Save Gox

[hardpick]

I am sure Court and lawyers and banks  will take the bulk of 200,000  BTC

must be a silly idea that may work - would it be possible to crowd fund a new mtgox IE  127000 customer put in 5 BTC each and own 1/127000 of the new mtgox


or the 550K customers put in 1 BTC and get 1/550k share

bitcoin need a trust worthy exchange ---- at present the biggest exchanges are in locations that have very little regulations

[renfr]

I am sure Court and lawyers and banks  will take the bulk of 200,000  BTC

must be a silly idea that may work - would it be possible to crowd fund a new mtgox IE  127000 customer put in 5 BTC each and own 1/127000 of the new mtgox


or the 550K customers put in 1 BTC and get 1/550k share

bitcoin need a trust worthy exchange ---- at present the biggest exchanges are in locations that have very little regulations

Those who have less than 6.5 BTC (5BTC +30% from 200k BTC) will not put 5 BTC as they will be losers in that story.
Only 2163 creditors have over 6.5 BTC, you will just get 10815 BTC if they all give 5 BTC each.
Never gonna work, ever.

If I have 4 BTC, why would I give 5 to lose 1 when liquidation would give me back at most 1,2 BTC or in any case a positive output?

[zero3112]

So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.

[El Cabron]

So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.

[zero3112]

So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.

What did he plan on doing running a scam then he realized that there is no way to launder that massive amount of coins so he made up stuff.

[Nagle]

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.

Agreed. We should get one, too. That's what bankruptcy trustees do.

I suspect that this will eventually be resolved not by technical means, but by Mark Karpeles being arrested and interrogated by the Tokyo police.

[pblack4]

savegox and other similar initiatives are fine and very welcome. I applaud everyone involved in these projects.
But for bitcoin to survive we need to find the lost 650KBTC, not other new 650KBTC. We need to find out what happened in mtgox. We can consider it an accident at the very beginning of the bit coin story, but this may become a fatal one for bitcoin itself. 7% of the whole monetary mass cannot be considered an accident. It's totally unacceptable and bitcoin won't survive.
Everyone in the community has to realize that it's imperative to join forces to discover the truth and recover the stolen coins. It's not just to refund creditors, it's because 7% in wrong hands will influence the future of bitcoin and at the end will cause bitcoin to fail.

[hardpick]

I don't believe we ever find the missing bitcoins

see
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337




Bitcoin need a strong exchange to survive ---

[joehal]

It's a good idea.

[moni3z]

Sure help them start up again, but collectively get in writing a contract that charges a gigantic amount of interest on the coins they stole/owe you, at least 30%.

[bryant.coleman]

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.

Is there any chance of a neutral and professional audit happening before the likely liquidation of Mt Gox? Will the audit summary be published in public?

[renfr]

So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.

He was lying all the way. And just for that we can press charges on him for trying to cover up evidence, should be enough to send him to jail.

Beware Mark, japanese jails aren't funny at all : http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/08/world/prisons-in-japan-are-safe-but-harsh.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-40715/My-jail-nightmare-Sir-Paul.html

This is what japanese penal code says about suppressing evidence :

Article 104. (Suppression of Evidence)
A person who suppresses, damages, counter
feits or alters evidence relating to a
criminal case of another person, or who uses co
unterfeit or altered evidence, shall be
punished by imprisonment with work for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more
than 200,000 yen

Article 238. (Constructive Robbery)
When a person who has committed the crime of theft uses assault or intimidation
in order to retain the stolen property, evade arrest or destroy evidence, the person
shall be dealt with in the same manner as with robbery.
Article 236. (Robbery)
(1) A person who robs another of property through assault or intimidation commits
the crime of robbery and shall be puni
shed by imprisonment with work for a
definite term of not less than 5 years.
(2) The same shall apply to a person who obtains or causes another to obtain a
profit by the means proscribed under the preceding paragraph.

[QuestionAuthority]

So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.

He was lying all the way. And just for that we can press charges on him for trying to cover up evidence, should be enough to send him to jail.

Beware Mark, japanese jails aren't funny at all : http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/08/world/prisons-in-japan-are-safe-but-harsh.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-40715/My-jail-nightmare-Sir-Paul.html

This is what japanese penal code says about suppressing evidence :

Article 104. (Suppression of Evidence)
A person who suppresses, damages, counter
feits or alters evidence relating to a
criminal case of another person, or who uses co
unterfeit or altered evidence, shall be
punished by imprisonment with work for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more
than 200,000 yen

Article 238. (Constructive Robbery)
When a person who has committed the crime of theft uses assault or intimidation
in order to retain the stolen property, evade arrest or destroy evidence, the person
shall be dealt with in the same manner as with robbery.
Article 236. (Robbery)
(1) A person who robs another of property through assault or intimidation commits
the crime of robbery and shall be puni
shed by imprisonment with work for a
definite term of not less than 5 years.
(2) The same shall apply to a person who obtains or causes another to obtain a
profit by the means proscribed under the preceding paragraph.

Do we know it's now a criminal case or is it still a civil proceeding?  If it's criminal now then he's fucked. If it's settled as civil business his business is fucked but he'll walk away.

[El Cabron]

It is just civil as he wont do an audit.

[QuestionAuthority]

It is just civil as he wont do an audit.

The best thing that can happen is he will be removed from the oversight of the company or the company will be liquidated to settle debts. The settlement liquidation in most US cases is pennies on the dollar with largest creditors reaping the highest reward. It will be interesting to see how the government determines who is owed in a Bitcoin case. I bet the presiding magistrate is thinking, "Could my luck get any worse. How did I get stuck with this case."

[renfr]

Even if it's just civil it doesn't mean it cannot turn into a criminal case.
If there's enough evidence to believe that he was trying to conceal evidence or criminal activity then he could be convicted.
And IMO the mere fact that he claimed a hacker sneaked into the server and heisted 850k BTC and then weeks after 200k BTC suddenly appear out of nowhere is enough evidence to prove he was lying all the way.

[QuestionAuthority]

Even if it's just civil it doesn't mean it cannot turn into a criminal case.
If there's enough evidence to believe that he was trying to conceal evidence or criminal activity then he could be convicted.
And IMO the mere fact that he claimed a hacker sneaked into the server and heisted 850k BTC and then weeks after 200k BTC suddenly appear out of nowhere is enough evidence to prove he was lying all the way.

Let's see if we can somehow get you on the jury. lol

[El Cabron]

mark has still not filed for bankruptcy. he is sitting on millions in fiat in japan just lulzing at all of us suckers.

[Nagle]

It is just civil as he wont do an audit.

The best thing that can happen is he will be removed from the oversight of the company or the company will be liquidated to settle debts.

Karpeles was fired several days ago, when the court-appointed supervisor took over. As the court-appointed administrator put it, "The representative director of the Company has lost his authority to administer the Company’s assets pursuant to the order for provisional administration." When the bankruptcy trustee takes over, there will be an audit. That's standard.

[freedombit]

The criminal investigation is more promising. That money went somewhere, and the bankruptcy trustee's job is to find out where and get it back. Now that the Tokyo police and the Tokyo district court both suspect an inside job, and Karpeles has been fired, I suspect there will be progress.

Current status:

Community:  200,000 BTC and the malleability lie detected.

Court and lawyers: None.

Is there any chance this community will govern itself?