bitcoin is not p2p

[Salmon1989]

Why do you keep saying communism and capitalism?
IMO, the p2p feature is not really related to that.

[1715490598]

1715490598

[1715490598]

1715490598

[1715490598]

1715490598

[Foxpup]

Can't tell if trolling, but just in case:

Bobos, you seem hopelessly confused about the meaning of certain words. Let me help you:
Anarchism is a political system without rulers, in which individuals govern themselves rather than be governed by others. Does not imply communism and is not incompatible with capitalism.
Bitcoins are units of currency. They are not data, though data may represent proof of ownership of a certain number of bitcoins by a particular person, or a transfer of bitcoins from one person to another. The amount of data needed to do so is in no way related to the number of bitcoins involved.
Capitalism is an economic system in property is privately owned and may be freely traded for other property or for money.
Communism is an economic system in which the means of production are publicly owned and the public has free access to the goods and services so produced. Does not imply anarchy.
Peer-to-peer is a decentralised computer network structure in which computers connect directly to other computers on the network rather than through a central server. Has nothing whatsoever to do with any political or economic ideology. Network resources are typically privately owned and funded, and are not necessarily shared freely.

None of what you're saying makes the least bit of sense.

[Gervais]

Bitcoin is literally peer to peer. It's one of its main benefits.

[giantblckdld]

Im not trolling. You forget to mention DEMOCRACY! Dont you like democracy?

Democracy is not an economic system. It is a politic ideal. In fact it doesn't exist because it is too easy to corrupt in any system.
This ideal existed once for few years in Athens but it has been corrupted and we never got close to it since.

Today we use the term Democracy instead of Plutocracy (the actual system).

You are wrong. p2p has political and economic impact. It is against capitalism. Think about the millions of music and movies downloads. Anarchy is a system without the need of a central authority. Network resources can be anything: software, video files, audio files, images, e-books and of course COINS!!! Bitcoins are DATA. And like any other data can be shared equally through the network. Bitcoin IS NOT 100% P2P!!! Only some functions are p2p. Not all functions.

Yes p2p has indeed political and economic impact but we cannot say that it is an economic system in itself because it can fit in different system. It is flexible.

Bitcoin is a lot of things and it is easy to get confused. It is an idea, an invention, a p2p network, a payment system and to finish, a monetary unit.

It is all these things at the same time and you cannot take just one of them to define Bitcoin.

 

[shorena]

-snip-
Anarchy is a system without the need of a central authority.
-snip-

Anarchy as in greek anarchia which translates to "without rulers" this however does not mean that there are no rules. There is a big difference between a person or a group or persons setting rules (thus beeing rulers) or a mutual aceptance of a certain set of rules.
I disagree with Foxpup that this contradicts capitalism (as in you own what you own and can trade it to anyone you like).

Democracy is not an economic system. It is a politic ideal. In fact it doesn't exist because it is too easy to corrupt in any system.
This ideal existed once for few years in Athens but it has been corrupted and we never got close to it since.

It was far from ideal in Athens, mainly because only citizen could vote and thus the minority.

Perfect democracy (as in consensus not majority) is the same as perfect anarchy. If everyone has the same rights you dont have anyone above you and thus no ruler.

But lets get back to the topic, which is p2p not political systems if I remember correctly.

p2p has political and economic impact.

Everything of relevance has impact.

It is against capitalism.

p2p itself is not against anything. If you think so, please explain why. Because the way you just say "its like this" we can not argue with you.

Think about the millions of music and movies downloads.

Thats refering to the bittorrent protocol I assume? What about them? They changed the way to music industry thinks about distrubuting music and the same downloads will revolutionize the film industry. The current distribution system is outdated. Why cant I pay x amount of currency to watch HBO from e.g. Jamaica? Or just the show I want to see? This makes no sense with the internet.

Anarchy is a system without the need of a central authority. Network resources can be anything: software, video files, audio files, images, e-books and of course COINS!!! Bitcoins are DATA. And like any other data can be shared equally through the network.

The blockchain is shared equially amoung all full nodes. The "coins" are allways in the blockchain you only hold a private key, which is the right to spend certain coins.

Bitcoin IS NOT 100% P2P!!! Only some functions are p2p. Not all functions.

Which functions are not? Why are they not p2p? What do you think is p2p?

[Lamigo]

To be honest, OP's definition of p2p is kind of strange...

