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Author Topic: BlackCoin BC POS Proof-of-Stake DETAILS?  (Read 1050 times)
human (OP)
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April 17, 2014, 05:28:35 PM
 #1

Hi Guys!
How does the POS work exactly in Blackcoin? Is it the same shit as with Peercoin? Or how does it solve the 'nothing-at-stake' problem?
Thanks for your qualified answer!
tacotime
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April 17, 2014, 05:30:25 PM
 #2

Hi Guys!
How does the POS work exactly in Blackcoin? Is it the same shit as with Peercoin? Or how does it solve the 'nothing-at-stake' problem?
Thanks for your qualified answer!

1) Direct port from PeerCoin, some of the parameters are tweaked a little (eg timestamps only valid for blocks within 10 min into future rather than 2 h).
2) Yes.
3) No.

rat4 insists the "nothing at stake" problem doesn't exist, which it won't until people start collaborating with each other and double spending.

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mr_random
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April 17, 2014, 05:31:15 PM
 #3

Coin age is at stake.
tacotime
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April 17, 2014, 05:36:51 PM
Last edit: April 17, 2014, 05:47:50 PM by tacotime
 #4

Coin age is at stake.

Observe case in which cartel using modified client agree to mine a chain in secret alongside the main chain, and to double spend at an agreed time.

For this cartel, there are almost no consequences for a double spend.  In the best case, they get their block reward and can double spend freely.  In the worst case, they perhaps miss their miniscule stake reward which is set at 1% a year, but still get to keep their accumulated coin age.  In the case of BlackCoin, this is even more severe as there is no upper limit to the influence of coinage on the ability to mine a block (whereas PeerCoin sets it to 90 days).

It's a case now of whoever gets to do the first doublespend on the BlackCoin network basically wins all the BTC in the buy orders, and the rest of everyone will be left being bagholders.

Bizarrely, rat4 set about breaking MintCoin which improperly implemented low reward PoW on top of PeerCoin PoS protocol while not bothering to address or fix any of the problems inherent in his own protocol.

Sunny King "fixed" this with centralized checkpointing.

BlackCoin has no real value above PeerCoin, and probably less of a value than even nxt... to be fair it probably made rat4 and friends a fat paycheck though.

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mr_random
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April 17, 2014, 07:04:18 PM
Last edit: April 17, 2014, 07:17:14 PM by mr_random
 #5

Coin age is at stake.

Observe case in which cartel using modified client agree to mine a chain in secret alongside the main chain, and to double spend at an agreed time.

For this cartel, there are almost no consequences for a double spend.  In the best case, they get their block reward and can double spend freely.  In the worst case, they perhaps miss their miniscule stake reward which is set at 1% a year, but still get to keep their accumulated coin age.  In the case of BlackCoin, this is even more severe as there is no upper limit to the influence of coinage on the ability to mine a block (whereas PeerCoin sets it to 90 days).

It's a case now of whoever gets to do the first doublespend on the BlackCoin network basically wins all the BTC in the buy orders, and the rest of everyone will be left being bagholders.

Bizarrely, rat4 set about breaking MintCoin which improperly implemented low reward PoW on top of PeerCoin PoS protocol while not bothering to address or fix any of the problems inherent in his own protocol.

Sunny King "fixed" this with centralized checkpointing.

BlackCoin has no real value above PeerCoin, and probably less of a value than even nxt... to be fair it probably made rat4 and friends a fat paycheck though.

You've said yourself that you have a sizeable investment in Peercoin so of course you will say that.

I disagree with any fears about Blackcoin mainly because you was fearmongering Peercoin very badly last year and it turned out to be all hot air. Thankfully I know a bullshitter when I see one and went ahead and bought lots and it paid off very handsomely.

The proof is in the pudding. 5000 to 10000 BTC worth of Blackcoin being traded on exchanges every day the last 3 days, if it was easy someone would do a double spend to win all the BTC in buy orders as you say. Can you explain to me why that hasn't happened?
tacotime
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April 17, 2014, 08:06:59 PM
 #6

You've said yourself that you have a sizeable investment in Peercoin so of course you will say that.

I disagree with any fears about Blackcoin mainly because you was fearmongering Peercoin very badly last year and it turned out to be all hot air. Thankfully I know a bullshitter when I see one and went ahead and bought lots and it paid off very handsomely.

The proof is in the pudding. 5000 to 10000 BTC worth of Blackcoin being traded on exchanges every day the last 3 days, if it was easy someone would do a double spend to win all the BTC in buy orders as you say. Can you explain to me why that hasn't happened?

PeerCoin is still pretty mangled, I bought it because it's the first implementation of Proof of Stake and because the reward algorithm constricts inflation when ASICs hit the network.  I predicted this correctly and profited off of it.

PeerCoin isn't breaking because (a) strong Proof of Work still exists and (b) centralized checkpointing.  You're welcome to go through the #bitcoin-wizards logs and read all the statements from people smarter than me tearing PeerCoin's PoS apart.

Doublespending hasn't happened because no one has written a client to do it yet, I suspect.  Additionally, it will be difficulty to doublespend if rat4 and friends are sitting on most of the BlackCoin themselves.

You get a different idea of the valuation of cryptocurrencies reading the commit log on github than you do from the pump and dump squad over in Announcements (Altcoins).  The only proof we have from high trading volume is that BlackCoin is the pump and dump of the month.

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mr_random
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April 17, 2014, 08:36:28 PM
 #7

No one has double spended yet according to you it's so easy to do so and there's thousands of BTC up for grabs. Anyone can see the hole in that solid logic  Cheesy

You should buy Blackcoin if you are going to base your decision on the coin supply. Even if you don't believe in it, simple logic suggests in the short term it will be profitable. The last new coin that got this much trading volume as quickly was doge, but blackcoin has minimal inflation in comparison. With the trading volume this big you could put 100BTC in and make a killing.

Well done with your prediction, I forecast massive growth for Peercoin way earlier back when it was a cent each. So I guess you can say I did pretty well out of it.
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April 17, 2014, 08:45:28 PM
 #8

Well done with your prediction, I forecast massive growth for Peercoin way earlier back when it was a cent each. So I guess you can say I did pretty well out of it.

I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all

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