13 reasons why Jesus was NOT a substitionary atonement

[jdun]

Here is why I left Christianity (intellectually):

1.   Human sacrifice is forbidden (Lev 18:21, Lev 20:2, Dt 12:31, Dt 18:10, Hos 13:2)
2.   No man can die in the place for another man’s sin (Dt 24:15, Jer 31:30, Ez 3:18; 18:4, 18, 20, 31; 2 Ki 14:6)
3.   Ezekiel’s Temple (Ez 45)
4.   The religious sect who told us to believe in the blood-sacrifice of Messiah was the pagan Roman Catholic Church
5.   Thousands of years before Jesus, Gnostic Paganism taught about a salvation obtained through belief in the atoning sacrifice of a godman (significant literature evidence to support this, e.g. Timothy Freke's The Jesus Mysteries)
6.   The Hebrew Scriptures never mention the Messiah’s death as being a sacrifice for "sin"
7.   Jesus never mentions that his death will be an atoning sacrifice for sin
8.   Christianity is the "broad path" (Matt 7:13-15)
9.   Replacement theology
10.   The necessity of a blood sacrifice implies punishment (or hell) (Christianity's primary scare tactic)
11.    Jesus died for us, not instead of us
12.    The New Covenant as outlined by Jeremiah 31 is not yet realized
13.    Forgiveness of sins is contingent primarily on repentance and not on sacrifice (Ps 32:5, Ez 18:21)

[redwhite037]

Get over it, bro, that was over 2000 years ago. We're living in a different age now.

[Hazir]

Here is why I left Christianity (intellectually):

1.   Human sacrifice is forbidden (Lev 18:21, Lev 20:2, Dt 12:31, Dt 18:10, Hos 13:2)
2.   No man can die in the place for another man’s sin (Dt 24:15, Jer 31:30, Ez 3:18; 18:4, 18, 20, 31; 2 Ki 14:6)
3.   Ezekiel’s Temple (Ez 45)
4.   The religious sect who told us to believe in the blood-sacrifice of Messiah was the pagan Roman Catholic Church
5.   Thousands of years before Jesus, Gnostic Paganism taught about a salvation obtained through belief in the atoning sacrifice of a godman (significant literature evidence to support this, e.g. Timothy Freke's The Jesus Mysteries)
6.   The Hebrew Scriptures never mention the Messiah’s death as being a sacrifice for "sin"
7.   Jesus never mentions that his death will be an atoning sacrifice for sin
8.   Christianity is the "broad path" (Matt 7:13-15)
9.   Replacement theology
10.   The necessity of a blood sacrifice implies punishment (or hell) (Christianity's primary scare tactic)
11.    Jesus died for us, not instead of us
12.    The New Covenant as outlined by Jeremiah 31 is not yet realized
13.    Forgiveness of sins is contingent primarily on repentance and not on sacrifice (Ps 32:5, Ez 18:21)

So what? You don't need to to christian to be good man. Just live your life to the fullest be good man to others, don't harm anyone. You don't need to believe in some mighty god...

[sanjoea]

Its everyone's right to following specific policy

[Kenshin]

Good, you can be a Newborn Muslim instead. 

[Kiki112]

wait, so you left Christianity because human sacrifice is forbidden?

you really want to sacrifice human beings?

[spazzdla]

Religion was used to control people IMO.. It is completely losing it's grip on that as no one is about to mount a crusade on the pope's orders.  Well christanity anyways... anyone brought up were they can be kept ignorant believe they will get 40 virigans for strapping a bomb to themselves and listening to the masked man in the temple...  THIS IS NOT THE FAULT of the poor idividual that was brainwashed into believe this like the media suggests.. or shoves the idea down your throat.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

wait, so you left Christianity because human sacrifice is forbidden?

you really want to sacrifice human beings?

I'm all for namuh sacrifices.

[matt4054]

11.    Jesus died for us, not instead of us

I'm not a Christian but... that's not quite what John 3:16 says AFAIK

Maybe we should ask his wife?

[jdun]

wait, so you left Christianity because human sacrifice is forbidden?

you really want to sacrifice human beings?

I'm sorry, I didn't explain myself very well. My primary point is that the Bible has too many contradictions for me to be willing to intellectually accept it as a divinely inspired book. And the biggest of these contradictions centers around human/animal sacrifice. There are hundreds of other contradictions, but in my mind this one is the clincher.

[jdun]

11.    Jesus died for us, not instead of us

I'm not a Christian but... that's not quite what John 3:16 says AFAIK

Maybe we should ask his wife?

I didn't really explain that point. What I meant was that Jesus was willing to sacrifice his life for the cause of Love & Truth, RATHER than being human sacrifice to atone for sins. One could have the paradigm that he died to show us the way of how to live. (I don't really believe any of this anyway because I think the Jesus stories are entirely fiction, but being raised Christian, I feel I am forced to ponder different paradigms about the Bible).

Anyway, Jn 3:16 says absolutely nothing about Jesus dying as an atoning sacrifice. People just interpret it to mean that.

[Bit_Happy]

Here is why I left Christianity (intellectually):

1.   Human sacrifice is forbidden (Lev 18:21, Lev 20:2, Dt 12:31, Dt 18:10, Hos 13:2)
2.   No man can die in the place for another man’s sin (Dt 24:15, Jer 31:30, Ez 3:18; 18:4, 18, 20, 31; 2 Ki 14:6)
3.   Ezekiel’s Temple (Ez 45)
4.   The religious sect who told us to believe in the blood-sacrifice of Messiah was the pagan Roman Catholic Church
5.   Thousands of years before Jesus, Gnostic Paganism taught about a salvation obtained through belief in the atoning sacrifice of a godman (significant literature evidence to support this, e.g. Timothy Freke's The Jesus Mysteries)
6.   The Hebrew Scriptures never mention the Messiah’s death as being a sacrifice for "sin"
7.   Jesus never mentions that his death will be an atoning sacrifice for sin
8.   Christianity is the "broad path" (Matt 7:13-15)
9.   Replacement theology
10.   The necessity of a blood sacrifice implies punishment (or hell) (Christianity's primary scare tactic)
11.    Jesus died for us, not instead of us
12.    The New Covenant as outlined by Jeremiah 31 is not yet realized
13.    Forgiveness of sins is contingent primarily on repentance and not on sacrifice (Ps 32:5, Ez 18:21)

1. Much/Most of the New Testament was written 30, 35, even 40 years after Jesus died.

[Kiki112]

wait, so you left Christianity because human sacrifice is forbidden?

you really want to sacrifice human beings?

I'm sorry, I didn't explain myself very well. My primary point is that the Bible has too many contradictions for me to be willing to intellectually accept it as a divinely inspired book. And the biggest of these contradictions centers around human/animal sacrifice. There are hundreds of other contradictions, but in my mind this one is the clincher.

well that is true, you need to know that the bible was written around 400 BC in Constantinopple by a group of priests which put a lot of books together to form it..

because so many different books were merged into one we have so many contradictions

but I understand you, this bugs me too

[Bit_Happy]

What would Jesus say about BTC?
Are we "money changers?"

[Kiki112]

What would Jesus say about BTC?
Are we "money changers?"

he would say

freedom yes, goverments no
go bitcoin