[edutBTC]

OP is mixing up the p2p and bitcoin

[shorena]

OK. Read this

"The following essay describes the emergence, or expansion, of a specific type of relational dynamic, which I call peer to peer. It’s a form of human network-based organization which rests upon the free participation of equipotent partners, engaged in the production of common resources, without recourse to monetary compensation as key motivating factor, and not organized according to hierarchical methods of command and control. It creates a Commons, rather than a market or a state, and relies on social relations to allocate resources rather than on pricing mechanisms or managerial commands. "

http://p2pfoundation.net/What_this_essay_is_about

Ok, nice quote. Bitcoin fits perfectly. The blockchain is a common good, everyone can use it. Well not those without internet, but that is true for most p2p networks today. Bitcoin relies on social relations, on the people who mine and the people who use it as a currency to allocate resources. Every full node is equipotent. I still dont see your the point.

[shorena]

No the blockchain is not a common good. The coins are always in the blockchain but they dont shared equally.

Why is the blockchain not a common good? You can download it for free. Anyone with an internetconnection can.

IF all coins where shared equally... I understand now that this is your problem... they would have no value. If there are 1000 people who have bitcoin and everyone of those 1000 has the same amount of bitcoins, whats the point? And if person 1001 comes along, does everyone give a part away? You could probably make a coin like this, but thats not a currency. I can not transfer value like this.

[shorena]

My idea is similar to ancient Lycurgus of Sparta monetary system. Money is not for holding it. It is only to make a transaction and then go back to the "warehouse".

But if everyone has the same you can not give it away, because it would not be the same amount for everyone. Dont you understand that money only works if its possible for 2 people to have different amount of money? Money is the idea that I have something that I can trade for something else tomorrow or next week or next year. But with your "everyone has the same" idea, I can never trade it for anything and thus its not money.

Edit:

"the iron money could not be used anywhere else in Greece."

"It was now impossible to buy foreign goods and no cargo of merchandise would enter a Spartan harbor, no teacher of rhetoric trod Laconian soil, no begging seer, no pimp, no maker of gold and silver ornaments – because there was no coined money."

http://www.mikeanderson.biz/2009/06/lycurgus-spartan-monetary-system-and.html

Sounds like a stupid system

[shorena]

There is no file sharing of coins. p2p means equal sharing of data. Bitcoins are data. The main structure is capitalistic.

Bitcoins are not the data you download. You download the Blockchain, the list of transactions. I have a complete copy of the Blockchain on my computer I share it everyone that runs bitcoin core and is conncted to me.

[mably]

Where is the camera?

[Mobius7]

Where is the camera?

 
I could not understand your point...

[TrailingComet]

Dude, you need to get back to the drawing board pronto

[shorena]

OK. We have different opinions about what p2p network is.

Not so sure, that is possible.

Dude, you need to get back to the drawing board pronto

This. Bobos15 make a new coin. You dont have to write any code yet, just think clearly what this new coin would be and what properties it should have. If you want equal coins for everyone, how would you allow spending? etc. Maybe we just dont understand eachother because english isnt our native language. Maybe your idea is the new top coin, who knows.

[maurya78]

If you believe that, I suggest you go back to your bitcoin intro tutorials

[shorena]

For example:

I have 1 share=1000$ And shorena has 1 share=1000$. I buy something from shorena and i pay 50$. So now i have 950$ and shorena has 1050$. The next time we are online both will have (950+1050)/2 $.
Money is not something you can hold it. It is only a tool to make a transaction.

So you get something from my for free? Well unless I buy something else for 50$ teh same "online time"... Why should I give you lets say 50 keys TF2 for 50$ if the next day my 50$ are gone and my keys TF2 are gone.

[shorena]

If only 1 person is online then he will has (950+1050)/1 $.

Hmm ok, but when Im alone, I cant do anything with it anyway. Lets go back to you buy something from me. You buy these keys, I get 50$. Now you have more (keys) and I have more (1050 now). If I understand you correctly: the next day you still have more (keys), but I dont (1000). So if I want to give you a gift I dont need this "money", why bother?

[mably]

Where is the camera?

 
I could not understand your point...

It's just that I was feeling like being in an hidden camera prank while reading this thread 

[shorena]

The share it will exists only online. When you disconnect, the share and all money will erased.

I dont understand this. So I wake up in the morning, make coffee, start my PC and start bobosCOIN15-core then what? I get 1 share?

Shorena can buy something else from someone with the same procedure.

But maybe I dont need something today... So I can only sell when I want to buy something that is worth ~ the same?