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Author Topic: Clash of the Titans  (Read 3405 times)
adamstgBit
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January 10, 2012, 07:04:40 AM
 #21

the bitcoin scented candle

and smell like BULLSHIT!!

 Cheesy

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Crypt_Current
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January 10, 2012, 07:17:09 AM
 #22

I figure it's someone with USD and no BTC that accidentally left a sell order at $6.00, and as soon as they executed buy up to $6.70, the sell order was executed with the newly received coins.



god, wouldn't you just feel like a total douche?
Yep, I have, several times in fact.  I think my biggest fuckup like this was a 300 btc buy, but thankfully the spread wasn't nearly so wide.

Ha and here I was all butthurt last night over accidentally selling nine coins at $7.  I think I can get over it much easier now, thanks guys.  :-)

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GeniuSxBoY
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January 10, 2012, 07:39:22 AM
 #23

I can understand someone making a critical error to their own demise once.


but twice? fuck no.


three times? not in this lifetime.




Something is up. I can smell it.
Bigpiggy01
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January 10, 2012, 07:55:06 AM
 #24

Quote
Something is up. I can smell it.

Just bitcoinica messing with the market so that A they don't have to execute limit orders close to market and B they're creating a spread to work. Think about how Zhoutong'd otherwise make any money in a more or less mono-directional market.


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January 10, 2012, 08:03:39 AM
 #25

You're absolutely right. Bitcoinica is most definitely the culprit. This manipulation never occurred before its presence and the site creator must have foreseen his masterfully crafted con way ahead of schedule. He's not a dumb guy and if anyone could do something inappropriate in front of our faces, it would be him.
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January 10, 2012, 08:07:18 AM
 #26

Its like someone with a machete clearing a path
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January 10, 2012, 08:07:41 AM
 #27

You're absolutely right. Bitcoinica is most definitely the culprit. This manipulation never occurred before its presence and the site creator must have foreseen his masterfully crafted con way ahead of schedule. He's not a dumb guy and if anyone could do something inappropriate in front of our faces, it would be him.

Yeah.... let's get the pitchforks!

Seriously guys, there are other possibilities here.  There are lots of people who profit from volatility.  We have to go through this phase before we can move on.  We won't have the next wave up until we lose the exuberance-paranoia cycle.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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GeniuSxBoY
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January 10, 2012, 08:08:55 AM
 #28

This is not about volatility.
bb113
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January 10, 2012, 08:14:43 AM
 #29

This is too crazy. Someone should get tux on IRC and figure out if theres something wrong on his end.
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January 10, 2012, 09:16:56 AM
 #30

If it is one person what would their motive be?

1. To declare his presence and might
2. To show price corridor which he think should be
3. To count the robots on the market

UPD:
4. He bought chunck of bitcoins without moving the price

Now I think its this. What do I know though.
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January 10, 2012, 09:39:17 AM
 #31

Start resources 5000 bitcoin / $5000

Start price: $6.50


If you buy 1 btc at $6.75
and sell 1 btc at $6.25

You now have 5000 bitcoin / $4999.50

That's a losing scenerio every time.

Even when you focus on the asymmetrical distribution of bid/asks, as long as 1 coin is bought on the right side of the starting price and as long as 1 coin is sold on the left side of the start price, you will lose money. We know they aren't using the asymmetry to profit because the buys and sells occur simultaneously.


The only instance I can come up with where you'd make money is by profiting from the number of transactions someone makes using your interface, i.e. Bitcoinica.

bb113
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January 10, 2012, 09:44:57 AM
 #32

Unless you expect the price to rise in the future, so are willing to take a loss for now in order to accumulate btc. It may still be cheaper than buying all at once or gradually.
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January 10, 2012, 09:50:47 AM
 #33

Crypt_Current
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January 10, 2012, 09:51:18 AM
 #34

Start resources 5000 bitcoin / $5000

Start price: $6.50


If you buy 1 btc at $6.75
and sell 1 btc at $6.25

You now have 5000 bitcoin / $4999.50

That's a losing scenerio every time.

Even when you focus on the asymmetrical distribution of bid/asks, as long as 1 coin is bought on the right side of the starting price and as long as 1 coin is sold on the left side of the start price, you will lose money. We know they aren't using the asymmetry to profit because the buys and sells occur simultaneously.


The only instance I can come up with where you'd make money is by profiting from the number of transactions someone makes using your interface, i.e. Bitcoinica.


I make that kind of "mistake" when I stop and restart my bot during price swings ... old bids / asks will be left in wrong places, and then may get filled when I'd rather them not, but... not large amounts by any means.
But then, my bot is not so sophisticated yet.

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bb113
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January 10, 2012, 10:23:06 AM
 #35

Now the bot ran out of money?

Crypt_Current
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January 10, 2012, 10:25:44 AM
 #36

Now the bot ran out of money?



No orders in the range for making money and no one cares to place any right now ;-)

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notme
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January 10, 2012, 10:30:14 AM
 #37

Someone hit it with a hammer.... it's stuck.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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bb113
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January 10, 2012, 10:40:09 AM
 #38

Now the bot ran out of money?


No orders in the range for making money and no one cares to place any right now ;-)

Can you explain this further? Im new.

*edit= got rid of big pic

Crypt_Current
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January 10, 2012, 10:50:14 AM
 #39

Now the bot ran out of money?


No orders in the range for making money and no one cares to place any right now ;-)

Can you explain this further? Im new.

*edit= got rid of big pic



Every sell order needs a buyer and every buy order needs a seller in order for a transaction to occur.  In order for profit to be made, you would ideally sell higher than the current highest bid and buy lower than the lowest ask.  So for example, right now (as far as i can tell) the lowest ask is 6.38, while the highest bid is 6.40, which is higher than the lowest ask.  So then when you put buy orders below that ask and sell orders above that bid, whether you do it manually or automatically, it's going to be hard to get those orders filled.

Some bots will keep running and put LOTS of buys and sells really really close together, some small (to test the price or whatever), and in these times where no one is really doing any trading, the bots will still trade pennies back and forth because their buys and sells touch every once in a while.

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bb113
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January 10, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
 #40

Now the bot ran out of money?


No orders in the range for making money and no one cares to place any right now ;-)

Can you explain this further? Im new.

*edit= got rid of big pic



Every sell order needs a buyer and every buy order needs a seller in order for a transaction to occur.  In order for profit to be made, you would ideally sell higher than the current highest bid and buy lower than the lowest ask.  So for example, right now (as far as i can tell) the lowest ask is 6.38, while the highest bid is 6.40, which is higher than the lowest ask.  So then when you put buy orders below that ask and sell orders above that bid, whether you do it manually or automatically, it's going to be hard to get those orders filled.

Some bots will keep running and put LOTS of buys and sells really really close together, some small (to test the price or whatever), and in these times where no one is really doing any trading, the bots will still trade pennies back and forth because their buys and sells touch every once in a while.

Makes sense, thanks.
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