Ukraine gold sent to America

[niothor]

It's 99 years since Russia is safe keeping romanian gold , but that of course it's normal

It seems that somebody is misinformed... According to Central Bank records, ~64 tonnes were already returned during 1930-1990. Another ~7 tonnes were arrested as reparations for the damage, which was caused by WW2. I think that it's much better than situation with Germany.

Only 33 tones have been returned , not 64.
And here we're talking only about gold. the other valuables are still missing.

[Balthazar]

Only 33 tones have been returned , not 64.

According to Gheorghe Gheorghiu records, "a problem of monarchical gold reserves was permanently closed", and I see no reason to doubt in his words... The authorities, who have replaced Ceauşescu, are simply looking for the ways to earn some additional points, that's all. They can have another point of view, of course.

[niothor]

Only 33 tones have been returned , not 64.

According to Gheorghe Gheorghiu records, "the problem of monarchical gold reserves was permanently closed", and I see no reason to doubt in his words... The authorities, who have replaced Ceauşescu, are simply looking for the ways to earn some additional points, that's all. They can have another point of view, of course.

Wait , are we talking about the puppet of Stalin? The man that forced king Mihai to abdicate? the one that sent peoples with shovels to dig the Danube - Black Sea canal where 200 000 romanians died?
The man that got that crazy that even Russians had to dispose of him?

Get yourself another source:)

[Balthazar]

Such rhetoric does not make any sense when we are talking about material goods.   There are records of sending and receiving gold (both Soviet and Romanian records for 1934, 1936 and 1950-1960s, 1986), there are statements from politicians (Gheorghiu, Ceauşescu)... Ceauşescu even have sent a request to Moscow in 1986. He asked Gorbachev to confirm that no error has been occurred, and that the gold received on in 1986 really was from the Romanian reserves. If you want to challenge them, then you have to conduct an investigation for all of their activities.

However, even if all you have said is correct, it doesn't matter. Gold was received in 1916 by Nicolas II government. Lenin's government announced that the Russian Federation is not a successor of the Russian Empire. So USSR had a right to return nothing at all... Because de jure and de facto it had nothing in common with the empire or Nicholas II, except territory. Especially after the two world wars. However, the refund was done, even if not completely... So, you really need another source.  

[niothor]

Such rhetoric does not make any sense when we are talking about material goods.   There are records of sending and receiving gold (both Soviet and Romanian records for 1934, 1936 and 1950-1960s, 1986), there are statements from politicians (Gheorghiu, Ceauşescu)... Ceauşescu even have sent a request to Moscow in 1986. He asked Gorbachev to confirm that no error has been occurred, and that the gold received on in 1986 really was from the Romanian reserves. If you want to challenge them, then you have to conduct an investigation for all of their activities.

However, even if all you have said is correct, it doesn't matter. Gold was received in 1916 by Nicolas II government. Lenin's government announced that the Russian Federation is not a successor of the Russian Empire. So USSR had a right to return nothing at all... Because de jure and de facto it had nothing in common with the empire or Nicholas II, except territory. Especially after the two world wars. However, the refund was done, even if not completely... So, you really need another source.  

Noi aici nu ridicăm decât problema de a restitui ceea ce a fost depozitat şi ceea ce puterea sovietică a spus că va restitui poporului român
Nu înţelegem de ce să ridicăm problema decontărilor. Aceasta într-adevăr nu are nici un rost. Nu înţelegem să ridicăm problema aceasta simplă (a tezaurului - n.r.) de problemele celui de-al doilea război mondial. (...

This is the only known line when Ceausescu is talking about the gold and it's with brejnev.

brejnev denied that the urss had any gold still in storage

reading through the discussion with gorbaciov there is no mention of gold/treasure.

And no , i'm not posting the lines in romanian just to annoy 247crypto

[bryant.coleman]

Only 33 tones have been returned , not 64.
And here we're talking only about gold. the other valuables are still missing.

Romania were one of the aggressors in the WW2, which caused around 30 million Russian deaths. Even after this, it was the generosity of the USSR to allow more than half of the gold to be repatriated.

[niothor]

Only 33 tones have been returned , not 64.
And here we're talking only about gold. the other valuables are still missing.

Romania were one of the aggressors in the WW2, which caused around 30 million Russian deaths. Even after this, it was the generosity of the USSR to allow more than half of the gold to be repatriated.

March 1940
29: The Russians want new territories. Molotov speaks to the Supreme Soviet, about "an unsettled dispute", the question of Romanian Bessarabia.

June 1940
27: Romanians propose negotiations. Molotov replies that the demands are land concessions or war. New ultimatum from the Soviets to the Romanians.

28: The Red Army occupies Romanian Bessarabia and the northern part of Bukovina.

August 1940
30: The bombing of England continues; London is now bombed in retaliation for the bombing of Berlin; thus, the beginning of "the London Blitz."
: Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini dictated the so-called Second Vienna Award which forced Romania to hand over the Northern Transylvania (including the entire Maramureş and part of Crişana) to Hungary.

September 1940
6: King Carol abdicates the Romanian throne in favour of his son Michael while control of the government is taken by Marshal Antonescu.

October 1940
7: Germany invades Romania to block the Soviet Army and get access to valuable oil fields.

November 1940
23: Romania signs the Tripartite Pact.

So , we were the aggressors?

How is that?
Now really , while I appreciate a lot of your post... please , at least when you're talking about my country double check the info

[zolace]

Only 33 tones have been returned , not 64.
And here we're talking only about gold. the other valuables are still missing.

Romania were one of the aggressors in the WW2, which caused around 30 million Russian deaths. Even after this, it was the generosity of the USSR to allow more than half of the gold to be repatriated.

