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Author Topic: Bitcoin as property; btc to usd is a refund, why money transmitter licenses?  (Read 1604 times)
jonald_fyookball
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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political


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April 15, 2014, 09:52:29 PM
 #21

If I mine an alt coin then send it to an exchange and sell it first for bitcoin and then sell bitcoin for litecoin then how should i consider this for my "income tax" for mining it ??
I wouldn't.  Anything you mine is not taxable until it is converted for dollars (and usually not even then).  (IANAL and especially IANYL).

And this is why it is a very bad idea to try to get advice from random participants in an internet forum.  Most of them just make up answers that they like the sound of rather than informing you of the facts.  That's a great way to get yourself into trouble.  Somehow, I doubt the IRS will accept "But BitchicksHusband said it was ok?" as an explanation of why you didn't pay the required taxes.

Specifically in IRS Notice 2014-21:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf?utm_source=3.31.2014+Tax+Alert&utm_campaign=3.31.14+Tax+Alert&utm_medium=email

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Section 4. FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency resulting from those activities?

A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines" virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income , for more information on taxable income.




Re:bad advice, sort of true, but then again, when misinformation is posted, there are usually several posters ready willing and able to jump in to save the day as you just did. (I was about to say something similar,
Although you did it better than I would have with the link and everything.) ,...my point is, a forum CAN be a good place to learn if one uses the tool properly.

murraypaul
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April 15, 2014, 09:55:28 PM
 #22

Not if the 2 bitcoin merchants are okay with accepting eachothers returned merchandise. If you bought a bitcoin for $450 from another merchant and needed to refund it to me because I'm almost out of product, I would not mind refunding you $500.
That isn't refunding.
A refund is when someone returns the funds you gave them.

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Look at gold, you can go to one coin shop for $1000 an oz, and 3 days later sell it back to another coin shop for $1200.

Exactly, you are selling it to another shop, they aren't refunding it.

BTC: 16TgAGdiTSsTWSsBDphebNJCFr1NT78xFW
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jubalix
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April 15, 2014, 10:20:19 PM
 #23

I was thinking about this, if Bitcoin is treated as property in the USA, then why the need for money transmitter licenses for exchanges based/operating in the US?

If you think about it.. as an exchange you're taking back a product "Bitcoin" (property) and "refunding" for USD. Wouldn't every store, which has a refund policy, need a money transmitter license?

this "contradiction" has been touched on here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=74.0

Admitted Practicing Lawyer::BTC/Crypto Specialist. B.Engineering/B.Laws

https://www.binance.com/?ref=10062065
cryptoanarchist
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April 16, 2014, 12:19:00 AM
 #24

I was thinking about this, if Bitcoin is treated as property in the USA, then why the need for money transmitter licenses for exchanges based/operating in the US?

If you think about it.. as an exchange you're taking back a product "Bitcoin" (property) and "refunding" for USD. Wouldn't every store, which has a refund policy, need a money transmitter license?

The government clearly wants it both ways. Cryptocurrencies are a real bitch for them because there is no one to point a gun at and make it stop.

I'm grumpy!!
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