Does anyone else feel like Bitcoin is a safe investment?

[right wing authoritarian]

I guess you could evaluate bitcoin just like any other asset. Ask three things, What is its return? What is its variance (risk)? and how are its returns correlated to other assets. Basically most assets these days are highly correlated. If you buy into the US stock market you are buying essentially the same asset as if you buy into any other market. If bitcoin is similarly highly correlated then it is just a risk return relationship. Think about it, if bitcoin is 10x as risky as the stock market and they are both highly correlated then you could invest in the stockmarket with 10:1 leverage and you would have the same asset as investing in bitcoin. Alternatively you could invest 10% in bitcoin and the rest in a basket of government bonds and you would have the same asset as the stock market. However if bitcoin is not highly correlated then you will have lowest risk if you invest in both assets. Correlation is the important thing not risk. A portfolio of many totally uncorrelated assets has virtually zero risk even if the individual assets are highly risky. Actually it is possibly that bitcoin is not very correlated to other conventional assets and that this is the reason for the high price because it makes sense to diversify any normal portfolio with bitcoin.

[gagalady]

Usually all profitable investments are risky at some point. If talking about bitcoin i think it's worth  investing in bitcoin if you have individual money for it because we all strongly believe that it will go up alot in a long term. But if you're about to sell your car and a house to invest your all money in it, DON'T DO IT.

[practicaldreamer]

The Trezor will be my bank - and Dark Wallet will ensure my anonymity. I shall buy my family - who hitherto have been sceptical - their own Trezor's or something very similar. People will slowly start to use a percentage of their Bitcoins for purchases. Others they will invest (via Ethereum perhaps ?)

   Bitcoin isn't going to go away. For my children BTC will be an "a priori" given - and the transition for them from fiat will be no big deal at all - they will have never used cash.

[BitChick]

The Trezor will be my bank - and Dark Wallet will ensure my anonymity. I shall buy my family - who hitherto have been sceptical - their own Trezor's or something very similar. People will slowly start to use a percentage of their Bitcoins for purchases. Others they will invest (via Ethereum perhaps ?)

   Bitcoin isn't going to go away. For my children BTC will be an "a priori" given - and the transition for them from fiat will be no big deal at all - they will have never used cash.

We will see cash in museums.  Our grandchildren will say, "What is that?" 

[zzojar]

It is a safer investment than investing in Microsoft. Digital currency is the future.

[Dr.Zaius]

You are worried about your tiny stash of fiat losing 5% annually, while bitcoin swings up to 30% in a given day. Bitcoin has lost almost 60% since January 1st before rebounding to losses of -40%. Yep believe in the blockchain.

The value is all over the map because of the poor liquidity. This is exacerbated by what the miners create everyday. ie 3600 coins roughly every 24hrs.

Bitcoin is not an investment because it produces nothing. Buying a bitcoin does not increase total wealth. Someone else now has your fiat. You are basically hoping a future individual comes to take you out of the trade.

[bryant.coleman]

It is a safer investment than investing in Microsoft. Digital currency is the future.

Too much of an exaggeration? Microsoft would have been a risky investment 20 years ago, not now. With so many products on their basket, including the hugely popular Windows, it will be outright lunacy to call Microsoft risky. Also, during the 2009-14 period, Microsoft has given around 120% return on the investment, in addition to annual dividend yield of around 2.8%.

[gagalady]

All my fiat's value is simply being eroded by inflation and if the UK government defaults on its huge amounts of debt, the £ could be worth next to nothing.

Yeah, Bitcoin fluctuates but the risk of a total collapse of Bitcoin seems less likely than fiat currencies when you think about it.

There are no safe profitable investments. We here investing in BTC all risk.

[zimmah]

You are worried about your tiny stash of fiat losing 5% annually, while bitcoin swings up to 30% in a given day. Bitcoin has lost almost 60% since January 1st before rebounding to losses of -40%. Yep believe in the blockchain.

The value is all over the map because of the poor liquidity. This is exacerbated by what the miners create everyday. ie 3600 coins roughly every 24hrs.

Bitcoin is not an investment because it produces nothing. Buying a bitcoin does not increase total wealth. Someone else now has your fiat. You are basically hoping a future individual comes to take you out of the trade.

of course it lost value since January, we're in a medium term dip.

The difference is that Bitcoin, in the long term, only goes up. While the dollar and all other fiat, in the long term only go down.

Who cares about a short term loss when you increase your money tenfold in a year. So shortsighted.

[devphp]

You are worried about your tiny stash of fiat losing 5% annually, while bitcoin swings up to 30% in a given day. Bitcoin has lost almost 60% since January 1st before rebounding to losses of -40%. Yep believe in the blockchain.

The value is all over the map because of the poor liquidity. This is exacerbated by what the miners create everyday. ie 3600 coins roughly every 24hrs.

Bitcoin is not an investment because it produces nothing. Buying a bitcoin does not increase total wealth. Someone else now has your fiat. You are basically hoping a future individual comes to take you out of the trade.

