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Author Topic: MyBitcoin has started spending our stolen coins  (Read 9548 times)
piotr_n
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January 09, 2012, 06:31:05 PM
 #21

Yes. Do you have the time to track all the addresses and hope one lands at an identifiable source? I don't.  And I doubt any law enforcement agency has the time and knowledge.  But if someone here has the time and can collect enough information, maybe it can go somewhere - finally?
I didn't loose that much, no Smiley

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westkybitcoins
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January 09, 2012, 06:33:47 PM
 #22

Even if they are spending the unclaimed coins (which I don't believe) it's still stealing our money in a daylight, isn't it?

Yes. Do you have the time to track all the addresses and hope one lands at an identifiable source? I don't.  And I doubt any law enforcement agency has the time and knowledge.  But if someone here has the time and can collect enough information, maybe it can go somewhere - finally?

Those with enough vested interest but not enough time or skill could always put up another bounty.

There probably won't be any way to prove the identifiable address is the thief (and it might not be), and at best you would just have to hope the owner would be willing to tell who it was "up the chain" that transferred the coins to him.

Still, there is a possibility that any revealed info might prove useful.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
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In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
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ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
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gnar1ta$
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January 09, 2012, 06:40:05 PM
 #23

I only had a couple coins there and may still have an address - I'll have to check later.  I never thought to check the balance after the "payout".  Maybe there is a way to start a somewhat anonymous collection of know addresses and check the activity?

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
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January 09, 2012, 07:36:30 PM
 #24

MyBitcoin having been a scam was obvious, but it's good to finally remove all doubt. If MyBitcoin really had been hacked, there wouldn't be any old coins stored in their receiving addresses; they would've either been transferred to a different address by the attacker, or transferred to a different address by MyBitcoin's operator, a long time ago. Unfortunately, this transaction probably involves coins being sent to a coin-mixing service, rather than directly to something linked to an identity.

(Also interesting: those addresses weren't completely cleaned out; they still have a few coins in them, after the recent withdrawals.)
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January 09, 2012, 10:37:43 PM
 #25

Keep at it.

Some graph analysis people might be able to find irregularities, even in coin mixing services, that can be tracked. Also, it would be good if exchanges comment whether any target addresses proven dirty are theirs.

I never had a wallet with them, but that doesn't make me a bit less angry about it. Tracking down these MyBitcoin operators would make a good example and possibly reduce the incentive for fraud. It's a real service to all of us.

These people are the real enemies of the Bitcoin community. Get them! Angry
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January 09, 2012, 10:42:39 PM
 #26

Problem is, not much tracking can be done without cooperation of some of the major exchanges and retailers, and none of them will participate or it would alienate a large part of the Bitcoin crowd from their customer base (too many people here who are absolutely paranoid about their privacy).

But, I'll still cheer on any efforts in that area!
piotr_n
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January 09, 2012, 10:49:22 PM
 #27

let's face it. the guy who invented mybitcoin and later turned it into the scum is not stupid, so i wouldn't count too much on him making a stupid mistake.
at the other hand, if he was perfectly smart, he'd have cleared all the addresses before shutting down the service.
so he obviously makes mistakes from time to time Smiley

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January 09, 2012, 11:36:49 PM
 #28

The story about some alleged evil doer who managed to withdraw money from mybitcoin using a double spending method - it was all bullshit and we can prove it today.

I have been monitoring some of the addresses owned by mybitcoin, to which I used to transfer my money.
Some of them still had some coins, even after they allowed people to withdraw the "remaining" 49%.
That was weird already back then...

But recently they started spending the remaining 51%.
Check out these two - both addresses used to belong to my old mybitcoin wallet:
197oprrx1H4u6dNSDCavhB247YmBwGuWa8
1Fv74A11EWzekD5g1oWEdKkBvm6sAvJEuN

Interesting, hmm?

