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Author Topic: BitTalk.TV Interview with Zhou Tong of Bitcoinica.com  (Read 3695 times)
cypherdoc
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January 18, 2012, 11:23:24 PM
 #21

With the big drop we just had I think my question is more relevant than ever.

Changing my opinion on Zhou after watching this manipulation...

I will not be using bitcoinica, and I have lost NO money, but I can see how this is hurting us..

+1  It's too early for the market.  Or at least get rid of the high leverage options.

-1

All that happened was a few uberbulls got taught a lesson, and a few shorters got fucked as well on the rebound spike up.  Saw the upspike coming when the * popped up on the sell side down at 5.2.  

We now have a higher portion of traders who are capable of not overleveraging themselves.  This is good for bitcoin.

+0   I understand the point and I think it is good that people have the option to use Bitcoinica (after all, it's a free market right?).  I also think people should be able to use drugs if they wish, but that doesn't mean that people using drugs is good for society.  It's good to have the choice, but not necessarily good to exercise that choice to commit to action.

While I don't consider myself a pessimistic person (I actually am one of the greatest optimists you can find), I do not trust the Bitcoin community in general to be careful with a Pandora's Box like Bitcoinica.  By careful, I mean responsible -- I don't trust that the majority of people are aware of the potential impact that their individual actions can have on the entire market. 

My main problem is that it aids in pure speculation.  Bitcoin is treated by most as a gambling opportunity first and an evolved social development second.  But, Bitcoin's intended purpose was to be an evolved social development first and a gambling opportunity, well, never (at least it isn't implied in the white paper).

Basically, I'm just saying that the motivation that drives many users into Bitcoin is antithetical to the intended purpose of Bitcoin.  Of course, one could argue this by saying that it's in alignment with Bitcoin's intended purpose simply because Bitcoin is used.  I think at a certain level this is true, but at a systemic level it is not.  All systems require balance to achieve homeostasis, but Bitcoinica really fucks with the balance of systemic input and output.  It's a threat to destabilization.

are you the same "the joint" who was whining about "old engineers" betting scheme and pumping up "phantomcircuits" mistake?

are you kidding me?  well said Man.
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January 19, 2012, 09:13:13 PM
 #22

With the big drop we just had I think my question is more relevant than ever.

Changing my opinion on Zhou after watching this manipulation...

I will not be using bitcoinica, and I have lost NO money, but I can see how this is hurting us..

+1  It's too early for the market.  Or at least get rid of the high leverage options.

-1

All that happened was a few uberbulls got taught a lesson, and a few shorters got fucked as well on the rebound spike up.  Saw the upspike coming when the * popped up on the sell side down at 5.2.  

We now have a higher portion of traders who are capable of not overleveraging themselves.  This is good for bitcoin.

+0   I understand the point and I think it is good that people have the option to use Bitcoinica (after all, it's a free market right?).  I also think people should be able to use drugs if they wish, but that doesn't mean that people using drugs is good for society.  It's good to have the choice, but not necessarily good to exercise that choice to commit to action.

While I don't consider myself a pessimistic person (I actually am one of the greatest optimists you can find), I do not trust the Bitcoin community in general to be careful with a Pandora's Box like Bitcoinica.  By careful, I mean responsible -- I don't trust that the majority of people are aware of the potential impact that their individual actions can have on the entire market. 

My main problem is that it aids in pure speculation.  Bitcoin is treated by most as a gambling opportunity first and an evolved social development second.  But, Bitcoin's intended purpose was to be an evolved social development first and a gambling opportunity, well, never (at least it isn't implied in the white paper).

Basically, I'm just saying that the motivation that drives many users into Bitcoin is antithetical to the intended purpose of Bitcoin.  Of course, one could argue this by saying that it's in alignment with Bitcoin's intended purpose simply because Bitcoin is used.  I think at a certain level this is true, but at a systemic level it is not.  All systems require balance to achieve homeostasis, but Bitcoinica really fucks with the balance of systemic input and output.  It's a threat to destabilization.

are you the same "the joint" who was whining about "old engineers" betting scheme and pumping up "phantomcircuits" mistake?

are you kidding me?  well said Man.

Thanks?  Smiley

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January 19, 2012, 10:37:16 PM
 #23

+0   I understand the point and I think it is good that people have the option to use Bitcoinica (after all, it's a free market right?).  I also think people should be able to use drugs if they wish, but that doesn't mean that people using drugs is good for society.  It's good to have the choice, but not necessarily good to exercise that choice to commit to action.

While I don't consider myself a pessimistic person (I actually am one of the greatest optimists you can find), I do not trust the Bitcoin community in general to be careful with a Pandora's Box like Bitcoinica.  By careful, I mean responsible -- I don't trust that the majority of people are aware of the potential impact that their individual actions can have on the entire market. 

My main problem is that it aids in pure speculation.  Bitcoin is treated by most as a gambling opportunity first and an evolved social development second.  But, Bitcoin's intended purpose was to be an evolved social development first and a gambling opportunity, well, never (at least it isn't implied in the white paper).

Basically, I'm just saying that the motivation that drives many users into Bitcoin is antithetical to the intended purpose of Bitcoin.  Of course, one could argue this by saying that it's in alignment with Bitcoin's intended purpose simply because Bitcoin is used.  I think at a certain level this is true, but at a systemic level it is not.  All systems require balance to achieve homeostasis, but Bitcoinica really fucks with the balance of systemic input and output.  It's a threat to destabilization.

Excessive volatility does cause destabilization, but the level of volatility is stabilized because those that cause it lose.  Once they've lost enough money that they learn to not overleverage, they can join the rest of us in sanityland.  In the mean time, people who understand this (including outsider observers looking for an easy way to profit off this market) will make lots of money adding stability.  The more money there is to be made, the more we will attract the investors necessary to grow this thing to a scale where it could actually be used by a medium sized business like thinkgeek or newegg.  Yes, this involves chewing up newbie speculators, but I can say from experience they won't learn not to gamble like that until they take real losses.  Either that, or they take enough of a hit that they walk away and fail to capitalize on their experience.  That's the saddest part, but we won't build a new economy without being willing to take some risks.  So let those that can handle managing risk manage risk.  Perhaps a community effort to warn new users Bitcoinica is not a toy is warranted, but such effort can't really be undertaken without dragging out all the trolls who like to scream OMG! Bitcoinica is the spawn of Satan!

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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January 27, 2012, 06:11:51 PM
 #24

Any updates? I'm very curious to what Zhou has got to say.

https://www.bitbuy.nl - Koop eenvoudig, snel en goedkoop bitcoins bij Bitbuy!
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January 27, 2012, 11:45:04 PM
 #25

I read it again and again but I don't understand it:
In the mean time, people who understand this (including outsider observers looking for an easy way to profit off this market) will make lots of money adding stability.

How is Bitcoinica a tool that gives a monetary incentive to add stability? Or did I get you wrong?

Also I often read the hope that once we have much more trade volume over at Gox, the price will fluctuate less. Forex trades T$/d. We are at 100k$/d. Even G$/d would be peanuts for big forex traders. They would still play the market.

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