What is the acceptable level of premine for bounties?

[friendly]

1% would seem fair to me. I have no problem if a dev is upfront and wants some of the premine for himself either. I don't think most programmers should be expected to work for free.

[Ryota]

1% would seem fair to me. I have no problem if a dev is upfront and wants some of the premine for himself either. I don't think most programmers should be expected to work for free.

1% means nothing. It's easy to set a limit of 100 billion coins with a small block reward of 10 coins per block: 1%=1 billion.
and 1% is much more with a pos coin.

[esotericizm]

I was apart of the logicoin launch and I must say that it was one of the best launches I've ever been around for. Wallets posted 30 minutes before launch and password/source uploaded right on time. 0% premine and a ninja launch of sorts. Not to mention that there wasn't a single fork. I'm actually not that worried about premined coins but they don't get my faith at all and I usually look at them as pump and dumps because all it takes is some of that premine to move and the price gets destroyed very quickly.

The logicoin dev was apparently considering donations in order to get bounties out and thats the sort of dev I'd be happy to donate some coins too. Works hard and doesn't want money for themselves but only to see the coin survive. It astounds me that coins like that go unnoticed but then you have huge scams like stack/edge that get to 50 pages before launch.

Just my 2 cents and sorry if it seems like I'm talking up logicoin but its just the most recent example of a great launch I could think off but there have been plenty.

[Amph]

1% would seem fair to me. I have no problem if a dev is upfront and wants some of the premine for himself either. I don't think most programmers should be expected to work for free.

0.01 is fair

[shtako]

I dont see any problem with premines when they are announced and accounted for. The biggest problem by far is instamining. That is what you want to look for.

[NorrisK]

Depends on the time frame the total amount of coins is released. If it is released in 100 years, a 1% premine would equal 1 full year of mining for the dev.

Premine should be relative to the amount released in the initial development phase. You don't want the dev to run around with >50% of total coins during the first year. But if the release is faster, say 1 year, this 1% would be less than 10% of total coins very fast.

[KingSchultz]

Zero. And you'll get more support for it. If there must be a pre-mine, it should be 0.1% or less. The problem is that a 1% pre-mine seems small but can be an absolutely massive amount of coins depending on the reward structures. 1% is usually enough to dump a coin to death.

Plus, building a currency is a serious thing. A pre-mine sticks with it forever.

[marine4u]

If the premine has no purpose a coin should be 0 pre-mine. if there are reasons behind the pre-mine it is acceptable.

but what people do is they announce a coin 0% premine with a lame wordpress website and start mining for couple of weeks, premine it that way to make it look legit

there is one coin has not hit the exchange yet but will soon probably, basically 70% is mined by 3 miners in 6 weeks under the radar.

Also One word of advice, the level of scam is off the chart these days, do not even consider mining a new coin if the coin has no block explorer from day one to inspect the first mined blocks.

[Spoetnik]

none

-- This message brought to you by the Spoetnik Foundation™ --

[gondel]

Hi,
I think nothing as premine is acceptable for any coin if you want it to live long life. I am running away from premined coins

[marine4u]

The problem with 0 premine or low percentage premine coins is that, once the developer dumps his share to the market and cash outs,

He basically stops supporting the coin or gives minimal support out of pity,

it remains to be seen which Devs are going to stick with their project and give continued support and for what reasons.

In a time where Bitcoin is almost unable to pay salary to its own Devs, it will get more the difficulty for 0 premine coins to develop and stay ahead of the competition and pay for the expenses to keep up with the challenges ahead.

[hilariousandco]

The problem with 0 premine or low percentage premine coins is that, once the developer dumps his share to the market and cash outs,

He basically stops supporting the coin or gives minimal support out of pity,

it remains to be seen which Devs are going to stick with their project and give continued support and for what reasons.

In a time where Bitcoin is almost unable to pay salary to its own Devs, it will get more the difficulty for 0 premine coins to develop and stay ahead of the competition and pay for the expenses to keep up with the challenges ahead.

Of course you would say that. And it's usually the opposite. They dump the coins they premined and move on to the next shitcoin.

[TierNolan]

Of course you would say that. And it's usually the opposite. They dump the coins they premined and move on to the next shitcoin.

Having x% of the minting fee going to the original dev would create the right incentives.  The more successful the coin, the more valuable that 1%.

You could even set it up so that it is 1% starting 3 months from launch.  If another dev creates a modified client, then it shows that the 1% wasn't really needed in the first place.

[marine4u]

Of course you would say that. And it's usually the opposite. They dump the coins they premined and move on to the next shitcoin.

Having x% of the minting fee going to the original dev would create the right incentives.  The more successful the coin, the more valuable that 1%.

