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Author Topic: What is the acceptable level of premine for bounties?  (Read 1787 times)
Jamesco (OP)
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April 17, 2014, 07:07:11 PM
 #1

Just wondering when a new coin launches, how much of a premine is acceptable(by most of the community) if all the funds are going into development (meaning bounties and community?) Is any level acceptable?

5-3%? 1%? 0.5%?

0%?

If its as transparent as possible is it a small pre-mine generally accepted?
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April 17, 2014, 07:08:35 PM
 #2

Zero. 



You'll hear all kinds of counter-arguments, but they are all self-serving BS.  Stay away from premines and IPOs.  All of them.
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April 17, 2014, 07:11:41 PM
 #3

Zero. Devs should mine and offer their own coins away.

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April 17, 2014, 07:13:20 PM
 #4

Zero. Devs should mine and offer their own coins away.

This ^^

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April 17, 2014, 07:24:33 PM
 #5

Thanks for the replies. Concesus is 0% premine . Now my next question is how do you determine when a coin has had a fair launch? If he posts it on a crypto forum? Does it need a pre anouncement? Does he have to post it on btcointalk? or are a few other smaller forums are all thats needed?

What I'm getting at here, does this mean any decent dev should really invest into some mining gear? For example say a dev has put considerable time, money and effort into his coin and he wants to start offering bounties for community engagement. He now posts up his amazing coin and development plan, anounces it as many places as possible to make sure all know its fair. Goes to start mining and the difficulty is so high he can barely get coins for himself to pay for development or bounties compared with miners.

I'm not trying to justify a premine but I'm curious to know how most devs do this? Do they hide the worth of their coin earlier to stop miners mining easy coins at the start?
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April 17, 2014, 07:31:50 PM
 #6

Thanks for the replies. Concesus is 0% premine . Now my next question is how do you determine when a coin has had a fair launch? If he posts it on a crypto forum? Does it need a pre anouncement? Does he have to post it on btcointalk? or are a few other smaller forums are all thats needed?
A coin has had a fair launch when the value goes to the people who created that value. If a coin doesn't involve the creation of any value at all, then all distributions are equally fair. You can't unfairly divide a zero. The early Bitcoin miners created the value they gained from their mining by making Bitcoin secure and usable.

The focus in the crypto-currency community on *dividing* value rather than *creating* value is disturbing to me.

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April 17, 2014, 07:35:57 PM
Last edit: April 17, 2014, 07:47:37 PM by Amph
 #7

pre ann with a good launch time, not 5am for euro or others shit like that

also no KGW at start or stupid blocks value of 1, when real blocks are 5k, anti-instamine isn't needed if there is an ann

i like ninja launch too, as long as they are launched in a good time, again bad launch time is the worst thing ever, devs that launch at 3-4 am for euro/usa/other part of the world are just morons that want more instamine for themselves, usually they do this when the premine is 0%...
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April 17, 2014, 07:36:05 PM
 #8

Thanks for the replies. Concesus is 0% premine . Now my next question is how do you determine when a coin has had a fair launch? If he posts it on a crypto forum? Does it need a pre anouncement? Does he have to post it on btcointalk? or are a few other smaller forums are all thats needed?

What I'm getting at here, does this mean any decent dev should really invest into some mining gear? For example say a dev has put considerable time, money and effort into his coin and he wants to start offering bounties for community engagement. He now posts up his amazing coin and development plan, anounces it as many places as possible to make sure all know its fair. Goes to start mining and the difficulty is so high he can barely get coins for himself to pay for development or bounties compared with miners.

I'm not trying to justify a premine but I'm curious to know how most devs do this? Do they hide the worth of their coin earlier to stop miners mining easy coins at the start?

If your coin is really that good, there is no need for bounties and such. 0% Premine, that's it.
Even if you spent a lot of time on it, you can ask for donations. No premine.
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April 17, 2014, 07:36:11 PM
 #9

In addition to zero premine I think a coin should having a up-ramping in the block reward to give time for miners to come online.  Make the first week's worth of coins have a zero or very low block reward and then either step up or jump to the full initial block reward value.  This way it gives people a chance to get setup before the block rewards start.

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April 17, 2014, 07:46:44 PM
 #10

Thanks a lot, interesting replies. So say for example, a Dev had a pre-announcement but only gave the coin specifications, no future plans with a poor logo and then launched at a normal fair time. He had a lot of plans already but decided not to mention them. People would mine only with that information in mind. Then week by week the dev implemented some of his ideas. Updated it every week, slowly building value and community features into the coin. He then started updating the thread with his future plans, goals and timelines including updates he was making. In that same time frame he mined his coin enough to get some bounties going and a decent stack for himself, nothing crazy but he was trying to get a good chunk. Would this be considered a fair launch? Considering the value that is being given to the coin is from the Dev himself but slowly released in a manner which helped his poor mining rate?
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April 17, 2014, 07:58:59 PM
 #11

In my opinion a coin should be announced in advance with plenty of warning and given a specific launch time so everybody who wants in can get a fair start.

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April 17, 2014, 08:11:29 PM
 #12

Zero. 



You'll hear all kinds of counter-arguments, but they are all self-serving BS.  Stay away from premines and IPOs.  All of them.

+1
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April 17, 2014, 08:31:48 PM
 #13

0% pre-mine is the way miners will tell you it needs to be. All they care about is getting as many of the coins into their wallets as possible. Ohhh......the thought of devs being entitled to any of those coins get miners throthing at the mouth with rage.

