Russian Parliament May Charge Gorbachev With “Treason” For Breaking Up USSR

[Wilikon]

A group of Russian MPs has formally requested that prosecutors investigate former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev for treason over the breakup of the Soviet Union, one lawmaker said Thursday.

Ivan Nikitchuk, a deputy with the Communist party, said recent events and the Ukraine crisis in particular have led five MPs, including two from the ruling United Russia party, to ask Prosecutor General Yury Chaika to probe Gorbachev, 83.

“We asked to prosecute him and those who helped him destroy the Soviet Union for treason of national interests,” Nikitchuk told AFP, adding that Soviet citizens in 1991 were against the country’s breakup.

Seeking to create a more open and prosperous Soviet Union through glasnost and perestroika, Gorbachev ended up inadvertently unleashing forces that swept the country he had sought to preserve from the map and himself from power.

“The consequences of that destruction can be felt today in the conflicts that we have seen,” said Nikitchuk.

He added that this included not only Ukraine but also in other former Soviet countries over the past two decades.

In February, a popular pro-Western uprising in Ukraine ousted pro-Moscow president Viktor Yanukovych, who has since taken refuge in Russia.

The Kremlin responded by sending troops to Ukraine’s Russian-speaking peninsula of Crimea and annexing it as part of Russia last month.

“What is happening in Ukraine can happen in Russia, too,” said Nikitchuk. “This pushed us to write to the Prosecutor General, so that professional lawyers rather than historians investigate the events of 1991.”

He added that lawmakers were also concerned about internal enemies stirring unrest.

“The fifth column in our country has been formed and works in the open, funded by foreign money,” he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-mps-want-gorbachev-probed-treason-over-ussr-144643924.html

[NationOwnedCCNow]

I love Russians theese days.

This Whole thing has 1 and 1 intention only:

To enlighten the west of Russian history.



Russia was "occupied" and controlled by non-nationalists for over 80 years. Gorbachev was a freemason who they caught conspiring With the west(THe KGB. And as he admits himself: He was under surveillance constantly). They tried to coup him out and failed. In fear of losing the Soviet and HALF of the world to a force uncontrollable he was ordered by his freemason superiors to dissolve the Soviet Union. Right after he moved to USA.


Facts of the day peeps

[Wilikon]

I love Russians theese days.

This Whole thing has 1 and 1 intention only:

To enlighten the west of Russian history.



Russia was "occupied" and controlled by non-nationalists for over 80 years. Gorbachev was a freemason who they caught conspiring With the west(THe KGB. And as he admits himself: He was under surveillance constantly). They tried to coup him out and failed. In fear of losing the Soviet and HALF of the world to a force uncontrollable he was ordered by his freemason superiors to dissolve the Soviet Union. Right after he moved to USA.


Facts of the day peeps

Freemasons! We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner; now *I* am the master.

Always those damned Freemasons! It's as if no one can collapse a Berlin wall without their help or something... LOL!

[bryant.coleman]

They shouldn't try these people for treason. Rather they should be tried for the death of close to 20 million people, who lost their lives in the post-USSR economic collapse (13 million in Russia, most of the remaining in Ukraine). And the no.1 perpetrator was the drunkard Yeltsin. Gorbachev played his part, but he was only no.2.

[NationOwnedCCNow]

http://realitybloger.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/fc5ae-obama.jpg?w=359&h=253


http://lurkmore.so/images/9/92/Evilmason1589.jpg

[Nemo1024]

They shouldn't try these people for treason. Rather they should be tried for the death of close to 20 million people, who lost their lives in the post-USSR economic collapse (13 million in Russia, most of the remaining in Ukraine). And the no.1 perpetrator was the drunkard Yeltsin. Gorbachev played his part, but he was only no.2.

Pretty much this. One has also to remember that Gorbachev was under house arrest during the whole coup (GKCHP - ГКЧП) affair. And that the dissolvement of USSR happened between the three musket... conspirators: Yeltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich (Belovhezhskoe agreement)

As for Gorbachev, I think he was on the right track with internal state reforms, but they came too late. So it ended up as it goes in one of Chernomyrdin's popular sayings: "We wanted it to be the best, but it ended up being as always" (Xoтeли кaк лyчшe, a пoлyчилocь кaк вceгдa).

I think the whole notion of trial over Gorbachev is ridiculous at best. It might well be a publicity move by those proposing it, so as to score internal political points.

[bryant.coleman]

I think the whole notion of trial over Gorbachev is ridiculous at best. It might well be a publicity move by those proposing it, so as to score internal political points.