If you give an estimate how much fiat loses annually, you have to make calculations for bitcoin annually as well. So, let's say, January 1st is the date you pick for that, check the price on January 1st, 2015. You can't choose any arbitrary period less than 1 year and say the investment has lost or gained anything within that interval, because it'll be an irrelevant estimate.

[CurbsideProphet]

People, please stop the fuddery. US$ is NOT going to collapse, not tomorrow, not the day after. Sure, CNY will most likely replace it. SOMEDAY. We will all be licking Chinaman's balls for money. But, it won't be for a while longer.

If US$ were to collapse, do you know the consequences? Bitcoin will be the least of your worries, then.

It will collapse, why else is the USA fighting for oil? Oil and military are the only two things that are backing the value of the US dollar. The USA is losing their military supremacy and their 'monopoly' on oil.

The question is not if fiat will collapse, the question is when.

And what exactly is supporting the Euro?  A bunch of countries that can't come to an agreement on most monetary policies and several countries that have a HISTORY of defaulting (the US has never defaulted).  What exactly is supporting the yen?  An aging demographic and over a decade of stagnation?  I could go through the whole list of fiat and countries and poke holes in what is "supporting" them.  If you honestly think the USD will be the first to collapse, you need a few more economic classes.  If you honestly think ALL fiat will collapse and the world goes on like normal, you need your head checked.

[zimmah]

People, please stop the fuddery. US$ is NOT going to collapse, not tomorrow, not the day after. Sure, CNY will most likely replace it. SOMEDAY. We will all be licking Chinaman's balls for money. But, it won't be for a while longer.

If US$ were to collapse, do you know the consequences? Bitcoin will be the least of your worries, then.

It will collapse, why else is the USA fighting for oil? Oil and military are the only two things that are backing the value of the US dollar. The USA is losing their military supremacy and their 'monopoly' on oil.

The question is not if fiat will collapse, the question is when.

And what exactly is supporting the Euro?  A bunch of countries that can't come to an agreement on most monetary policies and several countries that have a HISTORY of defaulting (the US has never defaulted).  What exactly is supporting the yen?  An aging demographic and over a decade of stagnation?  I could go through the whole list of fiat and countries and poke holes in what is "supporting" them.  If you honestly think the USD will be the first to collapse, you need a few more economic classes.  If you honestly think ALL fiat will collapse and the world goes on like normal, you need your head checked.

All fiat money will eventually collapse. And to say the USA never defaulted is not entirely accurate.

First, we had the gold standard, were gold served as international currency and every currency was backed by gold.

Then the USA invented the scam known as the bretton woods system, on which the USA defaulted.

Now we have the petrodollar scheme, an even bigger scam, and the USA is close to defaulting on that.

It's not a race between which country had the best fiat though, because all fiat money is a scam and they are all doomed to fail. Put your trust in bitcoin, gold and silver, not in wordless paper.

It's quite sad really that you know fiat is backed by nothing at all, but you still believe in it, to the point where you even call me an idiot for thinking outside the box. Goes to show the power of indoctrination.

It's alright buddy, keep watching mind numbing TV series and keep voting on presidents, they only want the best for you. They will totally not take your rights away with lame excuses like counterterrorism and financial problems. Ah great America how glorious are you, you're the first and last empire that will last forever, and the first one to conquer the galaxy to spread it's glorious peace and democracy.

[Slingshot]

 

Re: Does anyone else feel like Bitcoin is a safe investment?
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Bitcoin is Digital Gold 2.0
================


 Nothing has recently outperformed Bitcoin for the last few years, ever since it's inception.

 Far too much is focused on short term noise and not on the long term Log Chart Trend line.

 Of course most don't even know what a log chart is and I for one am not going to spoon
feed dumb money.



Re: Does anyone else feel like Bitcoin is a safe investment?
=====================================

 Hell YES. It truly is Digital Gold 2.0, and is very likely to succeed far beyond the wildest
dreams of everyone. Wait, it already did that! But the Decentralized Monetary Revolution
is merely getting started now. This forces every government to behave much better with
their own currencies, or face capital flight out of their banana republic currency.


 DECENTRALIZED Digital Cryptocurrencies are a huge part of the future.

A revolutionary future. Way bigger than almost anyone can imagine!


 You Better get Bitcoin now!

Or you will almost surely wish you had.

Wait, you didn't get some a year ago? O my, o dear.

Well what the heck are you still waiting for?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



 Collapse is a relative term. Since April 2000 we have been in a slow motion collapse. The
dollar has lost most of it's value since then. Measured in Oil, Gold, and other commodities
too the dollar is over half way down from it's 1999 level. Same for almost every fiat
currency. There has been an international currency war, a race to devalue currencies,
a type of trade war, so that exports can stay high.

 We're in collapse fools (the one's claiming we're not, and there wont be one are idiots
and in complete denial, or out of touch from reality for whatever reason).

 From Japan to Europe to China to India to South America to North America we're almost
all in financial straights.

