for the entries, because I don't know how to control what address


In Bitcoin GUI open the Address Book. In the receiving Tab select the address. (You'll notice that the 'Your Bitcoin address" text box changes to whatever you highlight. Send the money. AFAIK as long as the funds are actually there it will use the account listed. If there is not enough it takes from other accounts.

Thanks I didn't know that, I thought the client always just used the oldest or smallest addresses first.

theymos
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April 11, 2011, 04:02:36 AM
 #6

In Bitcoin GUI open the Address Book. In the receiving Tab select the address. (You'll notice that the 'Your Bitcoin address" text box changes to whatever you highlight. Send the money. AFAIK as long as the funds are actually there it will use the account listed. If there is not enough it takes from other accounts.

It doesn't work like that. The money is sent from arbitrary addresses.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
Alex Beckenham
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April 11, 2011, 04:04:50 AM
 #7

In Bitcoin GUI open the Address Book. In the receiving Tab select the address. (You'll notice that the 'Your Bitcoin address" text box changes to whatever you highlight. Send the money. AFAIK as long as the funds are actually there it will use the account listed. If there is not enough it takes from other accounts.

It doesn't work like that. The money is sent from arbitrary addresses.

Thanks I didn't know that, I thought the client always just used the oldest or smallest addresses first Smiley


Interesting idea! The name makes me a little nervous though. Makes me think of partner or something. Maybe "lottery pool".

Also by the way, the word 'syndicate' is common usage where I'm from, Australia, and "Lottery syndicate" is listed as an example for the word on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate

theymos
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April 11, 2011, 04:17:12 AM
 #8

Thanks I didn't know that, I thought the client always just used the oldest or smallest addresses first Smiley

It tries to choose coins that add up to not much more than your send amount. There's also randomization involved.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
bitlotto
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April 11, 2011, 04:43:06 AM
 #9

Thanks I didn't know that, I thought the client always just used the oldest or smallest addresses first Smiley

It tries to choose coins that add up to not much more than your send amount. There's also randomization involved.

Hmm. So far after doing it maybe 10 times it has worked. Start at: http://blockexplorer.com/address/18dts6fXXA7jVKfYMBpsFqx7iZCELCfDpk and check the first transfer out.
Follow to:
15N88gCoJU2pHguHPqFNCapXKvke7UCzr3
Then:
1D9c6qLKRjxh7xbyv6MBUcBFJHDFeDQpsg
Then:
16U6zvTH3UKP8EHT6mPZod8C2FrS4oVyy5

So far even though I have multiple coins, I'm transferring .04 BTC from one account to the other. Even though it creates some random accounts it still removes the coins from the right account and the 0.04 ends up in the right account. I'm not sure what I am missing...in the list of from/to at least one of them is right and a withdrawal hasn't shown up in the bitlotto account yet...

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
bitlotto
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April 11, 2011, 04:49:32 AM
 #10

In Bitcoin GUI open the Address Book. In the receiving Tab select the address. (You'll notice that the 'Your Bitcoin address" text box changes to whatever you highlight. Send the money. AFAIK as long as the funds are actually there it will use the account listed. If there is not enough it takes from other accounts.

It doesn't work like that. The money is sent from arbitrary addresses.

Thanks I didn't know that, I thought the client always just used the oldest or smallest addresses first Smiley


Interesting idea! The name makes me a little nervous though. Makes me think of partner or something. Maybe "lottery pool".

Also by the way, the word 'syndicate' is common usage where I'm from, Australia, and "Lottery syndicate" is listed as an example for the word on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate


Learn something everyday. Hmm. No longer nervous! Wink

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
theymos
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April 11, 2011, 08:31:23 AM
 #11

Hmm. So far after doing it maybe 10 times it has worked. Start at: http://blockexplorer.com/address/18dts6fXXA7jVKfYMBpsFqx7iZCELCfDpk and check the first transfer out.
Follow to:
15N88gCoJU2pHguHPqFNCapXKvke7UCzr3
Then:
1D9c6qLKRjxh7xbyv6MBUcBFJHDFeDQpsg
Then:
16U6zvTH3UKP8EHT6mPZod8C2FrS4oVyy5

If you keep sending 0.04, Bitcoin will keep re-using the same coin because it's the best fit for a send of 0.04. If you have two 0.04 coins and make several 0.04 sends, you would see that Bitcoin chooses between them randomly. If you have a mix of coins with no exact matches, it gets even more unpredictable.

Bitcoin offers no ability to choose the sending address.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
Alex Beckenham
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April 11, 2011, 08:40:54 AM
 #12

So in order to ensure easy tracking I should send the entire amount as one transaction to a brand-new empty wallet, then from there use that wallet to  purchase the entries. Then they'd all come from exactly the same address.

Uh... except for the 'change' issue.

By the way, the exercise is purely academic. I'm more than happy for anyone to 'steal' my idea if they think they can do a better job.

Meanwhile I'll keep working on improving it Smiley

bitlotto
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April 11, 2011, 12:08:14 PM
 #13

Hmm. So far after doing it maybe 10 times it has worked. Start at: http://blockexplorer.com/address/18dts6fXXA7jVKfYMBpsFqx7iZCELCfDpk and check the first transfer out.
Follow to:
15N88gCoJU2pHguHPqFNCapXKvke7UCzr3
Then:
1D9c6qLKRjxh7xbyv6MBUcBFJHDFeDQpsg
Then:
16U6zvTH3UKP8EHT6mPZod8C2FrS4oVyy5

If you keep sending 0.04, Bitcoin will keep re-using the same coin because it's the best fit for a send of 0.04. If you have two 0.04 coins and make several 0.04 sends, you would see that Bitcoin chooses between them randomly. If you have a mix of coins with no exact matches, it gets even more unpredictable.

Bitcoin offers no ability to choose the sending address.

Interesting. Would have been nice if I can select the address. Oh well. I guess for BitLottto, people will be able to figure out the total pool, and I'll just point to the transaction of payment as proof. I'm just glad it doesn't screw me up too much....

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
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