Agreed. Gorbachev can go to hell. And its is not too late to confiscate the money Yeltsin stole from Russia and Ukraine. Arrest his family and recover the money. His family can keep the bribe which he received from the CIA. And most importantly, the Yelsin memorial in Moscow's Novodevichy cemetery should be dug up immediately and the remains must be dumped in the radio active waste disposal unit in Murmansk Oblast.

[Balthazar]

Many people are triying to sympathize Gorbachev, but it's a result of ignorance. Just read something about his confiscatory reforms and you will understand why he should be imprisoned. These "reforms" can only be described as an economical crime.

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFzma3Rr8Q8

Maybe, somebody will describe contents of this video.

By the way, something similar now happening in the Ukraine... SCSE,  crazy inflation rate and the upcoming financial reform.

[Nemo1024]

Many people are triying to sympathize Gorbachev, but it's a result of ignorance. Just read something about his confiscatory reforms and you will understand why he should be imprisoned. These "reforms" can only be described as an economical crime.

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFzma3Rr8Q8

Maybe, somebody will describe contents of this video.

By the way, something similar now happening in the Ukraine... SCSE,  crazy inflation rate and the upcoming financial reform.

It's pretty short. I'll write an English transcript.
As for the monetary reform of 1991, yes, I remember it to be a pretty painful affair, with many families (our including) losing large portions of their life's savings.

[Kiki112]

I love Russians theese days.

This Whole thing has 1 and 1 intention only:

To enlighten the west of Russian history.



Russia was "occupied" and controlled by non-nationalists for over 80 years. Gorbachev was a freemason who they caught conspiring With the west(THe KGB. And as he admits himself: He was under surveillance constantly). They tried to coup him out and failed. In fear of losing the Soviet and HALF of the world to a force uncontrollable he was ordered by his freemason superiors to dissolve the Soviet Union. Right after he moved to USA.


Facts of the day peeps

seems a bit to farfetched..

[bryant.coleman]

It's pretty short. I'll write an English transcript.
As for the monetary reform of 1991, yes, I remember it to be a pretty painful affair, with many families (our including) losing large portions of their life's savings.

Everyone who is responsible for the 1991 economic crisis should have been hanged years ago. Millions of lives were lost because of the greed of a selected few people.   

[Nemo1024]

Many people are triying to sympathize Gorbachev, but it's a result of ignorance. Just read something about his confiscatory reforms and you will understand why he should be imprisoned. These "reforms" can only be described as an economical crime.

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFzma3Rr8Q8

Maybe, somebody will describe contents of this video.

By the way, something similar now happening in the Ukraine... SCSE,  crazy inflation rate and the upcoming financial reform.

As promised:

What are the monetary reforms for? So as to repair a country's financial system, that was disrupted by some events. Most often a country's financial system is disrupted by war. Post-war monetary reforms is a normal event, applicable not only to Russia. What is a monetary reform? It is either the introduction of a new monetary unit or a change of its size. There are two types of monetary reforms: Compensatory and Confiscationary. The most representative example of the confiscationary monetary reform, is the reform of 1991. To reiterate, "confiscationary" means that part of the monetary volume is removed from the circulation - confiscation of that money.

That was the main goal of monetary reform of 1991. Why? Because by that time the monetary system of the Soviet Union was practically completely destroyed. People amassed significant amounts of money, while the shelves of the shops were empty. A card distribution system was introduced for sausages, butter, and, even, vodka. Previously the card system was used only during The War and was cancelled together with the monetary reform of 1947. How could it happen that the financial system was destroyed without a war, even though the Afghan war should not be written off? The answer is simple. In 1973, thanks to Gadaffi, there was an oil crisis and oil prices skyrocketed to all time highs. Soviet Union got hooked on the oil drug needle. In 1985 the oil prices collapsed, and together with the oil prices, the economy of the Soviet Union collapsed as well. And after that, the Soviet Union itself.

One way or another, on the 22nd of January 1991, late in the evening, there appears a publication of the Presidential Decree by the President of the USSR, Mihail Gorbachev, announcing a monetary reform. It cooked down to removal from circulation of the largest for that time monetary bank notes, valuing 50 and 100 roubles. The citize4ns get a chance of exchanging these bank notes into smaller-denominated bank notes, but not exceeding the total sum of 1000 roubles per person, and only within 3 days, 23th-25th of January 1991. The information about exchange of the notes is written down in the person's passport. If you accumulated 5000 roubles, say to buy a car, you would get exchanged 1000 roubles, while the remaining 4000 were lost. Tough luck. By this means the Ministry of Finance tries to remove from the circulation 81 billion roubles. As the result, they managed to confiscate "only" 14 billion roubles. The reform was a failure. Why? It looks like those who had the most money knew about the reform beforehand and were prepared. Some found other loopholes. The decree was published in the evening, while it came into power only by next morning. They had the whole night. One could hail a taxi with a driver who hadn't yet heard about the reform, and ask him to exchange a 100 rouble note. One could send to oneself or to the relatives large sums of money via Postal money transfer from post offices in the railway stations, where those post offices were open almost 24 hours. One could buy 10 tickets for a train ride Moscow - Vladivostock, and return them on the next day. And so on. (From translator: Oh bugger. One could, if Bitcoin existed then, also convert roubles to BTC, and then back again. Is that why BTC is frowned upon in Russia? To make reforms easier.) The night from 22nd to the 23rd of January 1991 was a very restless one.