March 1940
29: The Russians want new territories. Molotov speaks to the Supreme Soviet, about "an unsettled dispute", the question of Romanian Bessarabia.

June 1940
27: Romanians propose negotiations. Molotov replies that the demands are land concessions or war. New ultimatum from the Soviets to the Romanians.

28: The Red Army occupies Romanian Bessarabia and the northern part of Bukovina.


August 1940
30: The bombing of England continues; London is now bombed in retaliation for the bombing of Berlin; thus, the beginning of "the London Blitz."
: Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini dictated the so-called Second Vienna Award which forced Romania to hand over the Northern Transylvania (including the entire Maramureş and part of Crişana) to Hungary.

September 1940
6: King Carol abdicates the Romanian throne in favour of his son Michael while control of the government is taken by Marshal Antonescu.

October 1940
7: Germany invades Romania to block the Soviet Army and get access to valuable oil fields.

November 1940
23: Romania signs the Tripartite Pact.

So , we were the aggressors?

How is that?
Now really , while I appreciate a lot of your post... please , at least when you're talking about my country double check the info

Everything you said here about Romania is right,but all the Russian manipulation from 1945 until this days kept the truth away from other nations.

[Nemo1024]

Well, the Russian sources don't completely disagree with you.

Though, according to the article, the troops didn't enter the territory until after Bessarabia was officially given up by the Crown Council. The troops were in war mode on both sides on the border.

[niothor]

Well, the Russian sources don't completely disagree with you.

Though, according to the article, the troops didn't enter the territory until after Bessarabia was officially given up by the Crown Council. The troops were in war mode on both sides on the border.

And we give that up just because we were nice , not because there were two million Russian troops at our borders threatening us to take all over the country .

[bryant.coleman]

And we give that up just because we were nice , not because there were two million Russian troops at our borders threatening us to take all over the country .

This is just like the Serb vs Croat debate here. Funny. Neither of the sides will admit their mistakes, while trying to paint the other side as the bad guys. This debate is never going to end. 

[niothor]

And we give that up just because we were nice , not because there were two million Russian troops at our borders threatening us to take all over the country .

This is just like the Serb vs Croat debate here. Funny. Neither of the sides will admit their mistakes, while trying to paint the other side as the bad guys. This debate is never going to end. 

Not really. It was the same as when German forces entered half of central Europe and the allies didn't say a word.
Except that when Germans entered Romania the us started bombing Romanian cities (by mistake).

But , the debates will never end... that's why we have this subsection , right ? )))

[zolace]

I don't want to say that Russians are bad,Romanian did their mistake too and here i am talking about Stalin's Romanians puppets :Gheorghiu Dej and Ceausescu. I need days to explain exactly how much Stalin harmed Romania ,from the moment when Germans bombed several city's and the oil pomp's and forced Romania into war against Russia ,to the moment when Romanian people start the revolution in 1989.
And you all know  "the history is written by the victors" even if is not true .

[Kiki112]

I don't want to say that Russians are bad,Romanian did their mistake too and here i am talking about Stalin's Romanians puppets :Gheorghiu Dej and Ceausescu. I need days to explain exactly how much Stalin harmed Romania ,from the moment when Germans bombed several city's and the oil pomp's and forced Romania into war against Russia ,to the moment when Romanian people start the revolution in 1989.
And you all know  "the history is written by the victors" even if is not true .

it is true..

[niothor]

I don't want to say that Russians are bad,Romanian did their mistake too and here i am talking about Stalin's Romanians puppets :Gheorghiu Dej and Ceausescu. I need days to explain exactly how much Stalin harmed Romania ,from the moment when Germans bombed several city's and the oil pomp's and forced Romania into war against Russia ,to the moment when Romanian people start the revolution in 1989.
And you all know  "the history is written by the victors" even if is not true .

We did make a lot of mistakes also during that period so we're not some angels but the problem is that because of some idiots : hitler stalin ceausescu lots of people died.
And those types of leaders are still lurking in the shadows waiting for the right moment.

That's why i dislike Putin more than Mombama.

[Nemo1024]

What kind of leader would you like to see in Russia? What should his actions and decrees be?
Some argue that Putin is right for Russia at this point in history, that another Yeltsin would have brought Russia do complete ruin and disintegration.
And why does everyone forget Medvedev? I quite like him as a president. He managed to settle the border issue with Norway that no one before managed to agree upon for ca. 80 years before that.

[niothor]

What kind of leader would you like to see in Russia? What should his actions and decrees be?
Some argue that Putin is right for Russia at this point in history, that another Yeltsin would have brought Russia do complete ruin and disintegration.
And why does everyone forget Medvedev? I quite like him as a president. He managed to settle the border issue with Norway that no one before managed to agree upon for ca. 80 years before that.

Well your first question was answered by your third line ).
I would love to see a president who cares more about the corruption and the problems in Russian society. And you have to agree there is lot of work there.

I think that this whole show of superpowers flexing their muscles is so yesterday.
Of course , same for his counterparts.

[Nemo1024]

Hey, we found one point that we can agree on!

Medvedev is my favourite leader of Russia since... well, let's just say "since".
I think he is the only leader that during his whole period was working in positioning Russia as a diplomatic and agreeable country with only a subtle hint at fangs, should they become necessary. I hoped to see Medvedev for the second term, but Putin was hell-bent on coming back.

[bryant.coleman]

And you all know  "the history is written by the victors" even if is not true .

1. NATO vs Serbia
2. US vs Iraq
3. NATO vs Libya
4. US vs Vietnam
5. Allies vs Axis... how many more you need?

[Balthazar]

USA vs. Vietnam history is full of propaganda movies. In the real world it was a failure and humiliation for them... Despite the active use of weapons of mass destruction. Many people still suffering from its effects.