Nice sleuthing!
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January 10, 2012, 01:59:42 AM
 #29

There was a podcast on agoristradio a while back where one of them discussed knowing some of the mybitcoin developers.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40417.msg506485#msg506485

Now that there is more solid evidence that the official version is a lie (as opposed to everyone just 'knowing' it)
.. it seems worthwhile pressing this guy for what he knows. 

Someone with a direct stake in the issue first - but potentially police should be asking him for information I think.

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January 10, 2012, 03:00:23 AM
 #30


As far as I'm concerned, MyBitcoin never had any stolen BTC.  The operator had BTC that a bunch of people gave him thinking that he would give them back.  Poor judgement and/or laziness and/or lack of understanding of Bitcoin/money/human nature.

'jav' has got some coins I gave him using  his instawallet.org service.  If he walks off with them, sad day for me, but I'm certainly not going to go crying to the police or bitcointalk or anyone else.  Nor am I going to hunt him down.  I've put a significant amount of thought into how to protect various of my assets, and those who cannot stand the heat should stay out of the Bitcoin kitchen until the system develops more in my opinion.

Unfortunately we are in a phase now where it is becoming less practical for people to protect themselves in the 'real' way (by running a bitcoin client) due to bloat, but as far as I am aware there are not any on-line wallet services which allow the customer to control their private keys.


Piper67
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January 10, 2012, 03:07:05 AM
 #31


As far as I'm concerned, MyBitcoin never had any stolen BTC.  The operator had BTC that a bunch of people gave him thinking that he would give them back.  Poor judgement and/or laziness and/or lack of understanding of Bitcoin/money/human nature.

'jav' has got some coins I gave him using  his instawallet.org service.  If he walks off with them, sad day for me, but I'm certainly not going to go crying to the police or bitcointalk or anyone else.  Nor am I going to hunt him down.  I've put a significant amount of thought into how to protect various of my assets, and those who cannot stand the heat should stay out of the Bitcoin kitchen until the system develops more in my opinion.

Unfortunately we are in a phase now where it is becoming less practical for people to protect themselves in the 'real' way (by running a bitcoin client) due to bloat, but as far as I am aware there are not any on-line wallet services which allow the customer to control their private keys.



Bullcrap, of course. If mybitcoin had billed itself as a site that might walk away with your bitcoins, you'd have a point (and they would've had no customers).

By your faulty logic, if my bank decides one day to not return me my money, I'd have no recourse. It is ONE way in which a society could be run, but it wouldn't be a very good place to live.
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January 10, 2012, 03:17:14 AM
 #32

Never trust companies to hang onto your bitcoin!  This was lesson #1 and a lot of people learned it with this fiasco.  The administrators of mybitcoin should lined up and shot.


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January 10, 2012, 03:22:19 AM
 #33

The operator had BTC that a bunch of people gave him thinking that he would give them back.  Poor judgement and/or laziness and/or lack of understanding of Bitcoin/money/human nature.
'jav' has got some coins I gave him using  his instawallet.org service. If he walks off with them, sad day for me, but I'm certainly not going to go crying to the police or bitcointalk or anyone else.  Nor am I going to hunt him down

Then let it be the poor judgement of the mybitcoin operators if they think all people are as lacking in balls and sense of fair play as you are.

Even if your vapid 'tough luck' sentiment was a reasonable one, it is astonishing that you'd advocate resigning yourself to being the victim before all avenues have been investigated.
It is not 'crying' to the police - it is using the tools at your disposal to protect and pursue your interests.




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tvbcof
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January 10, 2012, 03:35:47 AM
 #34


As far as I'm concerned, MyBitcoin never had any stolen BTC.  The operator had BTC that a bunch of people gave him thinking that he would give them back.  Poor judgement and/or laziness and/or lack of understanding of Bitcoin/money/human nature.