The reform didn't reach its goal, but had exceptionally negative repercussions. Firstly, the trust in the government was undermined. After all, only a few days before the reform there were statements from high-ranking officials, that there will be no reform (From translator: the same situation as during the reform of 1947 and especially 1961). 12 days before the presidential decree, the minister of finances, Valentin Pavlov assures everyone that there will be no reform, and he does so during the meeting of the Supreme Council of USSR. "What are you talking about", he said, "a reform needs at least two years of preparation".

Valentin Pavlov is probably the most unpopular finance minister in the history of Russia. He was born in 1937, had a big bureaucratic career, after school, financial university, after the the Kalinin regional executive office in Moscow, Ministry of Finances of Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (RSFSR),  Ministry of Finances of USSR, state planning office, again MinFin of USSR, State committee of Price Creation, again MinFin of USSR (as the minister), and then Prime Minister of USSR. Finally GKCHP (coup government), and Matrosskaja Tishina (prison).

Secondly, as the confiscation of money failed, a new step towards normalisation of the financial system was undertaken, which was even less popular among the populace. Already two months after the reform the prices for all good were abruptly increased - tripling on average. And the age of inflation of the 1990s had started.

[Balthazar]

Reform in 1947 achieved its goal, actually...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hE2B-XJioI

Financial system was restored and worked until dissolution of the USSR. This shows how great was the difference between the real goals of the reforms in 1991, and stated goals.

[Nemo1024]

Reform in 1947 achieved its goal, actually...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hE2B-XJioI

Financial system was restored and worked until dissolution of the USSR. This shows how great was the difference between the real goals of the reforms in 1991, and stated goals.

Not entirely. There was that bloody reform of 1961.
http://www.opoccuu.com/r1961.htm

[Balthazar]

Reform in 1947 achieved its goal, actually...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hE2B-XJioI

Financial system was restored and worked until dissolution of the USSR. This shows how great was the difference between the real goals of the reforms in 1991, and stated goals.

Not entirely. There was that bloody reform of 1961.
http://www.opoccuu.com/r1961.htm

Yep, Khruschev is another fool... No wonder he had to retire.

[bryant.coleman]

Yep, Khruschev is another fool... No wonder he had to retire.

Don't forget that Nikita Khrushchev was the idiot who made Crimea a part of Ukraine. Not only that, he re-settled all the unwashed hordes like the Chechens back to Caucasus, which is causing ethnic clashes there right now.

[Carlton Banks]

Yep, Khruschev is another fool... No wonder he had to retire.

Don't forget that Nikita Khrushchev was the idiot who made Crimea a part of Ukraine. Not only that, he re-settled all the unwashed hordes like the Chechens back to Caucasus, which is causing ethnic clashes there right now.

Strange how so many administrative decisions are simply recipes for future conflicts. I'm being cynical, if that's not totally obvious.

[Balthazar]

Actually, Khruschev it's someone like 1960s version of Bush. He was't smart enough for administrative work, but he had enough initial support. Due to his controversal or even foolish decisions (some of those were made against law, including constitution) he became into a subject of many political jokes here.

Unfortunately, we got enough damage before he was forced to retire.

[Carlton Banks]

Actually, Khruschev it's someone like 1960s version of Bush. He was't smart enough for administrative work, but he had enough initial support. Due to his controversal or even foolish decisions (some of those were made against law, including constitution) he became into a subject of many political jokes here.

Unfortunately, we got enough damage before he was forced to retire.

"Idiot president to blame" becomes the popular narrative. As you point out, the idiot isn't smart enough to make policy decisions. But someone was doing it. Question is, were they idiots too?

[Balthazar]

"Idiot president to blame" becomes the popular narrative. As you point out, the idiot isn't smart enough to make policy decisions. But someone was doing it. Question is, were they idiots too?

It was popular 40-60 years ago... Now everybody forgot about that, unfortunately. Unfortunately, because repeating of the mistakes will be inevitable without the knowledge of the past.

The truth is that any authority is a projection of society. If an idiot got into the power, then it will be reasonable to blame society in this... With some exceptions, of course.