The miners don't have to work hard to develop a coin, build a community, update the coin regularly, pay for nodes, pay other devs to have a look if things go seriously wrong, nor will they have to spend every spare minute of their time trying to making things a success. All they do is point their beastly PCs at a pool for a few days before they hop onto the next coin that takes their fancy.

If you want to do a premine then it's up to you, don't be taken in completely by what others have to say. I would suggest keep it very small - max 1%....maybe 2% but any higher is pushing it and you'll have a mutiny before you even get started and miners won't mine it unless it's something that is very innovative or suddenly becomes valuable.
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April 17, 2014, 08:41:00 PM
 #14

I think the zero premine argument is BS. I'm sorry but do you work for free? No? So why do you expect others to do so? I think a reasonable pre-mine is more than fair if the developer is going to put in a lot of work and maintain the coin and not just dump them and disappear (like many have.) Maybe a better solution is that the devs should provide the address the pre-mine coins are in and everyone can track them.

Honestly when fyrstrikken said he was going to change CryptoRush and add a requirement that devs provide a deposit equal to the amount they pre-mined, I thought it was a great idea. (I know he turned out to be a douche but that's besides the point.) We need some kind of way to prevent devs from dumping and running.
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April 17, 2014, 08:57:26 PM
 #15

I think the zero premine argument is BS. I'm sorry but do you work for free? No? So why do you expect others to do so? I think a reasonable pre-mine is more than fair if the developer is going to put in a lot of work and maintain the coin and not just dump them and disappear (like many have.) Maybe a better solution is that the devs should provide the address the pre-mine coins are in and everyone can track them.

Honestly when fyrstrikken said he was going to change CryptoRush and add a requirement that devs provide a deposit equal to the amount they pre-mined, I thought it was a great idea. (I know he turned out to be a douche but that's besides the point.) We need some kind of way to prevent devs from dumping and running.

Your argument is BS. Nobody asks the devs to put in the work, they do this off their own back. Think of it as a charity, only a charity that is diddling the books so they can get 'paid for their time'. You should make the coin because you want to and for the good of the community, but the devs of most alts only create the coin with one thing in mind: get rich quick. This is why 99% of alt coins fail. They don't give a fuck about the coin as long as they can make a quick buck off it.

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April 17, 2014, 09:00:18 PM
 #16

There is no acceptable level, acceptance only occurs when the premine is actually used and seen as development by the community.

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April 17, 2014, 09:11:34 PM
 #17

In my opinion, less than 2% pre-mine is required for bounties etc

Those that push 'zero premine' have no understanding of the implications of releasing a coin with zero blocks mined (and hence no pre-existing blockchain). We have seen this so many times before, where a 0% pre-mined coin has been announced and forked 20 different ways on launch as a result  Roll Eyes

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April 17, 2014, 09:34:40 PM
 #18

Thanks a lot, interesting replies. So say for example, a Dev had a pre-announcement but only gave the coin specifications, no future plans with a poor logo and then launched at a normal fair time. He had a lot of plans already but decided not to mention them. People would mine only with that information in mind. Then week by week the dev implemented some of his ideas. Updated it every week, slowly building value and community features into the coin. He then started updating the thread with his future plans, goals and timelines including updates he was making. In that same time frame he mined his coin enough to get some bounties going and a decent stack for himself, nothing crazy but he was trying to get a good chunk. Would this be considered a fair launch? Considering the value that is being given to the coin is from the Dev himself but slowly released in a manner which helped his poor mining rate?

That is completely fine, since he is mining at the same time as others.

I think the zero premine argument is BS. I'm sorry but do you work for free? No? So why do you expect others to do so? I think a reasonable pre-mine is more than fair if the developer is going to put in a lot of work and maintain the coin and not just dump them and disappear (like many have.) Maybe a better solution is that the devs should provide the address the pre-mine coins are in and everyone can track them.

Honestly when fyrstrikken said he was going to change CryptoRush and add a requirement that devs provide a deposit equal to the amount they pre-mined, I thought it was a great idea. (I know he turned out to be a douche but that's besides the point.) We need some kind of way to prevent devs from dumping and running.

That is BS. They create a coin because they want to, not because they expect some kind of reward. If your coin is really that good, you can ask for donations. I'm sure people will be tripping over each other to donate because of such a good coin.
What a selfish and greedy person you are.
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April 17, 2014, 10:05:01 PM
 #19

Your argument is BS. Nobody asks the devs to put in the work, they do this off their own back. Think of it as a charity, only a charity that is diddling the books so they can get 'paid for their time'. You should make the coin because you want to and for the good of the community, but the devs of most alts only create the coin with one thing in mind: get rich quick. This is why 99% of alt coins fail. They don't give a fuck about the coin as long as they can make a quick buck off it.

The devs of most alts are greedy and selfish  because the community is greedy and selfish. If most people here were honest and good, we would have honest coins. The crypto world is the Wild West.
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April 17, 2014, 10:19:33 PM
 #20

Your argument is BS. Nobody asks the devs to put in the work, they do this off their own back. Think of it as a charity, only a charity that is diddling the books so they can get 'paid for their time'. You should make the coin because you want to and for the good of the community, but the devs of most alts only create the coin with one thing in mind: get rich quick. This is why 99% of alt coins fail. They don't give a fuck about the coin as long as they can make a quick buck off it.

The devs of most alts are greedy and selfish  because the community is greedy and selfish. If most people here were honest and good, we would have honest coins. The crypto world is the Wild West.

Yeah. I wish the world were a peaceful place.
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