'jav' has got some coins I gave him using  his instawallet.org service.  If he walks off with them, sad day for me, but I'm certainly not going to go crying to the police or bitcointalk or anyone else.  Nor am I going to hunt him down.  I've put a significant amount of thought into how to protect various of my assets, and those who cannot stand the heat should stay out of the Bitcoin kitchen until the system develops more in my opinion.

Unfortunately we are in a phase now where it is becoming less practical for people to protect themselves in the 'real' way (by running a bitcoin client) due to bloat, but as far as I am aware there are not any on-line wallet services which allow the customer to control their private keys.



Bullcrap, of course. If mybitcoin had billed itself as a site that might walk away with your bitcoins, you'd have a point (and they would've had no customers).

By your faulty logic, if my bank decides one day to not return me my money, I'd have no recourse. It is ONE way in which a society could be run, but it wouldn't be a very good place to live.

My logic is fine...MyBitcoin.com patrons willingly sent their BTC to an address they did not control.  I'd question your logic, but you've not tried to produce any that I can see.

Your bank actually probably is walking off with your money, but in such a way that you do not recognize it.  When they do in a more noticable way (a-la MF Global) you have full recourse to whatever services are offered by the justice system in your jurisdiction.

I am attracted to Bitcoin because it does not rely on such organizations as the SEC and justice department for protection my assets.  The main thing I need to trust is verifyable source code, and that a decent majority of the user base choosing the right version.  I feel that I have much better visibility into and control over this than I do with more traditional monetary solutions.  In short, Bitcoin and various developers in the open source community have already given me (and you) much more reliable tools to protect ourselves than has our government...one just has to use them (or, again, stay out of the kitchen.)

I distinctly do NOT want state sponsered enforcement to be involved with Bitcoin, and if anything pisses me off it is that so many users were so nieve that they got themselves ripped off by MyBitcoin and put the system in danger of such things.


gnar1ta$
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January 10, 2012, 04:13:36 AM
 #35

I think if I was involved with mybitcoin and had just been caught in another lie, I would be posting something like how everyone was stupid and there is no place for law enforcement in Bitcoin. I'd really hate to have people talking about perusing legal action for me not stealing the coins they have given to me, which I clearly spelled out on my con website that they were just donating for my vacation in Fiji.

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
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January 10, 2012, 04:18:05 AM
 #36

As far as I'm concerned, MyBitcoin never had any stolen BTC.  <snipped a bunch of asinine comments>

Mental note.  Include tybcof in my personal list of potential scammers.

tybcof what is next?  Rationalizations on how rape isn't exactly rape?
Matthew N. Wright
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January 10, 2012, 04:38:18 AM
 #37

As far as I'm concerned, MyBitcoin never had any stolen BTC.  <snipped a bunch of asinine comments>

Mental note.  Include tybcof in my personal list of potential scammers.

tybcof what is next?  Rationalizations on how rape isn't exactly rape?

She deserved it I tell you!

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January 10, 2012, 04:59:35 AM
 #38

As far as I'm concerned, MyBitcoin never had any stolen BTC.  <snipped a bunch of asinine comments>

Mental note.  Include tybcof in my personal list of potential scammers.

That's your right.  I encourage you to consider everyone a potential scammer.  I do...and I very rarely get scammed unexpectedly.

tybcof what is next?  Rationalizations on how rape isn't exactly rape?

You go right ahead and rely on any government to protect you and your Bitcoin habit.  Lemme know how that works out for ya.


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January 10, 2012, 05:46:02 AM
 #39

The operator had BTC that a bunch of people gave him thinking that he would give them back.  Poor judgement and/or laziness and/or lack of understanding of Bitcoin/money/human nature.
'jav' has got some coins I gave him using  his instawallet.org service. If he walks off with them, sad day for me, but I'm certainly not going to go crying to the police or bitcointalk or anyone else.  Nor am I going to hunt him down

Then let it be the poor judgement of the mybitcoin operators if they think all people are as lacking in balls and sense of fair play as you are.

