[POLL] Should PandaCoin (PND) add PoS?

[othe]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131940.0

This for example was fixed in the kernel of peercoin by using entropy from the PoW blocks.

You can read more about the fundamental problems here: http://blog.ethereum.org/2014/01/15/slasher-a-punitive-proof-of-stake-algorithm/

[jparsley]

Sounds like a good idea

[pandacoin-official]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131940.0

This for example was fixed in the kernel of peercoin by using entropy from the PoW blocks.

You can read more about the fundamental problems here: http://blog.ethereum.org/2014/01/15/slasher-a-punitive-proof-of-stake-algorithm/

Interesting. Thanks for bringing this up.

Doing a hybrid of both protocols is indeed possible but harder to execute. I'll be taking a look at how blackcoin accomplished being pure PoS.

[othe]

They dont, they ignored all questions regarding those issues in the thread.


I dont see how an hybrid is more complicated, peercoin does it, novacoin too and blackcoin is just a novacoin fork which removed the PoW part...

Personally i wouldn't run after the next best hype.

PS: Peercoin still uses centralized checkpoints to fix other issues, its not decentralized at all.
PS2: I guess merge mining in your position makes the most sense, however todo this successfully alot of infrastructure needs to be built

[Joesixpack9000]

100% Proof of Stake combined with the addition of multipools that expends 100% of gains from other coins buying PND would is an attractive option to implement.

This coin was fairly launched (0% premine, no stealth launches or insta-mined) and the distribution of the coin is one of the most decentralized and spread out compared to other PoS coins.

There's a niche market for PND with that coin structure and inherent marketable qualities that should make it one of the forerunners out of the POS coins in the near distant future.

[orrazib]

A good reason to have PND fully POS is that the hashrate doesn't have to be split between mining PND and the multipool

We can get more hashrate for the multipool without having to sacrifice anything

I am not sure what merging with mining doge is exactly so I wont comment on it

Having people to choose between mining PND directly and getting it through the multipool is simply counterproductive

[jommy99]

Mintcoin removes PoW to fix potential security issues

The Mintcoin team has today released a mandatory wallet update which removes proof-of-work from the coin entirely, meaning Mintcoin is now 100% proof-of-stake.
http://coinjoint.info/mintcoin-removes-pow-fix-potential-security-issues/

seems Rat4 of BC explains how pure PoS is safest for them and mintcoin, other ideas bantered around too. Zeitcoin is following suit I believe and goin pure PoS.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551861.0

[i8]

I'm curious in merge mining, but are we actually in talks with doge folks? are they on board at all? does that mean we can rely on doge miners to keep the pnd network going, and people who really want pnd can just mine on the multipool?

[pandacoin-official]

I'm curious in merge mining, but are we actually in talks with doge folks? are they on board at all?

It's more efficient to first determine what we actually want. Splitting efforts would be counterproductive right now.

does that mean we can rely on doge miners to keep the pnd network going, and people who really want pnd can just mine on the multipool?

Since it's our network we are also responsible for keeping it going. Since we would be receiving hashrate out of goodwill and from people setting up the appropriate/patched pool software even more so.

[jommy99]

Just some further thoughts on Pandacoin going PoS
The Mintcoin wallet has some nice features now.
These would be nice enhancements for our wallet too perhaps
From Mintcoin  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=450381.14020

New wallet properly sorts all transactions by date as a default. It used to sort them by status. That is why orphan blocks always appeared on top.
New wallet has option to go to Mintcoin homepage under Help menu. Now you can quickly reach Mintcoin FAQ  Cheesy .

They are close on what looks like a well designed and secure PoS Android wallet, I am watching closely and have been doing my own android development, so who knows Wink

[spankyminer]

POS is the way to go!

[Joesixpack9000]

Got a question for the devs: when does the poll conclude?

It appears there's strong support for PoS implementation.

[xfr]

They dont, they ignored all questions regarding those issues in the thread.
I dont see how an hybrid is more complicated, peercoin does it, novacoin too and blackcoin is just a novacoin fork which removed the PoW part...

Personally i wouldn't run after the next best hype.

PS: Peercoin still uses centralized checkpoints to fix other issues, its not decentralized at all.
PS2: I guess merge mining in your position makes the most sense, however todo this successfully alot of infrastructure needs to be built

It is now generally accepted that PoW+PoS is in fact less secure than pure PoS. The reason for that is the low PoW reward typically cause a low PoW difficulty and a pure PoW 51% attack is in fact quite possible despite the widespread false claim that "you need 51% of stake and 51% of hashrate to mount a 51% attack on hybid coins". I had first hand proof of that when running the PND multipool - there were no less than four instances where the pool accidentally managed to mount a 51% attack on BottleCaps against Cryptsy. I still have the transaction and block hashes to prove that and screenshot from the reverted CAP deposits on Cryptsy which are now permanently stuck in the deposit list.

Merged mining requires new infrastructure, as you say, in particular it would be quite interesting to patch MPOS for merged mining. This brings more added value than just hopping on the pure PoS hype train in my opinion, but on the other hand, it seems that PoS only coins do work decently well if they are well distributed. PND had absolutely great distribution in the first month but got major concentration afterwards which is a reason for concern. However, the multipool can help redistribute coins but as the price rises it is increasingly more difficult to convince new miners to join, and there is a real risk that PoS coins will at some point stall when the hashrate of their supporting multipool declines.

