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Author Topic: "Merchant acceptance is NEGATIVE for bitcoin"  (Read 4243 times)
notbatman
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April 19, 2014, 11:39:50 AM
 #41

merchant acceptance implies a positive transmission of bitcoins. your post is conceptually negative by definition.

I'll go back and read it just to be sure  Wink
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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notbatman
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April 19, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
 #42

ok i read the post, why would market capitalization drive the price down?
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April 19, 2014, 12:23:52 PM
 #43

Consider this example: if you buy oil in dollars, even if the seller converts the dollars to a different currency a thousandth of a second later, you are both contributing to the demand for dollars.

Middle Eastern countries use their oil wealth to buy arms from western countries chiefly the US. They also hoard US treasuries. So most of the money flows back to the west.

Another difference is that you can't buy oil using any currency other than the US dollar. So this underwrites the US dollar. Iran tried to switch to the Euro but that has only led to sanctions.
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April 20, 2014, 09:56:46 PM
 #44

How do total sales of goods/services in Bitcoins compare to the number of new Bitcoins created, per month?
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April 20, 2014, 10:57:49 PM
 #45

The premise is faulty. Bitcoin's price going down is not negative for bitcoin. I'd much rather have plenty of merchants accepting bitcoin and have it valued at $1 per BTC, than almost no vendors and have it valued at $1000 per BTC.

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April 21, 2014, 01:33:48 AM
 #46

When the first few merchants start accepting bitcoins and directly exchanges them into USD or whatever it might not boost the price. But when more and more accept it there'll be an interest amongst merchants to hold the bitcoins they have.

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April 21, 2014, 01:40:30 AM
 #47

Short term negative. Long term positive.

Why?

Yes the merchants for the most part sell the bitcoin right away. That is the short term negative.

But the more merchants there are, the more reason there will be for people to hold bitcoin. Right now it is just speculation or enthusiasts. But when people understand that bitcoin is widely accepted, they'll accept bitcoin in trade and hang on to it until they need to buy something. That's the positive.

Long term a fraction of a bitcoin (or more) being held by each of a few billion people is worth more than whether overstock.com holds on to their 2000 bitcoin or sells it today.





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April 21, 2014, 02:02:53 AM
 #48

Just finished reading through this thread. This is the most important and concise post:



Good read

Bitcoin is a forgone conclusion at this point, and even if not bitcoin, crypto currency being the dominant medium of exchange. Fiat by central govs simply cannot compete on any level.

Central Govs are so inefficient its hard to know where to start. The reason being [the power to] tax. This power and enforcing it, makes the preservation of self the central function of Govt under layered under the guise of much on the doctrine of public good, eg roads schools/education, police force etc.

The power to tax is dealt a near fatal blow by BTC as tax jurisdiction and legal jurisdictions will be arbitraged to near zero by almost instant capital flight of Cryptos.

But this is not the most powerful aspect of cryptos. Rather Crypto's allow niche provision of goods services in a mass production way, further there is no off or on for the Bitcoin "work force". The economies of scale achieved by are far more nuance, powerful and encompassing that the crude budget, interest rate, bond issuance, QE, etc etc. Fiat simply can't compete with the ways BTC can flow in and out of opportunity. If you remember the last scene in the first total recall movie, the current economy is like us dying out on mars with nothing breathe or in the subsections of society where they can turn the air of at will. BTC has just given air to everyone, en~masse.

The path to uptake may face serious resistance. Yes the internet took media which is powerful, but it not he same as money. Money is power, by tax and qe, and those in power [not you] are not only accustomed to it but that's their only conduit to means to live, that's all they can do. Fortunately the war was over before the first shot was fired becuase ... maths. No amount of power changes maths. Crypto is maths.


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April 21, 2014, 02:37:27 AM
 #49

I watched a talk on the economy between Peter Schiff and Joe Rogan; at the end they discuss Bitcoin, and Peter shares his criticism. He says, essentially, that the more merchants that are accepting bitcoin the more the price of bitcoin will fall, because they instantly convert it back to fiat (thus putting in SELL orders). So customers who own bitcoins and use them actually sell them onto the market, indirectly. This wouldn't be a problem if bitcoin was the main currency for merchants, customers, suppliers, etc, but that is not on the realistic horizon yet.

So, I was wondering, could this be part of the reason why prices have consistently gone down as merchant acceptance has gone up?

Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IHU42j3evQ (@2:36:15)

I think there may be something to this. He's referring to the velocity of bitcoin, which I've seen surprisingly little discussion of around here (I guess not everyone is an economist, eh?) (Nor am I, but I dabble in it.)

A higher velocity effectively increases the effective money supply of bitcoin just as if there were more bitcoins. Some of the previous posters here are wrong in imagining that it would have no effect. It is a mundane phenomena in economics and the effect is well known. If you wanted the price of bitcoin to skyrocket, convince most people with bitcoins to simply hold them and just let people fight for the remaining few being offered for sale. Doing the opposite - flooding the market with a high volume of bitcoin sales - effectively depresses the price. So I think that is part of the reason for the decline the past few months, albeit a minor one at this point.

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