'fair play' could include a bullet in the head for 'Tom Williams'.  Aside from a small amount respect for his technical skills, the majority of the respect I have for him is that he had big enough balls to take that chance.  I would be saddened to see that happen mainly because it would reflect poorly on the Bitcoin community and draw extra attention to the negatives of it.

Even if your vapid 'tough luck' sentiment was a reasonable one, it is astonishing that you'd advocate resigning yourself to being the victim before all avenues have been investigated.
It is not 'crying' to the police - it is using the tools at your disposal to protect and pursue your interests.


Here's where I'm coming from on this.  The only way it is realistic to expect public resources to be sunk into getting people back the money they gave to MyBitcoin would be if we also invite (and demand) that they set up a regulatory framework to make sure that such a thing won't happen again and again and again.  I am sure I wouldn't grovel for this even if I had lost money on that scam.  But that's how I roll I guess...I am unusually prone to taking responsibility for my failures.

How many of you have anything resembling a legal receipt from MyBitcoin.  None?  Funny that.  Now you want Big Brother to have your back when you wouldn't take an interest in helping yourselves?  I bet a majority of the losers in this thing are Libertarian types who thought it was a really great thing that Bitcoin was not regulated.  Ironically I'm actually generally a big government socialist Liberal type.

How many of you feel that the government should spend a lot of resources trying to make whole all the people who handed over their life savings to the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh to buy his 80 Rolls Royces?  I would argue that it made more sense to fork over one's money to the Bhagwan than to 'Tom Williams'...at least people knew where to find him.


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January 10, 2012, 06:46:14 AM
 #40

The operator had BTC that a bunch of people gave him thinking that he would give them back.  Poor judgement and/or laziness and/or lack of understanding of Bitcoin/money/human nature.
'jav' has got some coins I gave him using  his instawallet.org service. If he walks off with them, sad day for me, but I'm certainly not going to go crying to the police or bitcointalk or anyone else.  Nor am I going to hunt him down

Then let it be the poor judgement of the mybitcoin operators if they think all people are as lacking in balls and sense of fair play as you are.

'fair play' could include a bullet in the head for 'Tom Williams'.  Aside from a small amount respect for his technical skills, the majority of the respect I have for him is that he had big enough balls to take that chance.  I would be saddened to see that happen mainly because it would reflect poorly on the Bitcoin community and draw extra attention to the negatives of it.

Even if your vapid 'tough luck' sentiment was a reasonable one, it is astonishing that you'd advocate resigning yourself to being the victim before all avenues have been investigated.
It is not 'crying' to the police - it is using the tools at your disposal to protect and pursue your interests.


Here's where I'm coming from on this.  The only way it is realistic to expect public resources to be sunk into getting people back the money they gave to MyBitcoin would be if we also invite (and demand) that they set up a regulatory framework to make sure that such a thing won't happen again and again and again.  I am sure I wouldn't grovel for this even if I had lost money on that scam.  But that's how I roll I guess...I am unusually prone to taking responsibility for my failures.

How many of you have anything resembling a legal receipt from MyBitcoin.  None?  Funny that.  Now you want Big Brother to have your back when you wouldn't take an interest in helping yourselves?  I bet a majority of the losers in this thing are Libertarian types who thought it was a really great thing that Bitcoin was not regulated.  Ironically I'm actually generally a big government socialist Liberal type.

How many of you feel that the government should spend a lot of resources trying to make whole all the people who handed over their life  to the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh to buy his 80 Rolls Royces?  I would argue that it made more sense to fork over one's money to the Bhagwan than to 'Tom Williams'...at least people knew where to find him.



You've made it clear you want no government involvement. Personally, I feel the same.

I still don't see how that prompts you to act as if neither fraud nor theft occurred here.

Just to get a hold on your complete view, what's your stance on, specifically, the legitimacy of voluntary options (like a bounty to out the owner of Mybitcoin?)

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
...
...
ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
...
The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
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