 Even wages have fallen for 14 years running. Standards of livings are falling.


 Already over 50 Trillion in new Debt has been blown since 2008 alone.  

 China just blew the  worlds biggest ever debt bubble from merely 6 years ago, with relatively
little to show for it at 23 Trillion and counting in China alone. Even with slave labor that mess
of a communist nightmare is going to end up dragging the entire world down with it from the
current looks of things. Just in case the reader didn't know the true facts about that giant
mirage called Red China. By the way, Never, ever, do business, or anything else, with what
are Communists (State Fascists). Same for Corporate Fascists, but that's us today in the
entire western world, much to the shock and horror of those that are still sleep walking.

 Most don't have nary a clue. Those that do try their best far too often to ignore or justify
things and make it so it's not a big deal.

 Any sudden calamity wont drag on and on. The countries that enter such a thing will simply
default, (renegotiate their debts, QE, etc) and bring on a new currency, or add zeros behind
their new peso style banana republic currency eventually. Life will go on, but we will all be
poorer for it. It wont drag out for a long period of time. It wont be the end of the world.
But we all will pay a very high price one way or another!

 America today is Amerika, and very soon Mexerika. Get used to having a much lower
standard of living in several more years time if things keep operating the way they have
been at the highest levels in major businesses and western governments.

 Not even Gunboat Diplomacy can save the Federal Reserve Notes (dollars). Their burnt
toast. A giant Joke. The 'new peso' being dumped by China, Russia, India, etc. In other
words no one wants them. Much the same for Euros but worse very soon. And for Yen too.
And almost every fiat currency. The world is currently awash in the biggest debt bubble in
all history. Get over it.

 The college grads today will still be paying for their obscenely overpriced education into
their 50's due to out of control greed and fraud. That doesn't bode well for the economy
at all for the next 30 years.

 Fiat currencies always have ended being worth exactly zero.

 The the current dollar wont prove to be any different.

 
 After the present dollar dies a new currency (dollar) will rise along side of Bitcoin (Gold 2.0).
And likely a vastly superior digital medium of exchange will end up co-existing with Bitcoin
which is a vastly superior Store of Value as well as a good (but not great) medium of exchange
imoo.

 Almost every western nation has gone bankrupt or ended up in serious default during
some point in the last century, even the USA during the 1930's.

 Every central bank eventually ends inc complete ruin of itself, and it's client nation state.
Face it, their not so bright, and certainly not the smartest bulbs in the room. But instead
merely cunning crooks and swindlers, as well as corrupting parasitical maggots.



Re: Does anyone else feel like Bitcoin is a safe investment?
=====================================

 ABSOLUTELY. Of course there is risk. Real Capitalism involves real risk. Don't risk too much. But do take risk, or you will surely be sorry you didn't take any risk at all, eventually. There is no rewarding of failure in real capitalism. Only wealthy elite parasites and their kind reward their own failures until they run out of rope. And that rope is running out fast...

 

Caveat emptor

[billysweird]

i dont think it is a safe investment
it is highly risk
and everyone should be causious

[BirdCoinV2]

Only buy btc what you can miss, btc might end up $2 or $200000 who knows..

[blatchcorn]

It is a safer investment than investing in Microsoft. Digital currency is the future.

Too much of an exaggeration? Microsoft would have been a risky investment 20 years ago, not now. With so many products on their basket, including the hugely popular Windows, it will be outright lunacy to call Microsoft risky. Also, during the 2009-14 period, Microsoft has given around 120% return on the investment, in addition to annual dividend yield of around 2.8%.

But Warren Buffet does not invest in Microsoft so it must be risky...

[precrime3]

The way you put it OP, yes safe investment. If your looking for safe investment, there's always gold and silver

[sboldwary]

Although these months has been really hard for the price of the bitcoin it show to us (well i consider in that way) that since i've started doing invesments wisely, the lost was in a low rate, and each new day there is more and more factories and stores using bitcoin as a way to make paymentes. In my opinion is safe.

[teukon]

All my fiat's value is simply being eroded by inflation and if the UK government defaults on its huge amounts of debt, the £ could be worth next to nothing.

Government default might be the best thing for the pound.  Without the debt, the incentive to debase the currency is diminished.

[STT]

Its not an investment, super simple answer to your question.   If you want to buy a load of Euros I will say the same thing, the coins have no innate value and no return.
 so what it is, is speculation on politics mostly.   A holding in a bank that pays interest is a kind of investment, in the old fashioned sense that risked the bank going broke and they lent your money; of course all money comes from gov now so scrap that.
   It is possible to get interest on BTC via some contracts, thats an investment and risky

it will be outright lunacy to call Microsoft risky

I would not say that, anyone can fail.   Look at Ericsson, worlds largest mobile maker and the shares lost alot of money

And to say the USA never defaulted is not entirely accurate.

Partial default if people prefer but obviously they changed terms, so thats a default like greece did on its debt or whatever.    If they even so little as raise the retirement age for state pension by a year, its a form of default