You could even set it up so that it is 1% starting 3 months from launch.  If another dev creates a modified client, then it shows that the 1% wasn't really needed in the first place.

That's a very good idea but has to be hard coded in to the client, very good. it must be in such a way that even the pools modify their code the peer2peer network would reject the solved blocks by the dishonest pools.

+1

[dogechode]

It's really funny to me to see all these replies that are like OMG OMG NO THAT'S BS! NO PREMINE! So far, the general argument is that they should not do pre-mines because they should just do it for free. Some douche even compared it to 'charity work' which was a real laugh for me.

News flash: there are no rules. If you don't like pre-mines, then you don't have to support those coins. Only problem is all you retards love btc and that was pre-mined like a motherfucker so you're basically a bunch of whining hypocrites.

Look I'm not a dev I just think it's insane that you people consider it somehow wrong or evil for a developer to want a return on something they built if it becomes successful. Are you all fucking socialists or something? I guess I just grew up with this silly notion that if someone creates something and it becomes successful, then they should get a good chunk of profit from that. Crazy me!

Also, if you notice, a lot of 'no pre-mine' coins were manipulated in some other way - either by instamining, or somewhat shady launch tactics enabling the dev and/or his friends to quickly mine some early blocks before the general population can begin, or even manipulating the price down and encouraging an early crash so the dev can buy in for pennies.

Just think about this logically for a second - if the developer has no vested interest in seeing the coin succeed and grow in value, how long is he going to hang around and keep fixing issues and supporting the coin?

[d5000]

I would accept coins with a premine of less than 0,1% in the case of coins with fixed cap, and 0,05% of the estimated supply after 1 year in case of coins with no fixed cap (e.g. PoW/PoS hybrids). 1% is way too much in my opinion (think of a multi-million market cap at bubbles), but I would not only accept 0.0000000%-premined coins.

[marine4u]

It's really funny to me to see all these replies that are like OMG OMG NO THAT'S BS! NO PREMINE! So far, the general argument is that they should not do pre-mines because they should just do it for free. Some douche even compared it to 'charity work' which was a real laugh for me.

News flash: there are no rules. If you don't like pre-mines, then you don't have to support those coins. Only problem is all you retards love btc and that was pre-mined like a motherfucker so you're basically a bunch of whining hypocrites.

Look I'm not a dev I just think it's insane that you people consider it somehow wrong or evil for a developer to want a return on something they built if it becomes successful. Are you all fucking socialists or something? I guess I just grew up with this silly notion that if someone creates something and it becomes successful, then they should get a good chunk of profit from that. Crazy me!

Also, if you notice, a lot of 'no pre-mine' coins were manipulated in some other way - either by instamining, or somewhat shady launch tactics enabling the dev and/or his friends to quickly mine some early blocks before the general population can begin, or even manipulating the price down and encouraging an early crash so the dev can buy in for pennies.

Just think about this logically for a second - if the developer has no vested interest in seeing the coin succeed and grow in value, how long is he going to hang around and keep fixing issues and supporting the coin?

I am the developer of Marinecoin so far I can safely say I spent over 100 BTC out of my own pocket, buy hey who is counting.
I am about to move Marinecoin into an office, because my wife is finally kicking me out of the house, pay rent hiring two programmers for extra help paid of course with real salary and a secretary, mninum requirements for now.
Running banners over the internet, constant code upgrades to the wallet and other projects that I am working on. with 4-5 hours of sleep a day the past 6 months just working on the Marinecoin project..
I paid over 10 BTC just last week to outsource mining hash power to get Marinecoin out of a difficulty spike.

I am fortunate enough to pay those things out my pocket, but to pay for them indefinitely without any support from the eco-system itself eventually should be considered insane.

Marinecoin Dev

[TierNolan]

That's a very good idea but has to be hard coded in to the client, very good. it must be in such a way that even the pools modify their code the peer2peer network would reject the solved blocks by the dishonest pools.

Right hard coded.  It would probably require that it is paid to the public key of the dev.

The point is that there is nothing stopping some other dev from forking the coin to one with no payout.  Users would have to decide which branch to support.

If the paid dev is doing a good job, they might decide to stay on the paying branch.

[djm34]

Understanding that good dev should be rewarded, why not instead of creating a premine, having a %tage of the reward of each block sent to the dev ?

[dogechode]

Understanding that good dev should be rewarded, why not instead of creating a premine, having a %tage of the reward of each block sent to the dev ?

I would be completely on board for something like that. But how would you stop them from continuing to collect payments if they just walked away from the coin? Carboncoin, flappy, stories, NYCoin, and like a million others right now are dealing with replacing the devs as the original ones disappeared or just effectively stopped working.