Merged mining could bring support from DOGE and ultimately, from LTC as well: if PND merges with DOGE, and DOGE merges with LTC later then it becomes possible to mine all 3 coins at the same time.

[creamynebula]

I would like to voice that I support merged mining, it would be something new and fairly unique in the way xfr described, while becoming a proof-of-stake coin is just copying what other coins that became valuable (in price) recently did...

In my opinion its a bit shortsighted, the bigger pro of PoS is the fact that together with our multipool it means that the price of PND will rise faster than it is rising now and thats about it... The coin could as a result become a target for people wanting quick profit on that property, like what happened with blackcoin - when price was low in the sense that their multipool could climb through the orders pretty fast, a lot of people bought blackcoin, then when the price and size of the sell orders became big enough for the multipool, a lot of people went on and sold their coins for this big profit.
I have nothing against any of this, but for those wanting in on that game the point is that there is already blackcoin, there are already other coins copying it too, none of them seem to aim to be used as a CURRENCY though if thats how they work. What is the goal of PND in the end? If it is to last and become useful, of which my personal example of currently useful cryptocurrencies are BTC and DOGE, then inovation, and inovation without the goal of creating artificial bubbles should be pursued.

I'm with the option of merged mining with DOGE through a pool as described... This would be new and a lot of fun, and I say that as someone whose miner is a 25kh/s APU, if I just wanted to make some usd my best option would be if the coin became proof-of-stake, since i'm here since the first days, and in my humble opinion that seem to be the goal of the many who want PoS. They want to use their holdings and invest further and make a profit, which again, I have nothing against, but there are other PoS+multipool coins around, the only difference it seems is that some people already hold PND and not these other coins, and thats why they want PND to go PoS

[pandacoin-official]

Let the shitcoin die. For god's sake.
You guys like to throw money in the toilet dont you ?

Thank you for the constructive and thought out contribution.

[pandacoin-official]

Voting will close in 5 days (29 April). The option with the most votes will be worked on.

[jox]

I would like to voice that I support merged mining, it would be something new and fairly unique in the way xfr described, while becoming a proof-of-stake coin is just copying what other coins that became valuable (in price) recently did...

In my opinion its a bit shortsighted, the bigger pro of PoS is the fact that together with our multipool it means that the price of PND will rise faster than it is rising now and thats about it... The coin could as a result become a target for people wanting quick profit on that property, like what happened with blackcoin - when price was low in the sense that their multipool could climb through the orders pretty fast, a lot of people bought blackcoin, then when the price and size of the sell orders became big enough for the multipool, a lot of people went on and sold their coins for this big profit.
I have nothing against any of this, but for those wanting in on that game the point is that there is already blackcoin, there are already other coins copying it too, none of them seem to aim to be used as a CURRENCY though if thats how they work. What is the goal of PND in the end? If it is to last and become useful, of which my personal example of currently useful cryptocurrencies are BTC and DOGE, then inovation, and inovation without the goal of creating artificial bubbles should be pursued.

I'm with the option of merged mining with DOGE through a pool as described... This would be new and a lot of fun, and I say that as someone whose miner is a 25kh/s APU, if I just wanted to make some usd my best option would be if the coin became proof-of-stake, since i'm here since the first days, and in my humble opinion that seem to be the goal of the many who want PoS. They want to use their holdings and invest further and make a profit, which again, I have nothing against, but there are other PoS+multipool coins around, the only difference it seems is that some people already hold PND and not these other coins, and thats why they want PND to go PoS

+100... I agree with this...
I voted 'Bring merged mining with DOGE instead!'

[TheDownvot]

It is my opinion that PoS, in the long run, will be a detriment to any coin that uses it. Because of this I whole-heartedly support merged mining with Dogecoin.

Unlike LTC (who tried to get DOGE to merge into their block chain, in a very unfriendly way), the Doge community, I think, would actively support any coin that decides to merge mine with them. This could be a huge opportunity to PND because it will expose the coin to the massive DOGE community.

[Thrillho]

It is my opinion that PoS, in the long run, will be a detriment to any coin that uses it. Because of this I whole-heartedly support merged mining with Dogecoin.

Unlike LTC (who tried to get DOGE to merge into their block chain, in a very unfriendly way), the Doge community, I think, would actively support any coin that decides to merge mine with them. This could be a huge opportunity to PND because it will expose the coin to the massive DOGE community.

+1

PND community are all shibes. Born from the same wellspring.

Also, time is running out. I sense it's soon going to be "merge or die" for a great many scrypt coins. Better to be ahead of that tsunami.

[orrazib]

It is my opinion that PoS, in the long run, will be a detriment to any coin that uses it. Because of this I whole-heartedly support merged mining with Dogecoin.

Unlike LTC (who tried to get DOGE to merge into their block chain, in a very unfriendly way), the Doge community, I think, would actively support any coin that decides to merge mine with them. This could be a huge opportunity to PND because it will expose the coin to the massive DOGE community.

As of yet Doge community is not supporting us which i am guessing is from the lack of understanding of what merged mining is. To be fair even a lot of people from the PND community dont necessarily understand what merged mining is